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Angel - Southbound
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Angel - Southbound
On 4 Feb 2007 15:52:48 -0800, "MIG" wrote:
On Feb 4, 11:09 pm, wrote: This is a good website just looking at the other pics http://richardrandall.fotopic.net/p15383925.html what line did this train used to be on? Its now used on the IOW I would assume that it was on the Bakerloo immediately before, but the most serviceable 1938 stock from the Northern and Bakerloo was probably gathered on the Bakerloo before withdrawal, so it could have been around a bit. I'm probably going to get this completely wrong but the 1938 stock was used primarily on the Bakerloo Line in the 1980s. I recall travelling on the last unit in service and catching it at Stonebridge Park. Now although they were supposed to be withdrawn from all LU use ISTR that a few trains made it across to the Northern Line and ran there for a further while until other stock could be spared - 62 stock from the Central?? I think 38 stock left the Northern before the fleet was transferred to Alstom control as part of the Northern Line PFI deal. 1938 stock was then transferred to the Isle of Wight to replace pre-38 stock (1923 stock?) that was running on the line. Now someone can come and correct the above ...... ;-) -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Angel - Southbound
On Feb 5, 7:08 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On 4 Feb 2007 15:52:48 -0800, "MIG" wrote: On Feb 4, 11:09 pm, wrote: This is a good website just looking at the other pics http://richardrandall.fotopic.net/p15383925.html what line did this train used to be on? Its now used on the IOW I would assume that it was on the Bakerloo immediately before, but the most serviceable 1938 stock from the Northern and Bakerloo was probably gathered on the Bakerloo before withdrawal, so it could have been around a bit. I'm probably going to get this completely wrong but the 1938 stock was used primarily on the Bakerloo Line in the 1980s. I recall travelling on the last unit in service and catching it at Stonebridge Park. Now although they were supposed to be withdrawn from all LU use ISTR that a few trains made it across to the Northern Line and ran there for a further while until other stock could be spared - 62 stock from the Central?? I think 38 stock left the Northern before the fleet was transferred to Alstom control as part of the Northern Line PFI deal. 1938 stock was then transferred to the Isle of Wight to replace pre-38 stock (1923 stock?) that was running on the line. Now someone can come and correct the above ...... ;-) Ah, you mean that the stuff that was revived for the Northern was the stuff that went to the IOW? By then it had all been withdrawn from the Bakerloo, so was probably ex-Bakerloo rather than ex-Northern (originally having all left the Northern by about 1977). But I don't know if the timing is right for that. I thought the IOW had got its trains straight from the Bakerloo much earlier. |
Angel - Southbound
On 5 Feb, 19:24, "MIG" wrote:
On Feb 5, 7:08 pm, Paul Corfield wrote: I'm probably going to get this completely wrong but the 1938 stock was used primarily on the Bakerloo Line in the 1980s. I recall travelling on the last unit in service and catching it at Stonebridge Park. Now although they were supposed to be withdrawn from all LU use ISTR that a few trains made it across to the Northern Line and ran there for a further while until other stock could be spared - 62 stock from the Central?? I think 38 stock left the Northern before the fleet was transferred to Alstom control as part of the Northern Line PFI deal. 1938 stock was then transferred to the Isle of Wight to replace pre-38 stock (1923 stock?) that was running on the line. Now someone can come and correct the above ...... ;-) Ah, you mean that the stuff that was revived for the Northern was the stuff that went to the IOW? By then it had all been withdrawn from the Bakerloo, so was probably ex-Bakerloo rather than ex-Northern (originally having all left the Northern by about 1977). But I don't know if the timing is right for that. I thought the IOW had got its trains straight from the Bakerloo much earlier.- Hide quoted text - From what I remember (memory may be faulty!) the 1983 (Batch 1) stock displaced around 15 trains of 1972MkII from the Jubilee to the Bakerloo, enabling withdrawal of all 1938 stock. This would have been between 1984-5, and would have left the Jubilee with mixed 1983/1972MkII; Bakerloo mixed 1959/1972MkII; Northern mixed 1959/1972MkI/the few 1956 and a couple of 1962; IOW with Standard Stock. Around 1986 passenger numbers were rising and 1983 Batch 2 was ordered from Metro-Cammell. As a short-term measure around half-a-dozen of the 1938 trains withdrawn, but still in bascially operational condition, were refreshed and put in service on the Northern as that was short of other suitable stock, I think in early 1987 - thus there had been a year or two without any 1938 stock running anywhere. When 1983 Batch 2 started to arrive stock was cascaded on a one-for- one basis: 1983 B 2 into service on Jubilee = 1972 Mk II to the Bakerloo = 1959 to the Northern = 1938 withdrawn. The last of the 1938 was finally withdrawn in Spring 1988 IIRC. Network SouthEast expressed interest in 1938 stock as this was happening, and the equivalent of 3 or 4 (LU formation) trains of 1938 stock went for comprehensive refurbishment resulting in 8/9 2-car NSE formations entering service on the Isle of Wight in 1990/1. The number of 1983 Batch 2 trains ordered was more than the 1938 stock to be replaced, and thus enabled some cars of 1972 Mk I to be taken from the Northern line and inserted in the middle of 1967 stock on the Victoria (where the lack of ATO equipment was not a problem), and with the reformation of the 1967 stock like this around 4 or 5 extra trains were added to the Victoria line fleet, and extra sheds/sidings added on the east side of Northumberland Park depot. Hope this confirms, clarifies and adds to the points already covered above - a little time-lapse animation would probably be the best way of explaining this quickly! |
Angel - Southbound
In article .com,
(MIG) wrote: On Feb 5, 7:08 pm, Paul Corfield wrote: On 4 Feb 2007 15:52:48 -0800, "MIG" wrote: On Feb 4, 11:09 pm, wrote: This is a good website just looking at the other pics http://richardrandall.fotopic.net/p15383925.html what line did this train used to be on? Its now used on the IOW I would assume that it was on the Bakerloo immediately before, but the most serviceable 1938 stock from the Northern and Bakerloo was probably gathered on the Bakerloo before withdrawal, so it could have been around a bit. I'm probably going to get this completely wrong but the 1938 stock was used primarily on the Bakerloo Line in the 1980s. I recall travelling on the last unit in service and catching it at Stonebridge Park. Now although they were supposed to be withdrawn from all LU use ISTR that a few trains made it across to the Northern Line and ran there for a further while until other stock could be spared - 62 stock from the Central?? I think 38 stock left the Northern before the fleet was transferred to Alstom control as part of the Northern Line PFI deal. 1938 stock was then transferred to the Isle of Wight to replace pre-38 stock (1923 stock?) that was running on the line. Now someone can come and correct the above ...... ;-) The IoW standard stock dated from 1923 to 1934. Ah, you mean that the stuff that was revived for the Northern was the stuff that went to the IOW? By then it had all been withdrawn from the Bakerloo, so was probably ex-Bakerloo rather than ex-Northern (originally having all left the Northern by about 1977). But I don't know if the timing is right for that. I thought the IOW had got its trains straight from the Bakerloo much earlier. Paul is right that the Northern 1938 revival followed its withdrawal from the Bakerloo. However I don't think all the stock converted for the IoW came from the Northern. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Angel - Southbound
On Feb 4, 7:17 pm, "Mizter T" wrote:
On 4 Feb, 18:03, "brixtonite" wrote: Angel station used to have lift access and a small island platform - like Clapham Common. The station was very overcrowded as development in the Islington area generated much more traffic. Similarly at Euston, where there used to be an island platform on the Bank branch. The arrangement was altered when the Victoria Line was built, and the southbound platform (Northern Line, Bank branch) is wider than normal as a result. Diagram of the changes athttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c7/Euston_tube_stati... -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) So Angel and Euston used to have island platforms, and Clapham Common and Clapham North still do: were there any other? Are there similar worries about safety at Clapham Common or Clapham North? I use them both with a fair frequency but haven't ever done so during the height of the rush hour. I still find that walking down the narrow island platform at either station a somewhat strange and unfamiliar experience (I'd say they're both about the same width as the Angel platform looks like in the photo). Presumably the station staff at the Claphams are well on the ball about monitoring potential overcrowding on the platforms. A friend of mine worked for the firm that designed the air conditioning for the new Angel station. He had a big hand in it and wnet down there many times while the work was in progress. I kept telling him to take a camera, but he never did. Neill |
Angel - Southbound
In message , Paul Corfield
writes A similar approach was used at London Bridge IIRC and the platforms here are different sizes for the Northern Line. All done when the Jubilee Line extension was built. The only tube island platforms on the Northern line in the 60s were Angel, Clapham North and Clapham Common. London Bridge didn't have an island platform, so were the distances between the wall and track not enough to give a full platform depth? -- Clive. |
Angel - Southbound
On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 16:46:16 +0000, "Clive Coleman."
wrote: In message , Paul Corfield writes A similar approach was used at London Bridge IIRC and the platforms here are different sizes for the Northern Line. All done when the Jubilee Line extension was built. The only tube island platforms on the Northern line in the 60s were Angel, Clapham North and Clapham Common. London Bridge didn't have an island platform, so were the distances between the wall and track not enough to give a full platform depth? There are loads of stations with island platforms - it's just that most of them have a huge chunk of structure or space between the platforms. I appreciate I'm being a tad pedantic here but they are conceptually the same as Angel and the Claphams. This is opposed to side platforms such as Snaresbrook or Warren St for the Northern Line. You then have tiered side platforms at places like Westminster (Jubilee Line) and Notting Hill Gate (Central Line). The reference to London Bridge was to say that the concept of creating a new tunnel and platform was used there in the same way as at Angel. London Bridge was woefully under capacity when only served by the Northern. Adding in the Jubilee Line derived interchange traffic would have made it unworkable so it was essential that more space was provided at the Northern Line level (as well as at ticket hall and circulating areas). -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Angel - Southbound
On 8 Feb, 17:09, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 16:46:16 +0000, "Clive Coleman." wrote: In message , Paul Corfield writes A similar approach was used at London Bridge IIRC and the platforms here are different sizes for the Northern Line. All done when the Jubilee Line extension was built. The only tube island platforms on the Northern line in the 60s were Angel, Clapham North and Clapham Common. London Bridge didn't have an island platform, so were the distances between the wall and track not enough to give a full platform depth? There are loads of stations with island platforms - it's just that most of them have a huge chunk of structure or space between the platforms. I appreciate I'm being a tad pedantic here but they are conceptually the same as Angel and the Claphams. This is opposed to side platforms such as Snaresbrook or Warren St for the Northern Line. You then have tiered side platforms at places like Westminster (Jubilee Line) and Notting Hill Gate (Central Line). The reference to London Bridge was to say that the concept of creating a new tunnel and platform was used there in the same way as at Angel. London Bridge was woefully under capacity when only served by the Northern. Adding in the Jubilee Line derived interchange traffic would have made it unworkable so it was essential that more space was provided at the Northern Line level (as well as at ticket hall and circulating areas). At London Bridge (and still at Bank) the wall between (or in the middle of the island) platorms was much thinner than at most similar stations. The difference at Angel was that both tracks and the island platform were in the same tunnel/arch, which seems to have remained in place, making the very wide platform that was first referred to. Something similar must have existed at Euston, but I never saw it. At London Bridge, you now have three similar tunnels rather than a big one and a small one (the middle one now being the passage). |
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