Non-terminus
 

Can anyone explain in two sentences why, if someone has a NR return ticket
from London-XXXXXX-London, which is valid for any route, they are not
allowed to leave at Farringdon?

Why is there discrimination on people leaving the network at a station
which is not a terminus. I don't understand it. Why is it not to any NR
station within Zone 1.

It doesn't affect me particularly, but I just don't get the logic in it.

Non-terminus
 

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 18:54:49 -0600, Tristán White wrote:

Can anyone explain in two sentences why, if someone has a NR return ticket
from London-XXXXXX-London, which is valid for any route, they are not
allowed to leave at Farringdon?

A ticket from London Terminals is a ticket from KXTL (for northbound
journeys) or City Thameslink (for southbound journeys). If you want to
extend the journey to/from Farringdon, you have to buy a more
expensive ticket to permit the extra travel.

Why is there discrimination on people leaving the network at a station
which is not a terminus. I don't understand it. Why is it not to any NR
station within Zone 1.

It doesn't affect me particularly, but I just don't get the logic in it.

If you want to make a longer journey, you have to pay a higher fare.
Is that so illogical?

Non-terminus
 

On Feb 16, 4:59 am, asdf wrote:
Can anyone explain in two sentences why, if someone has a NR return ticket
from London-XXXXXX-London, which is valid for any route, they are not
allowed to leave at Farringdon?

A ticket from London Terminals is a ticket from KXTL (for northbound
journeys) or City Thameslink (for southbound journeys). If you want to
extend the journey to/from Farringdon, you have to buy a more
expensive ticket to permit the extra travel.


But a London Terminals ticket *is* valid from St Albans to Moorgate,
isn't it?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Non-terminus
 

John B wrote:
On Feb 16, 4:59 am, asdf wrote:
Can anyone explain in two sentences why, if someone has a NR return ticket
from London-XXXXXX-London, which is valid for any route, they are not
allowed to leave at Farringdon?
A ticket from London Terminals is a ticket from KXTL (for northbound
journeys) or City Thameslink (for southbound journeys). If you want to
extend the journey to/from Farringdon, you have to buy a more
expensive ticket to permit the extra travel.


But a London Terminals ticket *is* valid from St Albans to Moorgate,
isn't it?

Nope. To be usable at Moorgate, it *MUST* be issued to London Thameslink
where possible (stations between West Hampstead Thameslink and Bedford).

Failing that, it has to be issued to Zone U1 (or the appropriate Zones
for a journey wholly within the Travelcard Area, which uses the
"Train-Tube" fares).

A Season Ticket would need to be issued either *specifically* to
Moorgate Underground *OR* to include Zone R12 as a minimum.

This applies for all journeys on the Thameslink route to/via Farringdon,
Barbican, Moorgate and Snow Hill Tunnel. Why, I'm not entirely sure.

Cheers,

Barry

Non-terminus
 

John B wrote:

On Feb 16, 4:59 am, asdf wrote:
Can anyone explain in two sentences why, if someone has a NR return ticket
from London-XXXXXX-London, which is valid for any route, they are not
allowed to leave at Farringdon?

A ticket from London Terminals is a ticket from KXTL (for northbound
journeys) or City Thameslink (for southbound journeys). If you want to
extend the journey to/from Farringdon, you have to buy a more
expensive ticket to permit the extra travel.


But a London Terminals ticket *is* valid from St Albans to Moorgate,
isn't it?


Barry Salter explains that this ain't so in his reply to your post.

Of course London Terminals tickets are valid at Moorgate for journeys
from/to the FCC Great Northern line.

Non-terminus
 

On Feb 16, 4:59 am, asdf wrote:
A ticket from London Terminals is a ticket from KXTL (for northbound
journeys) or City Thameslink (for southbound journeys). If you want to
extend the journey to/from Farringdon, you have to buy a more
expensive ticket to permit the extra travel.

What about a ticket, eg KXTL-Gatwick-KXTL, getting off at Farringdon
on the return leg.

If you want to make a longer journey, you have to pay a higher fare.
Is that so illogical?

In this case the journey would be shorter.
--
Rob

Non-terminus
 

On 16 Feb, 13:53, "Rob Hamadi" wrote:
On Feb 16, 4:59 am, asdf wrote:

A ticket from London Terminals is a ticket from KXTL (for northbound
journeys) or City Thameslink (for southbound journeys). If you want to
extend the journey to/from Farringdon, you have to buy a more
expensive ticket to permit the extra travel.

What about a ticket, eg KXTL-Gatwick-KXTL, getting off at Farringdon
on the return leg.

AFAIAA it'd be fine to use such a ticket to leave at Farringdon.

Non-terminus
 

Rob Hamadi wrote:
What about a ticket, eg KXTL-Gatwick-KXTL, getting off at Farringdon
on the return leg.

A ticket from Gatwick (or anywhere in the south) to London Terminals
only gets you as far as City Thameslink. You'd need a slightly more
expensive ticket to get to KXTL (or Farringdon), to cover the cross
London journey.

U

Non-terminus
 

Non-terminus
 

On 16 Feb, 12:44, "Mizter T" wrote:
But a London Terminals ticket *is* valid from St Albans to Moorgate,
isn't it?

Barry Salter explains that this ain't so in his reply to your post.

Of course London Terminals tickets are valid at Moorgate for journeys
from/to the FCC Great Northern line.

Right, I misremembered the details (I thought they were valid to
Moorgate but not to southern Thameslink and not intermediately at
Farringdon, which would have been insane and weird and therefore quite
plausible under the Routing Guide). Was that the case pre-Thameslink,
or were Moorgate and Farringdon viewed as London Terminals in those
days?

Just as well Moorgate Widened Lines is closing under Thameslink 2k+n,
otherwise there'd have been the entirely silly situation where a
ticket from Stevenage to London Terminals was valid on a direct train
to Moorgate via Highbury but not on a direct train to Moorgate via
Farringdon...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Non-terminus
 

On 16 Feb, 14:29, Michael Hoffman wrote:
Surely if Rob bought a return to Gatwick Airport at KXTL, they would
have sold him one that was valid.

Yes, but it wouldn't be a London Terminals ticket, which is the point
of this thread.

U

Non-terminus
 

On 16 Feb, 14:29, Michael Hoffman wrote:
wrote:
Rob Hamadi wrote:
What about a ticket, eg KXTL-Gatwick-KXTL, getting off at Farringdon
on the return leg.

A ticket from Gatwick (or anywhere in the south) to London Terminals
only gets you as far as City Thameslink. You'd need a slightly more
expensive ticket to get to KXTL (or Farringdon), to cover the cross
London journey.

Surely if Rob bought a return to Gatwick Airport at KXTL, they would
have sold him one that was valid.


Quite.

However I'm sure I've read a tale of someone being sold a plain
vanilla "London Terminals" ticket from a Southern ticket office
despite specifying they were heading to KXTL - i.e. the ticket office
made a mistake. However the ticket nonetheless got them through the
KXTL gates, seemingly because said gates were (are?) too liberal in
what tickets they accept. One explaination for this was simply that,
given the vast array of valid tickets that could be presented at KXTL,
it's pretty hard to program them exactly.

Of course if a "London Terminals" ticket from the south is wrongly
accepted at KXTL then this can only add to the confusion that
perpetually surrounds this issue!

Non-terminus
 

Non-terminus
 

On 16 Feb 2007 06:47:49 -0800, "John B" wrote:

insane and weird and therefore quite plausible under the Routing Guide

Possibly the best ever description of that document. :)

Non-terminus
 

On Feb 16, 3:48 pm, Michael Hoffman wrote:
wrote:
On 16 Feb, 14:29, Michael Hoffman wrote:
Surely if Rob bought a return to Gatwick Airport at KXTL, they would
have sold him one that was valid.

Yes, but it wouldn't be a London Terminals ticket, which is the point
of this thread.

But that's not what the question was about. Threads drift.

Indeed, though I should put my hands up to muddying the waters a
little. The reason I asked was that I clearly recall buying a return
to Gatwick at KXTL and, being a little late upon my return, deciding
to hop off at Farringdon and go straight to the office. When my ticket
failed to open the barrier the chap said that I wasn't really allowed
to detrain at Farringdon, but he'd let me off this once.

This puzzled me at the time, and still does...
--
Rob

Non-terminus
 

In ups.com,
Rob Hamadi typed:

On Feb 16, 3:48 pm, Michael Hoffman wrote:
wrote:

On 16 Feb, 14:29, Michael Hoffman wrote:

Surely if Rob bought a return to Gatwick Airport at KXTL, they
would have sold him one that was valid.

Yes, but it wouldn't be a London Terminals ticket, which is the
point of this thread.

But that's not what the question was about. Threads drift.

Indeed, though I should put my hands up to muddying the waters a
little. The reason I asked was that I clearly recall buying a return
to Gatwick at KXTL and, being a little late upon my return, deciding
to hop off at Farringdon and go straight to the office. When my ticket
failed to open the barrier the chap said that I wasn't really allowed
to detrain at Farringdon, but he'd let me off this once.

This puzzled me at the time, and still does...

The simple truth is that the chap was mistaken.



--
Bob

Non-terminus
 

On 16 Feb 2007 07:35:12 -0800, Mizter T wrote:

Surely if Rob bought a return to Gatwick Airport at KXTL, they would
have sold him one that was valid.

Quite.

However I'm sure I've read a tale of someone being sold a plain
vanilla "London Terminals" ticket from a Southern ticket office
despite specifying they were heading to KXTL - i.e. the ticket office
made a mistake.

IIRC the issue was to do with ticket machines (though it may be a
problem with ticket offices too). There are specific fares to KXTL
from many stations in the Southern area (routed "Not Underground" or
"FCC Only"), at slightly higher fares than those to London Terminals.

However, when you buy one of these from certain types of ticket
machine, the ticket gets printed incorrectly; they print the correct
price and route, but "London Terminals" as the destination.

Of course if a "London Terminals" ticket from the south is wrongly
accepted at KXTL then this can only add to the confusion that
perpetually surrounds this issue!

....and this is probably why the problem hasn't been properly
identified/corrected yet. (Although it may have been corrected by
now.)