On Feb 26, 4:19 pm, "Richard J." wrote:
MIG wrote:
On Feb 26, 10:08 am, "Joe Patrick"
wrote:
Given that London is a major international tourist destination,
and having noticed many tourists staring in bewilderment at the
line diagrams in the trains, I think it's likely that many
passengers do appreciate being told the next station name in
advance. There are many examples of over-provision in
announcements, but this isn't one of them.

But if you're going somewhere, do you just get on a train and hope
someone will announce where you've got to get off? Whenever I've
been somewhere I've researched in a guide book or online to find
the nearest station. It's rather like announcing where you can
change for other lines, surely you'd plan your journey beforehand
and work out yourself where you've got to change.

Or, looking at it another way, if you didn't know where any of the
lines went without an announcement, it wouldn't be any use to be
told that you could change to one of them, because you wouldn't
know if it took you where you wanted to go.

I can't see any point in any of the announcements, apart from the
ones reminding you that the next station is closed and other
variations from the published service.

I found it helpful to be told that Notting Hill Gate was the next stop
today, having been engrossed in Metro for several stations. Seriously,
all you are saying is that you know your way around without any help.
Thousands aren't so fortunate.



I am saying nothing of the sort. I thought I was quite clear that I
thought that these kind of announcements don't help.

Let's imagine that I am in Paris. I get on a train on Line 4 without
knowing what line my destination station is on or where to change.

How would it help me to hear an announcement that I am at a station
with a French name where I can change to line 6?

In real life, I would have found out what line my destination was on
and where to change, and I would recognise the place from seeing its
name written on a station sign, having looked at the diagram and
noticed as I passed the stop before.

I would generally be much more attentive to diagrams and passing
stations in Paris than I am in London, because I don't know my way
about. I would not make much attempt at understanding any
announcements.

MIG wrote:
On Feb 26, 4:19 pm, "Richard J."
wrote:
MIG wrote:
On Feb 26, 10:08 am, "Joe Patrick"
wrote:
Given that London is a major international tourist destination,
and having noticed many tourists staring in bewilderment at the
line diagrams in the trains, I think it's likely that many
passengers do appreciate being told the next station name in
advance. There are many examples of over-provision in
announcements, but this isn't one of them.

But if you're going somewhere, do you just get on a train and
hope someone will announce where you've got to get off? Whenever
I've been somewhere I've researched in a guide book or online to
find the nearest station. It's rather like announcing where you
can change for other lines, surely you'd plan your journey
beforehand and work out yourself where you've got to change.

Or, looking at it another way, if you didn't know where any of the
lines went without an announcement, it wouldn't be any use to be
told that you could change to one of them, because you wouldn't
know if it took you where you wanted to go.

I can't see any point in any of the announcements, apart from the
ones reminding you that the next station is closed and other
variations from the published service.

I found it helpful to be told that Notting Hill Gate was the next
stop today, having been engrossed in Metro for several stations.
Seriously, all you are saying is that you know your way around
without any help. Thousands aren't so fortunate.

I am saying nothing of the sort. I thought I was quite clear that I
thought that these kind of announcements don't help.

You made it clear that the announcements don't help *you*.

Let's imagine that I am in Paris. I get on a train on Line 4
without knowing what line my destination station is on or where to
change.

How would it help me to hear an announcement that I am at a station
with a French name where I can change to line 6?

Barbès Rochechouart, in fact, and of course it wouldn't help if you
hadn't done *any* preparation.

In real life, I would have found out what line my destination was on
and where to change, and I would recognise the place from seeing its
name written on a station sign, having looked at the diagram and
noticed as I passed the stop before.

Yes, yes, we know you understand all these things and are terribly well
organised and intelligent, but please don't assume that all visitors or
occasional passengers are like that. My experience is that many people
look at the Tube map at the start of the journey, and can see that they
need, say, the Piccadilly, then the Bakerloo, but may not notice or
remember the name of the interchange station. I've also seen many
people who may manage eventually to work things out from the Tube map,
but do appreciate having things confirmed by announcements or fellow
passengers.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

MIG wrote:

Let's imagine that I am in Paris. I get on a train on Line 4 without
knowing what line my destination station is on or where to change.

How would it help me to hear an announcement that I am at a station
with a French name where I can change to line 6?

It would help if you were blind or visually impaired. A lot.
--
Michael Hoffman

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, Michael Hoffman wrote:

MIG wrote:

Let's imagine that I am in Paris. I get on a train on Line 4 without
knowing what line my destination station is on or where to change.

How would it help me to hear an announcement that I am at a station
with a French name where I can change to line 6?

It would help if you were blind or visually impaired. A lot.

How exactly? May i suggest you read the original question again?

tom

--
They didn't have any answers - they just wanted weed and entitlement.

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, Michael Hoffman wrote:

MIG wrote:

Let's imagine that I am in Paris. I get on a train on Line 4 without
knowing what line my destination station is on or where to change.

How would it help me to hear an announcement that I am at a station
with a French name where I can change to line 6?

It would help if you were blind or visually impaired. A lot.

How exactly? May i suggest you read the original question again?

I sometimes get on a train without knowing the exact details of the rest
of my journey, figuring them out en route. I figure them out on the
train. A visually impaired person could do the same with a braille map.
I believe you can order a braille map of the Paris Metro from the
Association Valentin Hauey.

The case where the person knows that the destination station is on line
6 but doesn't know the interchange point is much more likely I think. In
this case an announcement would be as useful as the interchange points
being on strip maps.

This branch of the thread was started by Keith Raeburn complaining that
"announcing every station name in advance, despite everybody coping
perfectly well without LU doing so before" was "over-provision." It
should now be obvious that this is not true.
--
Michael Hoffman

On Mon, Feb 26, 2007 at 08:05:19PM +0000, Michael Hoffman wrote:

The case where the person knows that the destination station is on line
6 but doesn't know the interchange point is much more likely I think. In
this case an announcement would be as useful as the interchange points
being on strip maps.

Nonsense. If all I know is that my destination is on the Picadilly
line, I'm not going to get on a random train at (say) Victoria) and hope
it's going in the right direction. That way lies Brixton and Upminster
and other forms of depravity. No, I'm going to look at the damned map.

That said, I do like announcements like "the next station is Green Park"
because it tells me to extract myself from whatever trash sci-fi I'm
reading that day.

--
David Cantrell | Nth greatest programmer in the world

Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human.
At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear
shoes, bathe and not make messes in the house.
-- Robert A Heinlein

David Cantrell wrote:
On Mon, Feb 26, 2007 at 08:05:19PM +0000, Michael Hoffman wrote:

The case where the person knows that the destination station is on line
6 but doesn't know the interchange point is much more likely I think. In
this case an announcement would be as useful as the interchange points
being on strip maps.

Nonsense. If all I know is that my destination is on the Picadilly
line, I'm not going to get on a random train at (say) Victoria) and hope
it's going in the right direction. That way lies Brixton and Upminster
and other forms of depravity. No, I'm going to look at the damned map.

Yes, but I didn't going to say what *you* were going to do. You probably
don't need a message telling you to take your belongings when you leave
the train either. The announcements aren't designed for David Cantrell.

In any case, it is easy enough to know which direction to go at the
start (through instructions or otherwise) but forget which station you
want to change at en route. I know when I waas initially unfamiliar with
the Tube, I got on a train in the right direction but then sometimes
forgot my interchange station. The difference between a blind person and
me is that I could still look it up on the strip map inside the train.
--
Michael Hoffman

On Tue, Feb 27, 2007 at 11:34:54AM +0000, Michael Hoffman wrote:
David Cantrell wrote:
Nonsense. If all I know is that my destination is on the Picadilly
line, I'm not going to get on a random train at (say) Victoria) and hope
it's going in the right direction. That way lies Brixton and Upminster
and other forms of depravity. No, I'm going to look at the damned map.
Yes, but I didn't going to say what *you* were going to do. You probably
don't need a message telling you to take your belongings when you leave
the train either. The announcements aren't designed for David Cantrell.

So who the hell *are* they designed for?

A tourist who doesn't know the system is at Victoria and wants to go to
Covent Garden. Does *he* get on a random train? No. He looks at the
map or asks someone for help. Because I distinctly remember there not
being any announcements at Victoria saying "if you want Covent Garden
take the Victoria line northbound and change at Green Park for an
eastbound Picadilly line train. If you want Baker Street, take the
Victoria line northbound to Oxford Circus and change for a northbound
Bakerloo line train, although you might like to take the bus instead.
Sit on the top deck, at the front and you'll get a great view of Marble
Arch as you go past".

Frankly I'm not at all sure who the announcements about luggage are for.
They're sure as hell not going to deter the one group of people who *do*
deliberately leave their stuff on trains. I refer, of course, to
litter-louts.

--
David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence

You don't need to spam good porn