What might have happened here then - have the BBC described the incident
correctly, or were the brakes applied by the operation of the tripcock?
Surely the Camden town junctions don't allow trains in opposite directions
to meet, thats the whole point of all the branch tunnels...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6751809.stm

Paul

On Jun 14, 1:34 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
What might have happened here then - have the BBC described the incident
correctly, or were the brakes applied by the operation of the tripcock?
Surely the Camden town junctions don't allow trains in opposite directions
to meet, thats the whole point of all the branch tunnels...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6751809.stm

Paul


The Service (Line) Controller made a Code Red to the trains in the
area.

It was a re-numbering of trains that didn't quite go to plan.

"chunky munky" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 14, 1:34 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
What might have happened here then - have the BBC described the incident
correctly, or were the brakes applied by the operation of the tripcock?
Surely the Camden town junctions don't allow trains in opposite
directions
to meet, thats the whole point of all the branch tunnels...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6751809.stm

Paul


The Service (Line) Controller made a Code Red to the trains in the
area.

It was a re-numbering of trains that didn't quite go to plan.


Presumably a 'Code Red' is an emergency stop. Does a 'renumbering' include
trains reversing short of original destination or something? Was this as
scary as the BBC suggest then, or was it protected by the signalling system?

Paul

On Jun 14, 1:56 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"chunky munky" wrote in message

oups.com...



On Jun 14, 1:34 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
What might have happened here then - have the BBC described the incident
correctly, or were the brakes applied by the operation of the tripcock?
Surely the Camden town junctions don't allow trains in opposite
directions
to meet, thats the whole point of all the branch tunnels...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6751809.stm

Paul

The Service (Line) Controller made a Code Red to the trains in the
area.

It was a re-numbering of trains that didn't quite go to plan.

Presumably a 'Code Red' is an emergency stop. Does a 'renumbering' include
trains reversing short of original destination or something? Was this as
scary as the BBC suggest then, or was it protected by the signalling system?

Paul


Sorry I didn't explain it properly. A Code Red is for all trains to
stop immediatly.
The signalling system did not prevent this from happening.
The re-numbering involved the train still heading in the same
direction, but to a different destination, as part of a re-numbering
with another train (that also had its number and destination changed)

"chunky munky" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 14, 1:56 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"chunky munky" wrote in message

oups.com...



On Jun 14, 1:34 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
What might have happened here then - have the BBC described the
incident
correctly, or were the brakes applied by the operation of the
tripcock?
Surely the Camden town junctions don't allow trains in opposite
directions
to meet, thats the whole point of all the branch tunnels...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6751809.stm

Paul

The Service (Line) Controller made a Code Red to the trains in the
area.

It was a re-numbering of trains that didn't quite go to plan.

Presumably a 'Code Red' is an emergency stop. Does a 'renumbering'
include
trains reversing short of original destination or something? Was this
as
scary as the BBC suggest then, or was it protected by the signalling
system?

Paul


Sorry I didn't explain it properly. A Code Red is for all trains to
stop immediatly.
The signalling system did not prevent this from happening.
The re-numbering involved the train still heading in the same
direction, but to a different destination, as part of a re-numbering
with another train (that also had its number and destination changed)


From RAIB web site:

"At approx 17:35 hrs a northbound Northern Line train was incorrectly
signalled into the High Barnet platform at Camden Town when it was scheduled
to go to Edgware. To minimise passenger delay the following High Barnet
train was signalled into the Edgware platform, and arrangements were made to
exchange passengers and crews between the two trains. When the train in the
High Barnet platform was ready to depart it set off in a southerly direction
for a short distance; the driver saw the lights of the next northbound
train, which was standing at a signal, and stopped the train."

A nice clear explanation for the layman

Paul S

Paul Scott quotes the RAIB web site:

"At approx 17:35 hrs a northbound Northern Line train was incorrectly
signalled into the High Barnet platform at Camden Town when it was scheduled
to go to Edgware. To minimise passenger delay the following High Barnet
train was signalled into the Edgware platform, and arrangements were made to
exchange passengers and crews between the two trains. When the train in the
High Barnet platform was ready to depart it set off in a southerly direction
for a short distance; the driver saw the lights of the next northbound
train, which was standing at a signal, and stopped the train."

On the Toronto subway system, it happens fairly regularly that the crew on
one train will swap places with the crew on a train going the other way.
I assume this is done in order that a crew without enough time remaining
on-shift to work a full return trip can do a partial one and still finish
at the right place. The TTC uses two-person crews, the guard riding two
cars from the rear of each train and becoming the driver when the train
reverses. So the swap-over is fairly fast if the trains reach the station
at the same time *and* it's one where the layout allows the crew members to
easily reach the opposite platform; otherwise it can take several minutes.

Is it also a common practice in London for drivers to swap between trains
for this reason? If so, it is easy to see how a mental lapse could cause
this near-accident: a driver who changes en route to the train on the
"opposite" platform is usually going to proceed the other way, but in this
specific case it was the same way, not the other way.

I remember another case in London of a near-accident due to an incorrect
reversal. As I recall, this was on the Piccadilly Line at King's Cross
St. Pancras, maybe around 1990. A driver was told to unload his passengers
and reverse on the crossover, but he thought that he'd already passed the
crossover before entering the station. So instead of pulling forward with
the empty train to clear the points and then reversing, he reversed in the
station. The signalling system did not prevent this unusual error, but
the driver of the following train saw him coming and pinched the Drico
wires to cut off the power and prevent a crash.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "To err is human, but to error requires a computer."
| -- Harry Lethall

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Paul Scott wrote:
From RAIB web site:

"At approx 17:35 hrs a northbound Northern Line train was
incorrectly signalled into the High Barnet platform at Camden Town
when it was scheduled to go to Edgware. To minimise passenger
delay the following High Barnet train was signalled into the
Edgware platform, and arrangements were made to exchange passengers
and crews between the two trains. When the train in the High
Barnet platform was ready to depart it set off in a southerly
direction for a short distance; the driver saw the lights of the
next northbound train, which was standing at a signal, and stopped
the train."

I'm interested in the arrangements for exchanging passengers and crews
between the two trains. Were the doors left open on both trains during
this time? If so, are drivers allowed to leave their trains
unsupervised while they carry out the swap? I didn't think so, in which
case wouldn't it need a member of the station staff to "look after" the
train, and hand over to the new driver when he arrived?

Also, wouldn't the train have been left in northbound mode, with red
lights to the rear and white lights at the front? Would it need a
conscious change of that directional set-up to be able to drive
southbound from the rear cab?
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:27:32 +0100, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

From RAIB web site:

"At approx 17:35 hrs a northbound Northern Line train was incorrectly
signalled into the High Barnet platform at Camden Town when it was scheduled
to go to Edgware. To minimise passenger delay the following High Barnet
train was signalled into the Edgware platform, and arrangements were made to
exchange passengers and crews between the two trains. When the train in the
High Barnet platform was ready to depart it set off in a southerly direction
for a short distance; the driver saw the lights of the next northbound
train, which was standing at a signal, and stopped the train."

A nice clear explanation for the layman

Does that mean the driver got in the cab at the wrong end of the
train?

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...
What might have happened here then - have the BBC described the incident
correctly, or were the brakes applied by the operation of the tripcock?
Surely the Camden town junctions don't allow trains in opposite directions
to meet, thats the whole point of all the branch tunnels...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6751809.stm

Paul


I had the same thought, initially. Then I remembered a map I had seen of
the Camden Town junction. I think you will find that the configuration
simply does not permit two trains into the same tunnel in different
directions. I suspect that what happened is that as one train approached
the merge point another train was alredy occupying the track going in the
same direction but from the "other" branch.

On 14 Jun, 13:34, "Paul Scott" wrote:
What might have happened here then - have the BBC described the incident
correctly, or were the brakes applied by the operation of the tripcock?
Surely the Camden town junctions don't allow trains in opposite directions
to meet, thats the whole point of all the branch tunnels...

Yes. But there's nothing to stop a driver getting into a train and
setting off in the wrong direction. There was no SPAD in the
conventional sense.

BRB Class 465.