On Wed, 4 Jul 2007, Graeme Wall wrote:

In message
"Peter Masson" wrote:

"sweek" wrote in message
oups.com...

Wouldn't it be relatively cheap to lengthen the platforms even
further? With the high level of overcrowding now and even more
passengers using the route in the future, it seems like it will be
needed. 8 coaches seems like a good number indeed.

Getting a 4-coach platform length at Willesden High level will be
expensive, but do-able. To get 8 coaches here, because of the junction
with the City Goods Line, the only place is on a bridge over the WCML.

Not sure i buy that. How far is the junction from the present platforms?

To build it you'd probably need a lengthy closure of the WCML.

Prefabricate the bridge off-site and swing it into position at three
o'clock on a Sunday morning, minimum closure time needed.

Took the words right out of my fingers - if it's good enough for Bishop's
Bridge, it's good enough for the NLL.

More of a problem is inserting it into the NNL without causing chaos the
following Monday morning.

Split the NLL into Stratford - Kensal Rise and Richmond - Acton Central
bits while sorting out the bridge? AIUI, most of the demand is to the east
of WJ anyway. Not ideal, but it'd only be for a fortnight.

tom

--
Do more with less -- R. Buckminster Fuller

On Wed, 4 Jul 2007 18:38:11 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Wed, 4 Jul 2007, Graeme Wall wrote:

In message
"Peter Masson" wrote:

"sweek" wrote in message
oups.com...

Wouldn't it be relatively cheap to lengthen the platforms even
further? With the high level of overcrowding now and even more
passengers using the route in the future, it seems like it will be
needed. 8 coaches seems like a good number indeed.

Getting a 4-coach platform length at Willesden High level will be
expensive, but do-able. To get 8 coaches here, because of the junction
with the City Goods Line, the only place is on a bridge over the WCML.

Not sure i buy that. How far is the junction from the present platforms?

The junctions should be far enough away but expansion in either
direction from Willesden Junction High Level involves intruding into
space occupied by bridges. I would have thought that the easier option
would be expansion northwards (possibly with some realignment) over
the DC line involving two new (or one wide) short bridges rather than
messing about with the relatively recently-installed bridge over the
WCML.
snip

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Wed, 4 Jul 2007 18:38:11 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Wed, 4 Jul 2007, Graeme Wall wrote:

In message
"Peter Masson" wrote:

"sweek" wrote in message
oups.com...

Wouldn't it be relatively cheap to lengthen the platforms even
further? With the high level of overcrowding now and even more
passengers using the route in the future, it seems like it will
be needed. 8 coaches seems like a good number indeed.

Getting a 4-coach platform length at Willesden High level will be
expensive, but do-able. To get 8 coaches here, because of the
junction with the City Goods Line, the only place is on a bridge
over the WCML.

Not sure i buy that. How far is the junction from the present
platforms?

The junctions should be far enough away but expansion in either
direction from Willesden Junction High Level involves intruding into
space occupied by bridges. I would have thought that the easier
option would be expansion northwards (possibly with some
realignment) over the DC line involving two new (or one wide)
short bridges rather than messing about with the relatively
recently-installed bridge over the WCML.

I agree. A quick measurement on Google Earth of the westbound/down
platform, which is on the inside of the curve and therefore with less
room for extension, shows the current platform as about 72 m long, but
with room for expansion to at least 200 m before the gap between the
tracks gets too narrow for an island platform.

I'm not sure which is the "junction with the City Goods Line" that Peter
Masson mentioned, but the nearest junction east of WJ High Level is
Kensal Green junction which is about 400 m from the High Level
platforms.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 23:24:39 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Wed, 4 Jul 2007 18:38:11 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Wed, 4 Jul 2007, Graeme Wall wrote:

In message
"Peter Masson" wrote:

"sweek" wrote in message
oups.com...

Wouldn't it be relatively cheap to lengthen the platforms even
further? With the high level of overcrowding now and even more
passengers using the route in the future, it seems like it will
be needed. 8 coaches seems like a good number indeed.

Getting a 4-coach platform length at Willesden High level will be
expensive, but do-able. To get 8 coaches here, because of the
junction with the City Goods Line, the only place is on a bridge
over the WCML.

Not sure i buy that. How far is the junction from the present
platforms?

The junctions should be far enough away but expansion in either
direction from Willesden Junction High Level involves intruding into
space occupied by bridges. I would have thought that the easier
option would be expansion northwards (possibly with some
realignment) over the DC line involving two new (or one wide)
short bridges rather than messing about with the relatively
recently-installed bridge over the WCML.

I agree. A quick measurement on Google Earth of the westbound/down
platform, which is on the inside of the curve and therefore with less
room for extension, shows the current platform as about 72 m long, but
with room for expansion to at least 200 m before the gap between the
tracks gets too narrow for an island platform.

I'm not sure which is the "junction with the City Goods Line" that Peter
Masson mentioned, but the nearest junction east of WJ High Level is
Kensal Green junction which is about 400 m from the High Level
platforms.

The City Goods Line is the line leaving the WCML west of WJ which
passes over the DC line (bridge 26B?), then to the north of WJ DC line
platforms and joins the NLL to the east of the bridge with the
bendybus on it. IIRC "Kensal Green Junction" covers the general area
where the City Goods Line joins the NLL on the north side and the City
Lines (from WJ New station) join on the south side. If Google Earth
ever gets a TARDIS mode you would also see a large signal box and a
few sidings in the area if you were able to wind back about 25 years.

On Thu, 5 Jul 2007, Charles Ellson wrote:

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 23:24:39 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Wed, 4 Jul 2007 18:38:11 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Wed, 4 Jul 2007, Graeme Wall wrote:

In message
"Peter Masson" wrote:

"sweek" wrote in message
oups.com...

Wouldn't it be relatively cheap to lengthen the platforms even
further? With the high level of overcrowding now and even more
passengers using the route in the future, it seems like it will
be needed. 8 coaches seems like a good number indeed.

Getting a 4-coach platform length at Willesden High level will be
expensive, but do-able. To get 8 coaches here, because of the
junction with the City Goods Line, the only place is on a bridge
over the WCML.

Not sure i buy that. How far is the junction from the present
platforms?

The junctions should be far enough away but expansion in either
direction from Willesden Junction High Level involves intruding into
space occupied by bridges. I would have thought that the easier
option would be expansion northwards (possibly with some
realignment) over the DC line involving two new (or one wide)
short bridges rather than messing about with the relatively
recently-installed bridge over the WCML.

I agree. A quick measurement on Google Earth of the westbound/down
platform, which is on the inside of the curve and therefore with less
room for extension, shows the current platform as about 72 m long, but
with room for expansion to at least 200 m before the gap between the
tracks gets too narrow for an island platform.

I'm not sure which is the "junction with the City Goods Line" that Peter
Masson mentioned, but the nearest junction east of WJ High Level is
Kensal Green junction which is about 400 m from the High Level
platforms.

The City Goods Line is the line leaving the WCML west of WJ which
passes over the DC line (bridge 26B?), then to the north of WJ DC line
platforms and joins the NLL to the east of the bridge with the
bendybus on it.

Quail just calls it the 'City Line', and puts the junction at 5 miles and
10 chains on the NLL, the platforms being at 5 miles 39 chains; 29 chains
is 583 metres. I don't know where on the platforms the 5:39 point is, and
there is a point before the junction where the down City crosses the up
NL. There's also a junction with what Quail calls the 'New' line, the link
from the DC lines to the NLL that Charles calls the City Line, at 5:13.
And, as Richard mentioned, not all of that distance is wide enough for
platforms anyway.

IIRC "Kensal Green Junction" covers the general area where the City
Goods Line joins the NLL on the north side and the City Lines (from WJ
New station) join on the south side.

Quail seems to use it that way. Although there's also a Kensal Green
Junction on the WCML next door!

tom

--
DO NOT WANT!

Tom Anderson wrote:

Quail just calls it the 'City Line', and puts the junction at 5 miles
and 10 chains on the NLL, the platforms being at 5 miles 39 chains;
29 chains is 583 metres. I don't know where on the platforms the 5:39
point is, and there is a point before the junction where the down
City crosses the up NL. There's also a junction with what Quail calls
the 'New' line, the link from the DC lines to the NLL that Charles
calls the City Line, at 5:13. And, as Richard mentioned, not all of
that distance is wide enough for platforms anyway.

There's also the fact that the signalling is currently at the end of the
platform and would need to be moved nearer to the junction if the platforms
were extended that way, retaining the required overlap, for safety reasons.

Jack Taylor wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote:

Quail just calls it the 'City Line', and puts the junction at 5 miles
and 10 chains on the NLL, the platforms being at 5 miles 39 chains;
29 chains is 583 metres. I don't know where on the platforms the 5:39
point is, and there is a point before the junction where the down
City crosses the up NL. There's also a junction with what Quail calls
the 'New' line, the link from the DC lines to the NLL that Charles
calls the City Line, at 5:13. And, as Richard mentioned, not all of
that distance is wide enough for platforms anyway.

There's also the fact that the signalling is currently at the end of
the platform and would need to be moved nearer to the junction if the
platforms were extended that way, retaining the required overlap, for
safety reasons.

The up station starter would obviously need to be moved to the end of the
extended platform, but Kensal Green Junction is already protected by another
signal (HL 1106) nearer the junction.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On Jul 5, 12:24 am, "Richard J." wrote:

I agree. A quick measurement on Google Earth of the westbound/down
platform, which is on the inside of the curve and therefore with less
room for extension, shows the current platform as about 72 m long, but
with room for expansion to at least 200 m before the gap between the
tracks gets too narrow for an island platform.

If you view the station on MS Live Local or Flashearth you will find
each platform conveniently occupied by a 313. You'll also see that
things don't appear to be quite as bad as has been suggested.