Camera like sensors on top of traffic lights
 

They look like cameras. Think on the side is printer FB Detection
(FireBrigade?). Are they testing to see if there are any cars at the
lights before turning red ? These lights do seem particularly short if
there are no cars and I'm on bicycle attempting to get to them before
turning amber.

Any ideas on how they work or how to make them work for me ?

Camera like sensors on top of traffic lights
 

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:09:24 +0100, David Cowie
wrote:

They look like cameras. Think on the side is printer FB Detection
(FireBrigade?). Are they testing to see if there are any cars at the
lights before turning red ? These lights do seem particularly short if
there are no cars and I'm on bicycle attempting to get to them before
turning amber.

Any ideas on how they work or how to make them work for me ?

They are detectors which use microwaves to 'see traffic' and adjust
accordingly. Microwaves get reflected by moving metal objects. They
don't work well if traffic is generally very slow moving.

Microwave detectors are replacing inductive loop detectors.

Rob.
Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Camera like sensors on top of traffic lights
 

Robert Woolley wrote:
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:09:24 +0100, David Cowie
wrote:


They look like cameras. Think on the side is printer FB Detection
(FireBrigade?). Are they testing to see if there are any cars at the
lights before turning red ? These lights do seem particularly short if
there are no cars and I'm on bicycle attempting to get to them before
turning amber.

Any ideas on how they work or how to make them work for me ?


They are detectors which use microwaves to 'see traffic' and adjust
accordingly. Microwaves get reflected by moving metal objects. They
don't work well if traffic is generally very slow moving.

Microwave detectors are replacing inductive loop detectors.
Lets get the baco foil out and have some fun :-)

Camera like sensors on top of traffic lights
 

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 01:01:40 GMT, Chris p
wrote:

Robert Woolley wrote:
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:09:24 +0100, David Cowie
wrote:


They look like cameras. Think on the side is printer FB Detection
(FireBrigade?). Are they testing to see if there are any cars at the
lights before turning red ? These lights do seem particularly short if
there are no cars and I'm on bicycle attempting to get to them before
turning amber.

Any ideas on how they work or how to make them work for me ?


They are detectors which use microwaves to 'see traffic' and adjust
accordingly. Microwaves get reflected by moving metal objects. They
don't work well if traffic is generally very slow moving.

Microwave detectors are replacing inductive loop detectors.

Lets get the baco foil out and have some fun :-)

Seems that might be the only way I can get the light to change ! How
about a foil vest :)

Bit annoying waiting at the light (for it to change) knowing that
there's no way to activate a sensor and wait for a car to approach
before it'll change.

BTW the location is Surbiton. These sensors have a connecting wire
into the top of the light behind the red light.

gone are the days of laying a bike down in the road over the sensor :)

Camera like sensors on top of traffic lights
 

"Colin McKenzie" wrote in message
...
Peter Fox wrote:
Following on from David Cowie's message. . .
Seems that might be the only way I can get the light to change ! How
about a foil vest :)

Bit annoying waiting at the light (for it to change) knowing that
there's no way to activate a sensor and wait for a car to approach
before it'll change.

They are _speed_ sensitive with a cut-off at about 15mph. Complain to
the appropriate highway authority who should be able to tweak it to
cotton on to your approach..

Meanwhile, since bikes are traffic too, if it doesn't detect you it's a
failed traffic signal within the meaning of the act. This means, once
you're sure it's ignoring you and isn't set to change anyway at some
point, you can ignore it too (treat it as a give way).

I had a traffic light fail to turn green late one night (I was in my car).
I'd taken a wrong turning at a set of traffic lights into a cul-de-sac. When
I had turned round, the traffic lights that would have let me out again had
stuck on red (in my direction). After waiting about two minutes, during
which there was no traffic approaching the junction from any direction, I
thought "bugger this for a lark" and cautiously edged forward, checking for
oncoming traffic. Blow me, just after I'd cleared the junction, a police car
suddenly appeared from my right and pulled me over for ignoring a traffic
light, on the grounds that if his light was green, mine must have been red.
I suggested that he might like to check the state of the lights. At first he
didn't believe me, but I persisted. Even after he had checked and found that
I was telling the truth, he wasn't happy and examined my documents and my
car very carefully to see if there was any rule on which he could "get" me.
Sadly for him (and fortunately for me), my lights were all working, my tyres
had good tread and I'd got my licence, insurance and MOT certificate on me
as I'd just bought a new tax disc that day.

Camera like sensors on top of traffic lights
 

Following on from David Cowie's message. . .

Seems that might be the only way I can get the light to change ! How
about a foil vest :)

Bit annoying waiting at the light (for it to change) knowing that
there's no way to activate a sensor and wait for a car to approach
before it'll change.

They are _speed_ sensitive with a cut-off at about 15mph. Complain to
the appropriate highway authority who should be able to tweak it to
cotton on to your approach..

gone are the days of laying a bike down in the road over the sensor :)


--
PETER FOX Not the same since the pancake business flopped
2 Tees Close, Witham, Essex.
Gravity beer in Essex http://www.eminent.demon.co.uk

Camera like sensors on top of traffic lights
 

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:30:12 +0100, Robert Woolley
wrote:


They are detectors which use microwaves to 'see traffic' and adjust
accordingly. Microwaves get reflected by moving metal objects. They
don't work well if traffic is generally very slow moving.

So why does anyone think they are useful in London?

--
Peter Lawrence

Camera like sensors on top of traffic lights
 

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 11:19:12 +0000 (UTC), Tim Woodall
wrote:

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 06:48:58 GMT,
Peter Lawrence wrote:
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:30:12 +0100, Robert Woolley
wrote:


They are detectors which use microwaves to 'see traffic' and adjust
accordingly. Microwaves get reflected by moving metal objects. They
don't work well if traffic is generally very slow moving.

So why does anyone think they are useful in London?

My experiments with the ones near me suggest that the sensors are
responsive to both the echo size and speed. In the car I can
get them to trigger at any speed but on the bike I can't stop pedalling
until the point I need to brake hard for the junction. I've had a
few hard stares from pedestrians waiting to cross who clearly think
I hadn't seen either them or the lights until the last possible
moment. 20-25mph seemed to be the trigger speed I needed to be at
in order to trip the lights and still have time to stop.
(the junction is currently being "redesigned" so it will be
interesting to see what happens in the future)


Microwave detectors tend not to be used in central London where
traffic speeds are low.

Their principal advantage over loop detectors is that they don't
suffer the problems of utitilities destroying them when carrying out
maintenance work.

Detectors can be set to be sensitive to cyclists. Close to where I
live, a jogging pedestrian in the carriageway can trigger a detector
at one lightly used of traffic signals.


Rob.

--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Camera like sensors on top of traffic lights
 

"Robert Woolley" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 11:19:12 +0000 (UTC), Tim Woodall
wrote:

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 06:48:58 GMT,
Peter Lawrence wrote:
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:30:12 +0100, Robert Woolley
wrote:


They are detectors which use microwaves to 'see traffic' and adjust
accordingly. Microwaves get reflected by moving metal objects. They
don't work well if traffic is generally very slow moving.

So why does anyone think they are useful in London?

My experiments with the ones near me suggest that the sensors are
responsive to both the echo size and speed. In the car I can
get them to trigger at any speed but on the bike I can't stop pedalling
until the point I need to brake hard for the junction. I've had a
few hard stares from pedestrians waiting to cross who clearly think
I hadn't seen either them or the lights until the last possible
moment. 20-25mph seemed to be the trigger speed I needed to be at
in order to trip the lights and still have time to stop.
(the junction is currently being "redesigned" so it will be
interesting to see what happens in the future)


Microwave detectors tend not to be used in central London where
traffic speeds are low.

Their principal advantage over loop detectors is that they don't
suffer the problems of utitilities destroying them when carrying out
maintenance work.

Detectors can be set to be sensitive to cyclists. Close to where I
live, a jogging pedestrian in the carriageway can trigger a detector
at one lightly used of traffic signals.


Rob.

--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

I regularly trigger them when out running here in Edinburgh. They detect
bikes very easily.

Camera like sensors on top of traffic lights
 

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 11:19:12 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be Tim
Woodall wrote this:-

My experiments with the ones near me suggest that the sensors are
responsive to both the echo size and speed. In the car I can
get them to trigger at any speed but on the bike I can't stop pedalling
until the point I need to brake hard for the junction.

Then they are defective.

(the junction is currently being "redesigned" so it will be
interesting to see what happens in the future)

Time to ask the council what they are doing to make the lights work.
No doubt they have a cycling policy you can quote.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

Camera like sensors on top of traffic lights
 

Colin McKenzie wrote:
Peter Fox wrote:
Following on from David Cowie's message. . .
Seems that might be the only way I can get the light to change ! How
about a foil vest :)

Bit annoying waiting at the light (for it to change) knowing that
there's no way to activate a sensor and wait for a car to approach
before it'll change.

They are _speed_ sensitive with a cut-off at about 15mph. Complain
to the appropriate highway authority who should be able to tweak it
to cotton on to your approach..

Meanwhile, since bikes are traffic too, if it doesn't detect you it's
a failed traffic signal within the meaning of the act. This means,
once you're sure it's ignoring you and isn't set to change anyway at
some point, you can ignore it too (treat it as a give way).

Colin McKenzie

Yeah but most traffic lights will go through their sequence (and thus give a
green light to all exits) eventually ... they just give priority to the
major route and take ages to get around to the minor route when they have no
external influences (i.e. the sensors) telling them someone is waiting on
the minor route.

Besides, these traffic-light-top sensors detect me on my push bike fine -
but then I'm a big fat guy ... whoohoo, there are some advantages!

Camera like sensors on top of traffic lights
 

On Sun, 17 Aug, I@n-N wrote:

Yeah but most traffic lights will go through their sequence (and thus give a
green light to all exits) eventually ... they just give priority to the
major route and take ages to get around to the minor route when they have no
external influences (i.e. the sensors) telling them someone is waiting on
the minor route.

Not in my experience. The lights on teh one-way system near me sit at
all-directions-red, with no sequence at all, unless they detect
something. Convenient in a car, because they get to green quicker
than if they had to complete a cycle, pain in the neck on a bike
because (depsite repeated complaints to teh council), they don't
detect me and I have to go through a red (or wait for a motor vhicle,
and who nows how many hours that might be?).

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Camera like sensors on top of traffic lights
 

In article ,
(Peter Fox) wrote:

[Microwave traffic light detectors]
They are _speed_ sensitive with a cut-off at about 15mph.

Do you have evidence for that speed cut-off? They have been used for
detecting pedestrians at puffin and toucan crossings for some time.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Camera like sensors on top of traffic lights
 

Sensors / detectors are a very good idea and should be put into all
signal-controlled junctions, not just to detect the presence of a
vehicle, but to detect any traffic-pileups and use this to rephase
traffic lights where necessary to ease the congestion.

There should be a way to detect the presence of cyclists, even if this
means the cyclist has to push a button at the junction.

Camera like sensors on top of traffic lights
 

On 22 Aug 2003 08:26:55 -0700, (nmtop40) wrote:

Sensors / detectors are a very good idea and should be put into all
signal-controlled junctions, not just to detect the presence of a
vehicle, but to detect any traffic-pileups and use this to rephase
traffic lights where necessary to ease the congestion.

They're not suitable due to their localised nature.

SCOOT UTC can do this - used extensively in London

http://signalsystems.tamu.edu/docume...B2000Part1.pdf


Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Camera like sensors on top of traffic lights
 

Had another look and they have
Micro-Sense
printed on the side.

Hell of annoying, knowing the only way I'll get through on my bike is
with cars.

Camera like sensors on top of traffic lights
 

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 23:59:58 +0100, David Cowie
wrote:

Had another look and they have
Micro-Sense
printed on the side.


That's the name of the company that makes them.
Microsense also make triaffic signal controllers.

Details at: http://www.microsense.co.uk/

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Camera like sensors on top of traffic lights
 

I don't know exactly where these signal controllers are used.

But they certainly should detect when a carriageway is completely
empty and therefore does not need to remain on green while there is
traffic waiting at other junctions.

Also there should be a maximum time anyone should have to wait at a
red signal, and in my opinion this should usually be no more than 45
seconds.

In addition, signals should be synchronised with other signals so that
if travelling along a main road (in the North of London that means A1,
A41, A10 and A503, just 4 roads, can't be that difficult surely), you
will generally come up with a succession of green lights, i.e. each
light should turn green for you as you approach.

Camera like sensors on top of traffic lights
 

On 24 Aug 2003 03:42:44 -0700, (nmtop40) wrote:

I don't know exactly where these signal controllers are used.

The microwave detectors are for queue detection at the lights.

Signal controllers are the grey boxes which drive the traffic lights.

Rob.

PS Please please more careful when trimming - it removes the context
of your comments and makes it hard to understand them.

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk