Surprised
 

That there arn't any posts about the power cuts in America and the chaos it
caused on the New York subway. Perhaps CJD might have realised that us
knuckle-scraping morons might actually be needed to come and rescue him one
day?

Surprised
 

spammy wrote:

ok then. so what would happen to the tube if london's power
got cut? im guessing theres no auxillary system in
place....is there? i think i remember something about them
having their own fossil fuel power generators...

It has been on a number of occasions. What happened? The trains stopped.

Surprised
 

Roland Perry writes
ok then. so what would happen to the tube if london's power got cut? im
guessing theres no auxillary system in place....is there? i think i remember
something about them having their own fossil fuel power generators...

They used to have their own power generation, but take it from the
National Grid now.

Indeed they used to generate all their own power - the main power
station was at Lots Road in Chelsea. And as you say, they do take most
of their power from the National Grid now- but the Greenwich power
station has been kept as a back-up.

--
Dave

Surprised
 

In article , Cast_Iron
writes
ok then. so what would happen to the tube if london's power
got cut? im guessing theres no auxillary system in
place....is there? i think i remember something about them
having their own fossil fuel power generators...

It has been on a number of occasions. What happened? The trains stopped.

Yes, but in New York the power was predicted not to be restored for
anything up to three days. That's the sort of thing that's unthinkable
in the UK (even last autumn's storms didn't knock out major cities to
that extent, even if some villages suffered). A predicted 50m people
were cut off (the same as the UK's entire population).

Almost 24 hours later they still haven't restored all the power. And
*none* of New York's subway system (and almost all their other trains)
were announced overnight as cancelled for the whole day.

From www.msnbc.com as I type:

"New York City’s subway system remained closed, and city
officials said it would take six to eight hours to resume
operations after full electrical service was restored."

There's still no indication of what caused the problem, Cleveland is
having a serious problem with water supply, Air Canada has cancelled all
flights, and Detroit is going to take all weekend to have power
restored, apparently.
--
"It used to be that what a writer did was type a bit and then stare out of the
window a bit, type a bit, stare out of the window a bit. Networked computers
make these two activities converge, because now the thing you type on and the
window you stare out of are the same thing" - Douglas Adams 28/1/99.

Surprised
 

Cast_Iron wrote:
spammy wrote:

ok then. so what would happen to the tube if london's power
got cut? im guessing theres no auxillary system in
place....is there? i think i remember something about them
having their own fossil fuel power generators...

It has been on a number of occasions. What happened? The trains
stopped.

London's power got cut on a number of occasions? When was that?

In fact, LU is legally required to have a supply independent of the national
grid, and this is provided by the standby generating station at Greenwich.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Surprised
 

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 17:54:25 +0100, "spammy" wrote:


"Robin Mayes" wrote in message
. ..
That there arn't any posts about the power cuts in America and the chaos
it
caused on the New York subway. Perhaps CJD might have realised that us
knuckle-scraping morons might actually be needed to come and rescue him
one
day?

It wouldn't matter if he was on his last breath and you were the person
who saved his life. As soon as he saw your uniform he'd complain about
how incompetent you were for allowing the power to fail / station to
burn / train to crash (delete as applicable) in the first place.

ok then. so what would happen to the tube if london's power got cut? im
guessing theres no auxillary system in place....is there? i think i remember
something about them having their own fossil fuel power generators...

From what I understand there is a back up system in place now. The main
system is supplied from the National Grid and not the old power station
at Lots Road. This failing is what caused previous power outages. The
old LT Greenwich power station is the back up for the traction current
and has to switch in quickly if the main supply fails. IIRC the stations
are now equipped with battery back up facilities to allow them to stay
running. There is a regular (once a year or so) non traffic hours test
to satisfy the appropriate regulators that the facility is in place and
works.

This has been delivered as part of the Power PFI project.
HTIOI
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Surprised
 

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 17:54:25 +0100, "spammy" wrote:


"Robin Mayes" wrote in message
. ..
That there arn't any posts about the power cuts in America and the chaos
it
caused on the New York subway. Perhaps CJD might have realised that us
knuckle-scraping morons might actually be needed to come and rescue him
one
day?



ok then. so what would happen to the tube if london's power got cut? im
guessing theres no auxillary system in place....is there? i think i remember
something about them having their own fossil fuel power generators...

There is a back up.

Greenwich power station stands ready to provide a back if the Grid
fails.

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Surprised
 

In article , Roland Perry
writes
Cleveland is
having a serious problem with water supply,

As is Detroit now.

Air Canada has cancelled all flights,

The main reason for closing the airports is apparently the lack of power
for the X-ray and security machines. Air Traffic Control is working
fine, on emergency power.

and Detroit is going to take all weekend to have power
restored, apparently.

And people are now running out of petrol, and abandoning their cars.
--
"It used to be that what a writer did was type a bit and then stare out of the
window a bit, type a bit, stare out of the window a bit. Networked computers
make these two activities converge, because now the thing you type on and the
window you stare out of are the same thing" - Douglas Adams 28/1/99.

Surprised
 

It was Fri, 15 Aug 2003 16:57:22 +0100, and "Robin Mayes"
wrote in uk.transport.london:
| That there arn't any posts about the power cuts in America
| and the chaos it caused on the New York subway.

misc.transport.urban-transit might be a better bet. Why
would people complain about NY in a London Transport group?

BTW: Those that know the most first hand may be the most
delayed on getting the power back on. It took a while to
get everyone out of the system, but no serious injuries.

JL


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Surprised
 

"Robin Mayes" wrote in message
...
That there arn't any posts about the power cuts in America and the chaos
it
caused on the New York subway. Perhaps CJD might have realised that us
knuckle-scraping morons might actually be needed to come and rescue him
one
day?



Lol,. your right there mate. Am i the only one who remembers lul did have a
powercut? and they got all passengers from trains using there back up
powerstation?

Surprised
 

ok then. so what would happen to the tube if london's power got cut? im
guessing theres no auxillary system in place....is there? i think i
remember
something about them having their own fossil fuel power generators...



Does anyone remember a major power cut on an early weekday morning sometime
in the mid 1990s on the Underground ? If I remember it right it was caused
by a cable failing somewhere near Blackwall which fed the eastern end of the
Central line, and the subsequent surge on other parts of the supply system
caused a domino effect of fuses tripping until the whole system was without
power. Supplies to traction, station lighting, signalling were lost. Most
of the system got going again later in the day (early afternoon?), although
the Central line east of Liverpool Street did not run for a further 5 days
or so.

Andrew

Surprised
 

IIRC the stations
are now equipped with battery back up facilities to allow them to stay
running.

Not quite I don't think. I have a feeling that they have battery-fed
emergency lighting to provide enough light to evacuate passengers but that
is all. Generally it is every 3rd or 4th light, you can identify them by
small red enamel plates on the fittings.

Andrew

Surprised
 

"Mike Bristow" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andrew wrote:
Does anyone remember a major power cut on an early weekday morning
sometime
in the mid 1990s on the Underground ? If I remember it right it was
caused
by a cable failing somewhere near Blackwall which fed the eastern end of
the
Central line, and the subsequent surge on other parts of the supply
system
caused a domino effect of fuses tripping until the whole system was
without
power. Supplies to traction, station lighting, signalling were lost.
Most
of the system got going again later in the day (early afternoon?),
although
the Central line east of Liverpool Street did not run for a further 5
days
or so.

CULG (http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/) does not mention any incident
that closed more than a station or three beteen 1957 & the problems
earlier this year.

Either you're missremembering something, or Clive doesn't know about
a 5 day closure east of Liverpool Street.

Personally, my money's on you missremembering (although proof to
the contrary would be most interesting!)

Cheers,
Mike


I remember the incident although am hazy about the dates. If I can find
some old documents relating to purchasing my home in London I may be able to
pinpoint the exact date. Sounds bizarre, but I remember that it happened
the day I collected the keys, hence making an unusual journey from Wapping
to Walthamstow and then to Leyton, and then trying to get into central
London to work. I remember hearing an announcement at Stratford station
saying there was no service on any underground line.

I'll try and find any references to this.

Andrew

Surprised
 

Dave wrote:
Roland Perry writes
ok then. so what would happen to the tube if london's power got
cut? im guessing theres no auxillary system in place....is there? i
think i remember something about them having their own fossil fuel
power generators...

They used to have their own power generation, but take it from the
National Grid now.

Indeed they used to generate all their own power - the main power
station was at Lots Road in Chelsea. And as you say, they do take
most
of their power from the National Grid now- but the Greenwich power
station has been kept as a back-up.

Yes but even when they still ran Lots Road it only supplied traction
current, and most of the station platform power would come from local (i.e.
grid) supplies. So in the event of a long grid power cut most of the
underground stations would be closed anyway.

Surprised
 

"Peter Smyth" wrote in message
...

"Mike Bristow" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andrew wrote:
Does anyone remember a major power cut on an early weekday morning
sometime
in the mid 1990s on the Underground ? If I remember it right it was
caused
by a cable failing somewhere near Blackwall which fed the eastern end
of
the
Central line, and the subsequent surge on other parts of the supply
system
caused a domino effect of fuses tripping until the whole system was
without
power. Supplies to traction, station lighting, signalling were lost.
Most
of the system got going again later in the day (early afternoon?),
although
the Central line east of Liverpool Street did not run for a further 5
days
or so.

CULG (http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/) does not mention any incident
that closed more than a station or three beteen 1957 & the problems
earlier this year.

Either you're missremembering something, or Clive doesn't know about
a 5 day closure east of Liverpool Street.

Personally, my money's on you missremembering (although proof to
the contrary would be most interesting!)

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...tival.ed.ac.uk refers
to
a power-cut on the Central Line on 24th November 1993 which sounds like it
could be what the OP is referring to.

Peter Smyth



That would be it I think. The date sounds right. It did actually affect
all lines in some form.

Andrew

Surprised
 

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 09:36:39 +0000 (UTC) Mike Bristow wrote:
} In article ,
} Andrew wrote:
} Does anyone remember a major power cut on an early weekday morning sometime
} in the mid 1990s on the Underground ? If I remember it right it was caused
} by a cable failing somewhere near Blackwall which fed the eastern end of the
} Central line, and the subsequent surge on other parts of the supply system
} caused a domino effect of fuses tripping until the whole system was without
} power. Supplies to traction, station lighting, signalling were lost. Most
} of the system got going again later in the day (early afternoon?), although
} the Central line east of Liverpool Street did not run for a further 5 days
} or so.
}
} CULG (http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/) does not mention any incident
} that closed more than a station or three beteen 1957 & the problems
} earlier this year.
}
} Either you're missremembering something, or Clive doesn't know about
} a 5 day closure east of Liverpool Street.
}
} Personally, my money's on you missremembering (although proof to
} the contrary would be most interesting!)

If he's misremembering then so am I.

Bad cable, short, shorted again when "repaired" and the juioe restored.
And so on for a number of days.

Thing is I can't place *when*, but it certainly happened as te eastern
Central can be part of my commute and whenm it's out the alternative NR
route is hell.

Matthew
--
Il est important d'être un homme ou une femme en colère; le jour où nous
quitte la colère, ou le désir, c'est cuit. - Barbara

http://www.calmeilles.co.uk/

Surprised
 

What amazed me was the swarms of people walking.
The last time I was in New York there was a problem on the subway. And
people just left the station and walked down the road. Literally down
the road. Not even on the pavement. Just a swarm of people walking down
the middle of the room.
--
CJG

Surprised
 

In message , Robin Mayes
writes
That there arn't any posts about the power cuts in America and the
chaos it caused on the New York subway. Perhaps CJD might have realised
that us knuckle-scraping morons might actually be needed to come and
rescue him one day?

If you mean me. I have been house hunting far away from London
Underground's monkey business. Better things to do than point out the
obvious about London Underground.
So anyway. Say the same happened here and the whole of London and South
East England lost its power. What exactly would happen on the
Underground?
And aren't New York's subway lines a lot nearer the surface. So if they
come to a halt then its a short walk to the surface.
And I can assure you if I was on the underground and the lights and
power went out I would be up in the fresh air way before the station
assistant has found his dusty safety instructions book.
--
CJG

Surprised
 

CJG wrote:
In message , Robin Mayes
writes
That there arn't any posts about the power cuts in America and the
chaos it caused on the New York subway. Perhaps CJD might have
realised that us knuckle-scraping morons might actually be needed to
come and rescue him one day?

If you mean me. I have been house hunting far away from London
Underground's monkey business. Better things to do than point out the
obvious about London Underground.
So anyway. Say the same happened here and the whole of London and
South East England lost its power. What exactly would happen on the
Underground?

Well, the theory is that the Greenwich power station (gas-turbine-powered I
believe) would start up and supply traction current, so that trains stuck in
tunnels could at least reach the next station. And emergency lighting in
stations would be powered by batteries for long enough to evacuate everyone
safely.

Two points that I would like answered:
1. Would the signals still work or would trains need to be moved under
emergency manual signalling?
2. Would the escalators and lifts be working, and if not how would
deep-level stations be evacuated?

And aren't New York's subway lines a lot nearer the surface. So if
they come to a halt then its a short walk to the surface.
And I can assure you if I was on the underground and the lights and
power went out I would be up in the fresh air way before the station
assistant has found his dusty safety instructions book.

So how would you do that if you were between stations on a tube train when
the power went off?
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Surprised
 

CJG wrote:
In message ,
Richard J. writes
CJG wrote:
And I can assure you if I was on the underground and the lights and
power went out I would be up in the fresh air way before the station
assistant has found his dusty safety instructions book.

So how would you do that if you were between stations on a tube train
when the power went off?

Me. I would follow the green emergency exit signs which are
(hopefully) lit up by battery powered lights. The same as I would do
during a power cut in any other business place if it was in a station.

That was not my question.

And just to make you feel better and London Underground staff loved.
If the train was in a tunnel and it was well into the tunnel I would
wait for someone from London Underground to come along to make sure
the power really was off for good. As quite frankly I would rather
wait for a station assistant with a flashlight than to be hit by a
train when the power comes on.

Right. So you would in fact rely on LU staff, so why suggest otherwise?
Couldn't you resist the opportunity to denigrate them? Sad.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Surprised
 

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 21:45:11 +0100, CJG
wrote:

In message , Richard J.
writes
So how would you do that if you were between stations on a tube train
when the power went off?

As quite frankly I would rather wait for a
station assistant with a flashlight than to be hit by a train when the
power comes on.

I'm sure a lot of people on this group feel very differently

Surprised
 

In article , CJG NEWSGROUP@ne
wsgroup.no.spam.thanks writes
What amazed me was the swarms of people walking.
The last time I was in New York there was a problem on the subway. And people
just left the station and walked down the road. Literally down the road. Not
even on the pavement. Just a swarm of people walking down the middle of the
room.

I've seen things approaching that outside Kings Cross when the tube
station has been closed (usually a "security alert") in the morning rush
hour.
--
"It used to be that what a writer did was type a bit and then stare out of the
window a bit, type a bit, stare out of the window a bit. Networked computers
make these two activities converge, because now the thing you type on and the
window you stare out of are the same thing" - Douglas Adams 28/1/99.

Surprised
 

Probably Me wrote in
:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 21:45:11 +0100, CJG
wrote:

In message , Richard J.
writes
So how would you do that if you were between stations on a tube train
when the power went off?

As quite frankly I would rather wait for a
station assistant with a flashlight than to be hit by a train when the
power comes on.

I'm sure a lot of people on this group feel very differently



Which only demonstrates the attitude of LUL staff regarding their passengers.

Surprised
 

It was Sun, 17 Aug 2003 20:55:42 +0100, and CJG
wrote in uk.transport.london:
| And people just left the station and walked down the road.
| Literally down the road. Not even on the pavement.

Ahh, but they were on the pavement ... in NYC that is the road!
(They also drive on parkways and park on driveways. Odd buggers.)

JL
Sidewalks are for normal days


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---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Surprised
 

On 18 Aug 2003 01:12:56 GMT, Steve wrote:

Probably Me wrote in
:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 21:45:11 +0100, CJG
wrote:

In message , Richard J.
writes
So how would you do that if you were between stations on a tube train
when the power went off?

As quite frankly I would rather wait for a
station assistant with a flashlight than to be hit by a train when the
power comes on.

I'm sure a lot of people on this group feel very differently



Which only demonstrates the attitude of LUL staff regarding their passengers.

And exactly what makes you think I am LUL staff? Has it ever crossed
your mind that I am just someone who is ****ed of with the troll CJG?

Surprised
 

"Robin Mayes" wrote in message
...
That there arn't any posts about the power cuts in America and the chaos
it
caused on the New York subway. Perhaps CJD might have realised that us
knuckle-scraping morons might actually be needed to come and rescue him
one
day?

It was surprising that the NY subway doesn't have emergency lighting like LU
does.

Surprised
 

In message , Richard J.
writes
So you would in fact rely on LU staff, so why suggest otherwise?

No. I would wait to be told by a reliable source that the power was off
for good before I left the train. And yes that would most likely be a
LU employee. But then there is a small chance it could be policeman or
fireman. But yes I would agree it would most likely be a L.U. Employee
as Im on the Underground. So that would be kinda be expected?
--
CJG

Surprised
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In article , CJG NEWSGROUP@ne
wsgroup.no.spam.thanks writes
What amazed me was the swarms of people walking.
The last time I was in New York there was a problem on the subway. And
people
just left the station and walked down the road. Literally down the road.
Not
even on the pavement. Just a swarm of people walking down the middle of
the
room.

I've seen things approaching that outside Kings Cross when the tube
station has been closed (usually a "security alert") in the morning rush
hour.
--

It happened all over central London during the tube stikes a couple of years
ago.

Andrew

Surprised
 

CJG wrote:
In message , Richard
J. writes
So you would in fact rely on LU staff, so why suggest otherwise?

No. I would wait to be told by a reliable source that the power was
off for good before I left the train. And yes that would most likely
be a LU employee. But then there is a small chance it could be
policeman or fireman. But yes I would agree it would most likely be a
L.U. Employee as Im on the Underground. So that would be kinda be
expected?

Indeed so. But you claimed that "I can assure you if I was on the
underground and the lights and power went out I would be up in the fresh air
way before the station
assistant has found his dusty safety instructions book."

Perhaps you would like to withdraw that rash claim?
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Surprised
 

In article ,
Matthew Malthouse wrote:
} Either you're missremembering something, or Clive doesn't know about
} a 5 day closure east of Liverpool Street.
}
} Personally, my money's on you missremembering (although proof to
} the contrary would be most interesting!)

If he's misremembering then so am I.

Indeed, it rather looks like CULG is wrong. I'm sure Clive'll
correct it soon enough.

--
Good night little fishey-wishes.... I've counted you, so no
sneaky eating each other.
-- FW (should I worry?)

Surprised
 

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 21:10:26 +0100, CJG
wrote:

Okay I should have made clear that the above statement only applies if I
am in a station or the train is in a station or a part of the train is
in a station.

That may be ill-advised for your own safety; many of the deaths at
Kings Cross/St Pancras resulted from the fact that people left trains
and tried to evacuate via the escalator, when in fact the only safe
way from the station was by train due to the location of the fire?

Neil

Surprised
 

Probably Me wrote in
:

On 18 Aug 2003 01:12:56 GMT, Steve wrote:

Probably Me wrote in
m:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 21:45:11 +0100, CJG
wrote:

In message , Richard
J. writes
So how would you do that if you were between stations on a tube train
when the power went off?

As quite frankly I would rather wait for a
station assistant with a flashlight than to be hit by a train when the
power comes on.

I'm sure a lot of people on this group feel very differently



Which only demonstrates the attitude of LUL staff regarding their
passengers.

And exactly what makes you think I am LUL staff? Has it ever crossed
your mind that I am just someone who is ****ed of with the troll CJG?

As you suggested you were speaking for more than one person it is irrellevent
whether or not you are LUL staff.

Surprised
 

In message , Steve
writes

As quite frankly I would rather wait for a
station assistant with a flashlight than to be hit by a train when the
power comes on.
If the tunnel lights are off, the power is on. If the tunnel lights
are on then the traction current may be off or on.
--
Clive

Surprised
 

In article , Mike Bristow
writes
Indeed, it rather looks like CULG is wrong. I'm sure Clive'll
correct it soon enough.

You clearly failed to read the bit that says:
| Temporary closures are mostly only shown if they lasted at least a
| week, though exceptions are made where I consider them interesting.

I didn't find it interesting.

--
Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8371 1138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address