On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 17:56:43 -0700, jonmorris
wrote:

On 6 Sep, 23:53, "John Salmon" wrote:

Not usually true in my experience; it's a myth started by one of the
denigrators of GNER in uk.railway. I travelled from Retford to
London and back today using GNER Advance tickets, sitting in
unreserved coach H each way, wth no difficulty. Of course, they are
entitled to make you occupy your reserved seat, and apparently it
happens occasionally - but never to me.

On our trip to Edinburgh (First Advance), I'd removed the reservation
tickets from the seat to look at them - and left them on the table.
This was because we'd booked airline seats, but been given window
seats. More confusing than that was the fact that we had 'A' seats
(airline) but was told it stood for aisle. Great theory, except the
numbers meant window.. A doesn't mean window!

Back in the good old days, seats facing each other across a table
shared a number; hence one was able to book a seat with face to
direction of travel, which is particularly useful for those who suffer
certain forms of kinetosis.

The new trains operated by Virgin and GNER (and possibly others, but
those two run 99% of the trains on which I reserve seats) have
uniquely-numbered seats, the result of which is that one cannot
reserve a seat with face to direction of travel, despite
thetrainline.com still offering it as a booking option - all seats are
listed as Airline (which simply means that the booking system doesn't
know whethere they will be Face or Back on the particular journey).

Personally, I always request forward-facing seats, and if I get a
backward-facing one, I move. I've had to explain myself once (in
somewhat over 50 journeys); and the staff member didn't complain.

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 03:35:42 +0100, James Farrar
wrote:

The new trains operated by Virgin and GNER (and possibly others, but
those two run 99% of the trains on which I reserve seats) have
uniquely-numbered seats, the result of which is that one cannot
reserve a seat with face to direction of travel

Which is just lazy on the TOCs' and Trainline's part, as Pendolinos
are always the same way round...

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On 7 Sep, 06:16, (Neil Williams) wrote:
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 03:35:42 +0100, James Farrar

wrote:
The new trains operated by Virgin and GNER (and possibly others, but
those two run 99% of the trains on which I reserve seats) have
uniquely-numbered seats, the result of which is that one cannot
reserve a seat with face to direction of travel

Which is just lazy on the TOCs' and Trainline's part, as Pendolinos
are always the same way round...

Except the Edinburgh - Euston and return which are always the wrong
way round.
(You can spot if the southbound set has been stepped up to another
service if you get the set that is back to front later in the day on
another service!)

Could the reservation computer cope with that?

Tony

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 06:03:21 -0700, wrote:

Except the Edinburgh - Euston and return which are always the wrong
way round.

Er, why? But if they are *always* the wrong way round, any decent
reservations system would be able to know that.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On 7 Sep, 14:03, wrote:
Could the reservation computer cope with that?

Surely it doesn't have to? As long as an F is always opposite a B, the
passenger for can just sit in whichever seat is facing forward or
backward regardless of which way round the set is. The reservations
computer never has to know.

(although on a Pendolino you'd also have the train's computer to
contend with)

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

"Mr Thant" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 7 Sep, 14:03, wrote:
Could the reservation computer cope with that?

Surely it doesn't have to? As long as an F is always opposite a B, the
passenger for can just sit in whichever seat is facing forward or
backward regardless of which way round the set is. The reservations
computer never has to know.

(although on a Pendolino you'd also have the train's computer to
contend with)


But they don't give the options of F or B on newer trains with uniquely
numbered seats, which is the whole basis of the problem, they all show as A,
which leads to confusion - people have wrongly interpreted it as meaning
Aisle, or mistaken it for coach A.

Paul

On 7 Sep, 18:56, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Mr Thant" wrote in message

oups.com...

On 7 Sep, 14:03, wrote:
Could the reservation computer cope with that?

Surely it doesn't have to? As long as an F is always opposite a B, the
passenger for can just sit in whichever seat is facing forward or
backward regardless of which way round the set is. The reservations
computer never has to know.

(although on a Pendolino you'd also have the train's computer to
contend with)

But they don't give the options of F or B on newer trains with uniquely
numbered seats, which is the whole basis of the problem, they all show as A,
which leads to confusion - people have wrongly interpreted it as meaning
Aisle, or mistaken it for coach A.

Paul

True. Very True.
Or if you have people used to flying, they are off looking for seat
21A (must be in the same row as 21B 21C...)
I certainly believe that a reservation system, in 2007, should have
the ability to hold the following details:
Airline or Table seat,
Window or Corridor seat,
Quiet, Normal, Family (if available) Carriage or near the Bar,
and possibly Facing or Backwards seat. (This is difficult on some
trips, like CrossCountry, where trains may reverse 2 or 3 times,
particularly on the Bournemouth route)

But it's much like the following conundrum - why can't most of these
sites comprehend that I am buying tickets for 4 adults, one who owns a
YP railcard, and one who owns a Senior railcard.

Neither of these things is beyond a modern reservation engine. SNCF-
Voyages.com seems to handle most of it. Frankly, I think it is about
time one is able to nominate a seat. Many long-haul airline sites let
you chose your seat by clicking on the diagram of the airliner - and
unavailable seats are greyed out.
I understand Deutche Bahn allow you to nominate a seat on ICEs in some
circumstances, and they are certainly fine with different discounts
for different people.

But while TheTrainline.com has a de-facto monopoly (it seems all the
others license their system), nothing will happen. Particularly now
Trainline is owned by some venture capital firm or other - they have
absolutely no interest in spending money improving a product which has
the market by the balls, since they get little benefit out of
passenger satisfaction, while the TOCs get the bad publicity if
Trainline's crap web-app is unable to perform such basic tasks.

It has to be said, I don't know how much the underlying reservation
system can store - I know it was replaced a few years back, so one
would hope there are some custom fields available, but if ATOC
specified a like-for-like replacement....

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 17:56:55 -0700 a message from
contained:

[problems with seat reservations]

Frankly, I think it is about
time one is able to nominate a seat. Many long-haul airline sites let
you chose your seat by clicking on the diagram of the airliner - and
unavailable seats are greyed out.
I understand Deutche Bahn allow you to nominate a seat on ICEs in some
circumstances, and they are certainly fine with different discounts
for different people.

But while TheTrainline.com has a de-facto monopoly (it seems all the
others license their system), nothing will happen. Particularly now
Trainline is owned by some venture capital firm or other - they have
absolutely no interest in spending money improving a product which has
the market by the balls, since they get little benefit out of
passenger satisfaction, while the TOCs get the bad publicity if
Trainline's crap web-app is unable to perform such basic tasks.

According to their website (http://www.youreastcoast.co.uk/?page_id=4)
National Express East Coast will 'during the lifetime of the
franchise' introduce a 'state-of-the-art website ... where specific
seats can be reserved'.

--
Chris Silke

On Fri, 7 Sep 2007, wrote:

True. Very True.
Or if you have people used to flying, they are off looking for seat
21A (must be in the same row as 21B 21C...)

If all the seats are individually numbered from 1-78 or whatever, the 'A'
is both useless and confusing.

I certainly believe that a reservation system, in 2007, should have
the ability to hold the following details:
Airline or Table seat,
Window or Corridor seat,
Quiet, Normal, Family (if available) Carriage or near the Bar,
and possibly Facing or Backwards seat. (This is difficult on some
trips, like CrossCountry, where trains may reverse 2 or 3 times,
particularly on the Bournemouth route)

Totally agree.

I've been reserved into the quiet coach and family coach before, neither
of them were really where i wanted to be. It make the whole thing a bit
pointless if you can't specify where you want to sit when you book your
tickets. I've read on here before stories of families being reserved into
the quiet coach.

It's probably easier to number each seat and handle the rest by the
reservation system rather than have the airline/facing/back reservations.
It's less confusing, especially for trains that reverse. "Coach C, seat
21" can only be one seat on the train.

It has to be said, I don't know how much the underlying reservation
system can store - I know it was replaced a few years back, so one
would hope there are some custom fields available, but if ATOC
specified a like-for-like replacement....

You can probably still request a seat in the smoking carriage (I think the
trainline still offers that as an option on the website).
--
Chris Johns

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 17:56:55 -0700,
wrote:
But while TheTrainline.com has a de-facto monopoly (it seems all the
others license their system), nothing will happen. Particularly now
Trainline is owned by some venture capital firm or other - they have
absolutely no interest in spending money improving a product which has
the market by the balls, since they get little benefit out of
passenger satisfaction, while the TOCs get the bad publicity if
Trainline's crap web-app is unable to perform such basic tasks.

As far as I know, Trainline has many improvements on the way.

It has to be said, I don't know how much the underlying reservation
system can store - I know it was replaced a few years back, so one
would hope there are some custom fields available, but if ATOC
specified a like-for-like replacement....

It isn't like-for-like at all, luckily! Thinking back a few years...
if I remember correctly, the new reservation system has "attributes"
that can be set up for a seat, and the system can be queried about
which attributes are supported for a particular journey and then a web
app (or human) could offer those to the customer. Obvious examples
are window, aisle, quiet, wheelchair... It could be that the TOCs
could set up their reservation data better, rather than being a
feature of the web sites.

Richard.