Although I haven't ridden on one, I understand that the new SO class
buses introduced on route 148 (Shepherds Bush to Camberwell Green) by
Transdev have leather seats. Is this for evaluation or policy for all
new buses operated by Transdev in London?

London has a long and envious record of moquette seated trains and
buses, even during the seventies when almost all other bus operators
adopted PVC seat coverings. I realise that leather seat coverings are
now making a (to my mind, unwelcome) appearance on public transport in
many parts of the country but why has Transport for London accepted
this change? Is there evidence that this is what the public wants and
what is the point on a local bus route?

To my mind, leather seats (of the kind specified in public transport)
have a fairly spartan look compared to many of the bright moquettes
used and although they may offer a "wipe-clean" surface, they are more
prone to damage by scratching or other mistreatment / vandalism.
However, they are gradually creeping into many fleets now.


Jonathan

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 13:51:44 -0700, wrote:

Although I haven't ridden on one, I understand that the new SO class
buses introduced on route 148 (Shepherds Bush to Camberwell Green) by
Transdev have leather seats. Is this for evaluation or policy for all
new buses operated by Transdev in London?

No idea.

London has a long and envious record of moquette seated trains and
buses, even during the seventies when almost all other bus operators
adopted PVC seat coverings. I realise that leather seat coverings are
now making a (to my mind, unwelcome) appearance on public transport in
many parts of the country but why has Transport for London accepted
this change? Is there evidence that this is what the public wants and
what is the point on a local bus route?

I didn't think TfL specified the seat design or covering. Some aspects
of the vehicle design are TfL specified but most is down to the operator
AFAIK.

To my mind, leather seats (of the kind specified in public transport)
have a fairly spartan look compared to many of the bright moquettes
used and although they may offer a "wipe-clean" surface, they are more
prone to damage by scratching or other mistreatment / vandalism.
However, they are gradually creeping into many fleets now.

I might be out of date but the only fleets with leather seats are all
part of the Transdev (formerly Blazefield) group - Keighley and District
(single decks), Harrogate and District (route 36) and Lancashire United
(route X43).
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On 16 Sep, 22:52, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 13:51:44 -0700, wrote:

To my mind, leather seats (of the kind specified in public transport)
have a fairly spartan look compared to many of the bright moquettes
used and although they may offer a "wipe-clean" surface, they are more
prone to damage by scratching or other mistreatment / vandalism.
However, they are gradually creeping into many fleets now.

I might be out of date but the only fleets with leather seats are all
part of the Transdev (formerly Blazefield) group - Keighley and District
(single decks), Harrogate and District (route 36) and Lancashire United
(route X43).
--
Paul C

Transdev have certainly been trailblazers in this area but these
services are generally over fairly long distances into major
conurbations - route X43 into Manchester from Burnley, route 36 from
Ripon / Harrogate into Leeds etc.

National Express have specified that their operators procure coaches
with leather seats - first Scania Irizars and more recently the
Volvo / Caetano Levante model.

Other bus services I am aware of include Reading (Thames Valley Park
Shuttle), Lothian (Edinburgh Airport link), First Group in Plymouth
(park and ride), Trent Barton (their new Optare Tempos also have wood
laminate floors [1]), Arriva serving Teeside (Middlesborough
OmniCity), Travel West Midlands (new buses for premier line services).

However, most of these are premier routes or part of quality route
corridors.


Jonathan

[1] http://www.netescape-secure.co.uk/ne...seN.asp?ID=163

On Sep 16, 11:18 pm, wrote:
On 16 Sep, 22:52, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 13:51:44 -0700, wrote:
To my mind, leather seats (of the kind specified in public transport)
have a fairly spartan look compared to many of the bright moquettes
used and although they may offer a "wipe-clean" surface, they are more
prone to damage by scratching or other mistreatment / vandalism.
However, they are gradually creeping into many fleets now.

I might be out of date but the only fleets with leather seats are all
part of the Transdev (formerly Blazefield) group - Keighley and District
(single decks), Harrogate and District (route 36) and Lancashire United
(route X43).
--
Paul C

Transdev have certainly been trailblazers in this area but these
services are generally over fairly long distances into major
conurbations - route X43 into Manchester from Burnley, route 36 from
Ripon / Harrogate into Leeds etc.

National Express have specified that their operators procure coaches
with leather seats - first Scania Irizars and more recently the
Volvo / Caetano Levante model.

Other bus services I am aware of include Reading (Thames Valley Park
Shuttle), Lothian (Edinburgh Airport link), First Group in Plymouth
(park and ride), Trent Barton (their new Optare Tempos also have wood
laminate floors [1]), Arriva serving Teeside (Middlesborough
OmniCity), Travel West Midlands (new buses for premier line services).

However, most of these are premier routes or part of quality route
corridors.

Jonathan

[1]http://www.netescape-secure.co.uk/netescape/clientzones/trent/sitefil...

And First Manchester Just in last couple of months introduced some on
its expresses

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:00:04 -0700, Connaire
wrote:

And First Manchester Just in last couple of months introduced some on
its expresses

And Ryanair

(Actually, there's a useful point there. Leather seats both look
impressive as a selling point and are easier to clean and maintain.
Given that Ryanair does not do anything unless it saves them money, it
must be pretty clear-cut).

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On 24 Sep, 21:10, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:00:04 -0700, Connaire
wrote:

And First Manchester Just in last couple of months introduced some on
its expresses

And Ryanair

(Actually, there's a useful point there. Leather seats both look
impressive as a selling point and are easier to clean and maintain.
Given that Ryanair does not do anything unless it saves them money, it
must be pretty clear-cut).

Neil


But of course Ryanair's aeroplanes still have air conditioning -
whilst I'm sure that Michael O'Leary would dispense with this if at
all possible, and I'm also quite certain it's turned down to the
minimum possible level, it is nonetheless there. My big question over
leather bus seats is how well they'll fare with regards to comfort in
the blazing hot summer, given that London buses don't have air con.

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 13:51:44 -0700, wrote:

Although I haven't ridden on one, I understand that the new SO class
buses introduced on route 148 (Shepherds Bush to Camberwell Green) by
Transdev have leather seats. Is this for evaluation or policy for all
new buses operated by Transdev in London?

London has a long and envious record of moquette seated trains and
buses, even during the seventies when almost all other bus operators
adopted PVC seat coverings. I realise that leather seat coverings are
now making a (to my mind, unwelcome) appearance on public transport in
many parts of the country but why has Transport for London accepted
this change? Is there evidence that this is what the public wants and
what is the point on a local bus route?

To my mind, leather seats (of the kind specified in public transport)
have a fairly spartan look compared to many of the bright moquettes
used and although they may offer a "wipe-clean" surface, they are more
prone to damage by scratching or other mistreatment / vandalism.
However, they are gradually creeping into many fleets now.

Back in the 1920s and 1930s, leather covered seats were commonplace.
Probably easier to keep clean than moquette, which seemed to be more
often used on coaches. Also more durable, although wooden-slatted
seats probably win the prize for durability. This was before plastics
which simulate leather became available.

Transdev's subsidiaries in the North have introduced leather seats on
their high-profile services, and claim that higher-spec vehicles
caused passenger numbers to rise. Could be that they have decided to
introduce the concept to their London operations.
--
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007, wrote:

London has a long and envious record of moquette seated trains and
buses,

I don't think i'd ever come across the word 'moquette' until i read that.
I knew what it is, just not the name!

Anyway, here's a little website on it:

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museumstudies/websites06/shields/

tom

--
NOW ALL ASS-KICKING UNTIL THE END

On 17 Sep, 00:51, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007, wrote:
London has a long and envious record of moquette seated trains and
buses,

I don't think i'd ever come across the word 'moquette' until i read that.
I knew what it is, just not the name!

Anyway, here's a little website on it:

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museumstudies/websites06/shields/

tom


You could, for a while at least, buy from the LT Museum shop cushions
covered with old moquette - I'm pretty certain it was the actual
fabric that had been used on seats as opposed to a reproduction,
though thankfully it had been well cleaned!

A friend has a couple of these cushions and I hate them with a
passion! They're covered with the horrendous nightmare inducing old
luminous orange, yellow and muck brown moquette* that was used on
District and/or Circle line trains (I can't remember which stock), but
was also found on LT's Leyland Titan buses - none of which are in
still service, in London at least, thankfully.

These damn cushions instantly take me back to those horrendous slow,
trudging journeys on a trunk bus route served by Leyland Titans that I
used to make many moons ago. As I recall the ambience of those buses
was dire. Aside from the offending moquette, the rest of the nasty
decor, such as the yellow coloured ceiling that looked as if it was
yellowing further from age (perhaps it was), the side panelling and
the flooring were all truly in fitting with this scabby bus! When they
were stationary the engine turning over shook the whole bus - not in
an endearing manner ala the Routemaster, but in a distinctly jarring
manner - and courtesy of the then thoroughly laissez-faire attitude to
bus lanes at the time, and not just their enforcement but their very
existence (or lack of), the bus spent a lot of time stationary. I'm
pretty sure they used to break down a lot more often than their
counterparts of today too.

But of course this bus is now - inevitably (?) - the object of
nostalgia. See:
http://londonbuspageinexile.wordpres...20/titan-book-
progress/

You won't be surprised to hear me say good riddance!

* If you are a sadist you can take a look at this horrible moquette on
the LT Museum website here - if you're truly a sick individual then
you can follow their suggestion and use it as a tiled wallpaper for
your desktop. And if you're not sick and do this you soon will be...
http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/76.aspx

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007, Mizter T wrote:

On 17 Sep, 00:51, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007, wrote:
London has a long and envious record of moquette seated trains and
buses,

I don't think i'd ever come across the word 'moquette' until i read that.
I knew what it is, just not the name!

* If you are a sadist you can take a look at this horrible moquette on
the LT Museum website here - if you're truly a sick individual then you
can follow their suggestion and use it as a tiled wallpaper for your
desktop. And if you're not sick and do this you soon will be...
http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/76.aspx

Clearly sponsored by the RNIB in an effort to drive up membership.

tom

--
Got a revolution behind my eyes - We got to get up and organise