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National Rail tickets from LUL stations
Hi,
What are people's experiences buying unusual or long distance or Railcard-discounted tickets at NR stations where the ticket office is run by LUL? Also, any luck getting Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards at ordinary LUL stations? U -- http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/ A blog about transport projects in London |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
Mr Thant wrote:
What are people's experiences buying unusual or long distance or Railcard-discounted tickets at NR stations where the ticket office is run by LUL? Also, any luck getting Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards at ordinary LUL stations? Not good. Kentish Town is a particular nuisance as they can't dispense return tickets for NR trains that actually stop there. ESB |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007, Mr Thant wrote:
What are people's experiences buying unusual or long distance or Railcard-discounted tickets at NR stations where the ticket office is run by LUL? Utter failure, i'm afraid. Highbury & Islington is my battleground here. Also, any luck getting Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards at ordinary LUL stations? Yes, ISTR doing that. tom -- There's no future. |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 03:16:08 -0700, Mr Thant
wrote: Hi, What are people's experiences buying unusual or long distance or Railcard-discounted tickets at NR stations where the ticket office is run by LUL? Isn't this is a slightly unfair question given that LU offices, even where there is a NR service at the location, have always had a restricted ticket range and are not subject to the same obligations as normal NR stations that have ticket offices? In such cases why would one be able to buy a unusual (whatever one of those is) or long distance ticket? I rarely have to buy tickets but have managed to get NR tickets at Blackhorse Road reasonably well - after the 10 minute queue for tickets involving family groups (talk about 20 questions!) has got out of the way. I would also comment that I would not trust the "One" ticket office at Walthamstow Central to sell me anything more complicated than a ticket to Liverpool St. If I want something complex (i.e. any ticket I would buy as I have privilege facilities and cannot book on line) I go to a big station with a decent travel centre and try to book in advance as the risk of a 30 minute queue when I have 10 minutes to catch a train is far too great. Liverpool St struggled to sell me a one day PlusBus ticket for Colchester earlier this year (on top of a normal return ticket) - this despite the window in question having a dispenser of PlusBus leaflets on it. Also, any luck getting Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards at ordinary LUL stations? Not applicable in this case. Why are you asking the questions? -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
On 26 Sep, 16:05, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 03:16:08 -0700, Mr Thant wrote: Hi, What are people's experiences buying unusual or long distance or Railcard-discounted tickets at NR stations where the ticket office is run by LUL? Isn't this is a slightly unfair question given that LU offices, even where there is a NR service at the location, have always had a restricted ticket range and are not subject to the same obligations as normal NR stations that have ticket offices? In such cases why would one be able to buy a unusual (whatever one of those is) or long distance ticket? I rarely have to buy tickets but have managed to get NR tickets at Blackhorse Road reasonably well - after the 10 minute queue for tickets involving family groups (talk about 20 questions!) has got out of the way. I would also comment that I would not trust the "One" ticket office at Walthamstow Central to sell me anything more complicated than a ticket to Liverpool St. If I want something complex (i.e. any ticket I would buy as I have privilege facilities and cannot book on line) I go to a big station with a decent travel centre and try to book in advance as the risk of a 30 minute queue when I have 10 minutes to catch a train is far too great. Liverpool St struggled to sell me a one day PlusBus ticket for Colchester earlier this year (on top of a normal return ticket) - this despite the window in question having a dispenser of PlusBus leaflets on it. Also, any luck getting Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards at ordinary LUL stations? Not applicable in this case. Why are you asking the questions? -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! I would like to answer your question about buying railcard discounted tickets at ordinary LUL stations. You wont be able to buy discounted tickets unless the LUL station is a shared station. For example Farringdon I have had no problems buying railcard discounted tickets to the stations on the Bedford line. Certain LUL stations refuse to even though they are shared. For example Highbury and Islington wont sell you any railcard discounted tickets. It is very inconsistent in my experience and it depends upon the genorisity of the shared LUL NR station. |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
"Mr Thant" wrote in message oups.com... Hi, What are people's experiences buying unusual or long distance or Railcard-discounted tickets at NR stations where the ticket office is run by LUL? Also, any luck getting Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards at ordinary LUL stations? I would imagine anything to do with Day Travelcards is strictly off limits to a LU station, as they have been binned in favour of Oyster Pre Pay daily capping surely? So a railcard discount is academic... Paul |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
On 26 Sep, 17:26, "Paul Scott" wrote:
What are people's experiences buying unusual or long distance or Railcard-discounted tickets at NR stations where the ticket office is run by LUL? Also, any luck getting Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards at ordinary LUL stations? I would imagine anything to do with Day Travelcards is strictly off limits to a LU station, as they have been binned in favour of Oyster Pre Pay daily capping surely? So a railcard discount is academic... No, you can still absolutely buy Day Travelcards at LU stations. Whether this will change when NR moves to PrePay within the zones is another question, but it will certainly continue for as long as the ticket exists.... -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
"Paul Scott" wrote in message ... "Mr Thant" wrote in message oups.com... Hi, What are people's experiences buying unusual or long distance or Railcard-discounted tickets at NR stations where the ticket office is run by LUL? Also, any luck getting Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards at ordinary LUL stations? I would imagine anything to do with Day Travelcards is strictly off limits to a LU station, as they have been binned in favour of Oyster Pre Pay daily capping surely? So a railcard discount is academic... You can still buy paper One Day Travelcards from LUL stations and until every NR station in London is equipped for Oyster they will have to continue selling them. Peter Smyth |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
On Sep 26, 4:05 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
Isn't this is a slightly unfair question given that LU offices, even where there is a NR service at the location, have always had a restricted ticket range and are not subject to the same obligations as normal NR stations that have ticket offices? I don't mean where it's "at the same location", I mean where the LUL ticket office and machines are the only way through the barrier onto NR services. Are you meant to be able to buy the same tickets here as at an NR ticket office? I'm never quite sure. In such cases why would one be able to buy a unusual (whatever one of those is) or long distance ticket? unusual = anything other than "full price single (or day return) from this station to X", where X is a nearby station. U -- http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/ A blog about transport projects in London |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:03:10 -0700, Mr Thant
wrote: On Sep 26, 4:05 pm, Paul Corfield wrote: Isn't this is a slightly unfair question given that LU offices, even where there is a NR service at the location, have always had a restricted ticket range and are not subject to the same obligations as normal NR stations that have ticket offices? I don't mean where it's "at the same location", I mean where the LUL ticket office and machines are the only way through the barrier onto NR services. Are you meant to be able to buy the same tickets here as at an NR ticket office? I'm never quite sure. So to test an example - Highbury and Islington should be able to sell a GNER "Loony Woony Toony" [1] ticket to Newcastle upon Tyne because you can catch a FCC train at Highbury and then eventually change on a GNER service at Stevenage or Peterborough? Or Kentish Town should be able sell you a ticket to Kettering because you can change from FCC to Midland Mainline at Luton? As I have already said LU stations (used to be called Section "T" stations when I was involved in all this years back) can only sell to a limited range of destinations (certainly not the entire NR network), can only sell a limited range of types, can only deal with a limited range of discounts and certainly cannot do things like reservations. Part of this is down to history and part of this is down to the fact that I imagine someone wanting a £4 ticket to Brixton or Dagenham or to add £30 to their Oyster card is not remotely interested in being stuck behind someone taking 20 minutes for a transaction. There is also the technological and staff training overhead in dealing with a massively complex NR ticket set up for very little benefit indeed. It is going to be very interesting to see what happens under the Overground set up - I imagine that current TOC locations will see no change but what will happen at "transferred to LU control" stations like Kew Gardens or Queens Park I do not know. I imagine London Travelwatch are already on the warpath after their previous campaign about Stratford. checks Surprisingly there is nothing in the news section. [1] not a real ticket type obviously but it has a certain ring don't you think? -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
On Sep 26, 6:25 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
So to test an example - Highbury and Islington should be able to sell a GNER "Loony Woony Toony" [1] ticket to Newcastle upon Tyne because you can catch a FCC train at Highbury and then eventually change on a GNER service at Stevenage or Peterborough? Why not? I'm sure you would have no hassle buying out-of-town tickets up the road at Drayton Park or Essex Road, and I'm sure people regularly do. It is going to be very interesting to see what happens under the Overground set up - I imagine that current TOC locations will see no change but what will happen at "transferred to LU control" stations like Kew Gardens or Queens Park I do not know. I imagine London Travelwatch are already on the warpath after their previous campaign about Stratford. Harrow & Wealdstone will be LUL and have direct trains to Birmingham (and potentially Crewe in future), which should be interesting. Plus I was surprised to see the new Goblin ticket machines have full NR software. I wonder if it'll last. U -- http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/ A blog about transport projects in London |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:05:56 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote: Liverpool St struggled to sell me a one day PlusBus ticket for Colchester earlier this year (on top of a normal return ticket) - this despite the window in question having a dispenser of PlusBus leaflets on it. That's because the damned things are too complicated to issue and need to be done as an add-on. The solution is to just add them as origins and destinations and allow a normal ticket to be sold for them. That might mean offering Railcard discounts, which could be compensated for by increasing the non-Railcard fare a bit so the overall take would still be the same. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
"Peter Smyth" wrote in message ... "Paul Scott" wrote in message ... "Mr Thant" wrote in message oups.com... Hi, What are people's experiences buying unusual or long distance or Railcard-discounted tickets at NR stations where the ticket office is run by LUL? Also, any luck getting Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards at ordinary LUL stations? I would imagine anything to do with Day Travelcards is strictly off limits to a LU station, as they have been binned in favour of Oyster Pre Pay daily capping surely? So a railcard discount is academic... You can still buy paper One Day Travelcards from LUL stations and until every NR station in London is equipped for Oyster they will have to continue selling them. Then the only reason I have an Oyster card at all is because some prat in an LU ticket office at Baker St told me last year they were no longer selling day travelcards, and if I wanted one I'd have to go to a NR station... Maybe he'd been too taken in by the Oyster training course... Paul |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
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National Rail tickets from LUL stations
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:03:10 -0700, Mr Thant wrote:
In such cases why would one be able to buy a unusual (whatever one of those is) or long distance ticket? unusual = anything other than "full price single (or day return) from this station to X", where X is a nearby station. They can also handle Cheap Day Singles and Returns. |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
Paul Corfield wrote:
I would also comment that I would not trust the "One" ticket office at Walthamstow Central to sell me anything more complicated than a ticket to Liverpool St. If I want something complex (i.e. any ticket I would buy as I have privilege facilities and cannot book on line) I go to a big station with a decent travel centre and try to book in advance as the risk of a 30 minute queue when I have 10 minutes to catch a train is far too great. Liverpool St struggled to sell me a one day PlusBus ticket for Colchester earlier this year (on top of a normal return ticket) - this despite the window in question having a dispenser of PlusBus leaflets on it. In days of yore (when APTIS still reigned supreme), I wouldn't trust my local "one" (ex-WAGN) Ticket Office to issue anything more complex than an undiscounted single or return to somewhere on their "Top 24" list! I bought an NSE-discounted Travelcard there once, and the clerk issued it as a Y-P one, and refused to reissue it correctly, saying "Well the discount's the same, so it's okay", or words to that effect! On the subject of PlusBus, ATOC have *finally* created a new ticket type for the add-ons. (Which used to be variously issued as "Bus Day Single", "Bus Day Return" or "Bus Period Return"). The ticket type in question is "PlusBus Day", and has a ticket type code of PBD. Tickets should be issued from the appropriate railhead to the PlusBus destination (full list in Section B1 of the Rail Links Manual, or check www.plusbus.info). Cheers, Barry |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
On 26 Sep, 22:03, Paul G wrote:
In message om, writes [snip] Certain LUL stations refuse to even though they are shared. For example Highbury and Islington wont sell you any railcard discounted tickets. I've bought discounted tickets for FCC stations both at H&I and at Moorgate, so I don't buy the "any" statement. Where were you going? (picking going with PaulC's theme). -- Paul G Typing from Barking I was travelling from H & I to West Hampstead. The ticket office attendant refused to sell me a railcard discounted ticket on a Saturday. I was forced to use the tube instead..... What a sorry situation. |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
Paul Corfield wrote: So to test an example - Highbury and Islington should be able to sell a GNER "Loony Woony Toony" [1] ticket to Newcastle upon Tyne because you can catch a FCC train at Highbury and then eventually change on a GNER service at Stevenage or Peterborough? Or Kentish Town should be able sell you a ticket to Kettering because you can change from FCC to Midland Mainline at Luton? I often make medium distance business-related trips with little notice, and two sensible routes from my office out of London are Northern Line to Kentish Town and thence by NR, or Victoria Line to Tottenham Hale or Seven Sisters and thence by NR. I have certainly wanted to do journeys like your second example -- and had to rebook at Luton or Bedford. It does seem to me -- a fairly knowledgeable traveller -- that the availability is rather random. Tottenham Hale in particular has both LU and NR ticket offices, but often the NR one is closed and you are directed to the LU one, which cannot, as you say, issue very many types of ticket. On the other hand, I discovered recently that Warren Street tube station can issue a ticket to Stansted Airport. We often accommodate visitors from continental Europe or the USA. The former are often used to wholly integrated transport systems and the latter are unaccustomed to public transport, and both find the London/ UK system rather baffling. In my experience in other places, it is unusual to be able to buy a ticket from A to B, but not from B to A, and I think we lead the world in the complexity of our ticketing options. I quite agree that you don't want people making lengthy transactions at a station with a single LU ticket window, but a return to Derby from Kentish Town doesn't seem to me to be unreasonable, or necessarily to take much longer to issue than a tube ticket. Peter CS |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
On Sep 27, 10:59 am, wrote:
I often make medium distance business-related trips with little notice, and two sensible routes from my office out of London are Northern Line to Kentish Town and thence by NR, or Victoria Line to Tottenham Hale or Seven Sisters and thence by NR. Oddly, Seven Sisters has a One ticket machine in the subway to the NR platforms (ie behind the barriers). Great for people like you arriving by tube, but if it's your local station you're stuck with what LUL will sell you (hence my curiosity about what that is). U -- http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/ A blog about transport projects in London |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
Barry Salter wrote:
I bought an NSE-discounted Travelcard there once, and the clerk issued it as a Y-P one, and refused to reissue it correctly, saying "Well the discount's the same, so it's okay", or words to that effect! So what did you do? -- Michael Hoffman |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
I wanted a Farringdon to Blackfriars Thameslink ticket today given the
broken tube. I already had a london terminals return ticket which despite my local SWT station saying it is perfectly valid from Farringdon, Im sure we all know it absolutely is not. The best the machine could offer me was £4 single. I would like to see better systems in place here. It cant possibly be right. Presumably my PAYG oyster would have been max debited too if Id got on a train to Wimbledon. It seems broken to me. mf |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
On 27 Sep, 21:48, Mystery Flyer wrote:
I wanted a Farringdon to Blackfriars Thameslink ticket today given the broken tube. I already had a london terminals return ticket which despite my local SWT station saying it is perfectly valid from Farringdon, Im sure we all know it absolutely is not. The best the machine could offer me was £4 single. National Rail quotes £1.80 - I suggest you may have go this ticket if you'd gone to the ticket office rather than the machine. I would like to see better systems in place here. It cant possibly be right. Presumably my PAYG oyster would have been max debited too if Id got on a train to Wimbledon. If you just touched-in at Farringdon then you would've got the £4 max fare. If you'd touched-in at Farringdon and then out at Wimbledon the system would've presumed you made the journey by Underground all the way and you'd have been charged £2.50 (M-F 7am to 7pm) or £2. AFAICS this would've been quasi-legit, as Oyster PAYG would've covered you for Farringdon to Blackfriars whilst your London Terminals to Wimbledon would've covered you for the rest of the journey. You would however be making a £1 or 50p donation to TfL, as the Oyster PAYG fare from Farrington to Blackfriars is £1.50 (at any time). The other alternative would've been to disembark at Blackfriars and touch-out there - as it's an interchange station (between FCC Thameslink and Southeastern services) there are Oyster readers on the platforms so you wouldn't have to go out through the gateline then back in again, and thus may even be able to get back on the same train. It seems broken to me. mf Ask at the Farringdon ticket office for a single to Blackfriars - if they can sell you one it's only half-broken in that the ticket machine can't sell you one. |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
Michael Hoffman wrote:
Barry Salter wrote: I bought an NSE-discounted Travelcard there once, and the clerk issued it as a Y-P one, and refused to reissue it correctly, saying "Well the discount's the same, so it's okay", or words to that effect! So what did you do? Got it exchanged for the correct ticket at Liverpool Street, who sighed sympathetically, as the clerk at the station in question was completely clueless, to the extent that I got a letter from WAGN confirming that there was an easement allowing Off-Peak Travelcards and Cheap Day Returns on the 09:26 train, as she was refusing to sell them before 09:30 (next train being at 09:41 at the time). Cheers, Barry |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
Mizter T wrote:
On 27 Sep, 21:48, Mystery Flyer wrote: I wanted a Farringdon to Blackfriars Thameslink ticket today given the broken tube. I already had a london terminals return ticket which despite my local SWT station saying it is perfectly valid from Farringdon, Im sure we all know it absolutely is not. The best the machine could offer me was £4 single. National Rail quotes £1.80 - I suggest you may have go this ticket if you'd gone to the ticket office rather than the machine. I will try that, but the queue was immense, and therefore I thought the machines would help (having been reading this thread)... If you just touched-in at Farringdon then you would've got the £4 max fare. If you'd touched-in at Farringdon and then out at Wimbledon the system would've presumed you made the journey by Underground all the way and you'd have been charged £2.50 (M-F 7am to 7pm) or £2. AFAICS this would've been quasi-legit, as Oyster PAYG would've covered you for Farringdon to Blackfriars whilst your London Terminals to Wimbledon would've covered you for the rest of the journey. That would have been quasi OK by me. I have to change trains at Wimbledon anyway. Bt Im not sure where you touch out - I think you probably have to walk the length of the station from the Thameslink to the District then back again. (another opportunity to miss a connection) You would however be making a £1 or 50p donation to TfL, as the Oyster PAYG fare from Farrington to Blackfriars is £1.50 (at any time). I dont want to give any unnecessary money to TfL ...disembark at Blackfriars and touch-out there - as it's an interchange station ... there are Oyster readers on the platforms so you wouldn't have to go out through the gateline then back in again, and thus may even be able to get back on the same train. An interesting idea. In the rush hour its difficult to get onto and off the trains. It cant be the right customer flow to disembark to validate then re-embark for the same train or waste 30 minutes waiting for precisely the same train to come again once you have accomplished the bureacracy required to pay the minimum fare. I would have to learn the optimum carriage for the dash to the touch out, lose my seat, and dash back before the doors close. Thats a great step forward. I will research the oyster readers location and try it next time and report back :-) Ask at the Farringdon ticket office for a single to Blackfriars - if they can sell you one it's only half-broken in that the ticket machine can't sell you one. Three quarters broken I concede :-) mf |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
I thought this may be interesting to you. I sure am happy that some
people higher up are starting to see the light. Kelly's rail tickets pledge By Staff Reporter Rail tickets will be made simpler and easier to use so people get the right one at the right price, Transport Secretary Ruth Kelly pledged today. The move comes as Which? magazine reported that poor advice about fares means some passengers are paying well over the odds. Proposals for simplified fares were first outlined in the Government's rail white paper, including four clear categories for fares and an industry price promise to offer the cheapest fare or refund the difference. Ms Kelly told Labour's Bournemouth conference today: "I will make sure that tickets will be simpler and easy to use and people can be confident they are getting the right ticket at the right price." She promised to give councils stronger powers over bus services which she conceded were "not good enough" in many areas. Ms Kelly, who is leaving the conference by train rather than ministerial car, said travel patterns must change, warning: "We simply can't build our way out of road congestion, so let us have the debate on road pricing." And she derided David Cameron's eco-credentials, telling delegates the Tory leader was "desperately trying to appeal to everyone and finding he is increasingly appealing to no one". Mr Cameron had no clear values or vision, she argued, adding: "We reject the Tories' false choice - that as a nation we can either be 'rich and dirty' or 'poor and green'. "This isn't an either/or question. We don't have to choose between tackling global warming and supporting economic growth." Tackling climate change was the "real pro-growth strategy", Ms Kelly said. "This means giving people the right incentives to make greener choices. "Enabling individuals to choose how to reduce their own carbon footprint. "Not telling them, as the Tories do, that they can't take cheap breaks - that flying should once again be the preserve of a privileged elite." |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
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National Rail tickets from LUL stations
asdf wrote On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 02:59:20 -0700, wrote: On the other hand, I discovered recently that Warren Street tube station can issue a ticket to Stansted Airport. But not a return ticket where the return journey isn't being made on the same day, and you won't get a Railcard discount. Since the journey is in the South East and less than 50 miles no ticket office sells 'not same day' return tickets and hasn't for twenty years. My local NR ticket office was happy to sell me two (out/back) singles, dated for different days. Do travel agents give Railcard discounts ? -- Mike |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
On 29 Sep 2007 23:03:03 GMT, Michael R N Dolbear wrote:
On the other hand, I discovered recently that Warren Street tube station can issue a ticket to Stansted Airport. But not a return ticket where the return journey isn't being made on the same day, and you won't get a Railcard discount. Since the journey is in the South East and less than 50 miles no ticket office sells 'not same day' return tickets and hasn't for twenty years. My local NR ticket office was happy to sell me two (out/back) singles, dated for different days. Since there is a Standard Open Return listed in the fares manual, the ticket office at Liverpool Street will quite happily sell you a 'not same day' return to Stansted (or the office at Stansted one to Warren Street). |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:12:57 -0700, Mizter T wrote:
The other alternative would've been to disembark at Blackfriars and touch-out there - as it's an interchange station (between FCC Thameslink and Southeastern services) there are Oyster readers on the platforms so you wouldn't have to go out through the gateline then back in again, and thus may even be able to get back on the same train. Are you sure? A couple of months ago, I tried to use PAYG on FCC at Blackfriars. The new NR gates there, although left open, would not accept my PAYG Oyster. In fact, despite having a good hunt around, I could not find anywhere to touch in/out at all. (It didn't occur to me to head over to the Southeastern platforms and look there, though.) |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
On 29 Sep 2007 23:03:03 GMT, "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote: Since the journey is in the South East and less than 50 miles no ticket office sells 'not same day' return tickets and hasn't for twenty years. Not necessarily. There exist period return tickets to Luton, Gatwick and Stansted from a lot of places where they wouldn't otherwise exist. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
National Rail tickets from LUL stations
Neil Williams wrote:
On 29 Sep 2007 23:03:03 GMT, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote: Since the journey is in the South East and less than 50 miles no ticket office sells 'not same day' return tickets and hasn't for twenty years. Not necessarily. There exist period return tickets to Luton, Gatwick and Stansted from a lot of places where they wouldn't otherwise exist. Also to Harwich International and IIRC some other similar place as well. -- Olof Lagerkvist ICQ: 724451 Web: http://here.is/olof |
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