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Unfinished part of the M23?
If you look on Google earth at the northern most bit of the M23 north
of the M25 just where it joins the A23 you can see what looks like an unmetalled bit of the motorway continue over a bridge with trucks and cars parked on it. Further on still theres a completely unused bridge that goes over the A23 surrounded by scrubby woods. Anyone know what this bit is used for now and was the M23 originally supposed to have continued further north than it does now? B2003 |
Unfinished part of the M23?
Boltar wrote:
If you look on Google earth at the northern most bit of the M23 north of the M25 just where it joins the A23 you can see what looks like an unmetalled bit of the motorway continue over a bridge with trucks and cars parked on it. Further on still theres a completely unused bridge that goes over the A23 surrounded by scrubby woods. Anyone know what this bit is used for now and was the M23 originally supposed to have continued further north than it does now? Turn on the "Google Earth Community" layer in Google Earth. Someone called "londingham" has placed a placemark there with a comment that it was left unfinished in the 1970's. http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showthrea.../Number/331643 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M23_motorway No idea about what the bit is used for though, but looks like some kind of storage area for highway construction/maintenance works or something like that. -- Olof Lagerkvist ICQ: 724451 Web: http://here.is/olof |
Unfinished part of the M23?
In article . com,
Boltar wrote: If you look on Google earth at the northern most bit of the M23 north of the M25 just where it joins the A23 you can see what looks like an unmetalled bit of the motorway continue over a bridge with trucks and cars parked on it. Further on still theres a completely unused bridge that goes over the A23 surrounded by scrubby woods. Anyone know what this bit is used for now and was the M23 originally supposed to have continued further north than it does now? I don't know of a better site for this sort of thing than CBRD: http://www.cbrd.co.uk/histories/m23/ Unless it's www.pathetic.org.uk of course, but AFAICS he doesn't cover the "lost" M23 extension. Nick -- Serendipity: http://www.leverton.org/blosxom (last update 28th Sep 2007) "The Internet, an ersatz counterfeit of real life" -- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996 |
Unfinished part of the M23?
In message . com,
Boltar writes as the M23 originally supposed to have continued further north than it does now? Yes, it was to have continued as far as Balham, from where spurs would have connected it to the inner London Ringway ("London Motorway Box"). The only bits of the latter to be built were the sections either side of the Blackwall Tunnel, plus the tiny bit of (former) motorway from Westway down to the Shepherd's Bush roundabout: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...1960s_Plan.png Everything else was abandoned due to the cost and unacceptability of demolishing tens of thousands of properties. -- Paul Terry |
Unfinished part of the M23?
On Sat, 2007-09-29 at 09:12 +0100, Paul Terry wrote:
In message . com, Boltar writes as the M23 originally supposed to have continued further north than it does now? Yes, it was to have continued as far as Balham, from where spurs would have connected it to the inner London Ringway ("London Motorway Box"). In which case it really WOULD have become the 'Gateway to the South' |
Unfinished part of the M23?
On Sep 29, 5:18 pm, John Hearns wrote:
On Sat, 2007-09-29 at 09:12 +0100, Paul Terry wrote: In message . com, Boltar writes as the M23 originally supposed to have continued further north than it does now? Yes, it was to have continued as far as Balham, from where spurs would have connected it to the inner London Ringway ("London Motorway Box"). In which case it really WOULD have become the 'Gateway to the South' In the same vein, just before J8 on the Londonbound side of the M4, there's a curious bit where the roadside fence stops and it looks like there was some sort of exit at some point. Google Earth just shows a field beyond and a fairly new housing estate. It does however look as if something turned away from the motorway at some point in the past. Was it a contractors depot or similar? Neill |
Unfinished part of the M23?
In message 1191082728.8057.1.camel@Vigor13, John Hearns
writes On Sat, 2007-09-29 at 09:12 +0100, Paul Terry wrote: Yes, it was to have continued as far as Balham, from where spurs would have connected it to the inner London Ringway ("London Motorway Box"). In which case it really WOULD have become the 'Gateway to the South' LOL! Although I think Balham's grand vista of ever-changing lights (red, red and amber, green, amber and then red again) might have been a bit sub-optimal for a motorway. (According to the WIKI entry on Balham, "Gateway to the South" was an actual advertising slogan used by the Southern Railway in 1926 when the Northern Line tube station opened adjacent to their own station - but I find it hard to believe!). -- Paul Terry |
Original J8 on the M4 (was: Unfinished part of the M23?)
verbena wrote:
In the same vein, just before J8 on the Londonbound side of the M4, there's a curious bit where the roadside fence stops and it looks like there was some sort of exit at some point. Google Earth just shows a field beyond and a fairly new housing estate. It does however look as if something turned away from the motorway at some point in the past. Was it a contractors depot or similar? I think you're referring to the original J8 which was on the London side of the current J8/9. When the Maidenhead by-pass section of the M4 was constructed, there was a junction where the M4 crosses A308. The slip roads were on the London side of the A308 bridge, and led to T-junctions with A308, uncontrolled as far as I remember. Going west from here, the motorway then curved to the north-west and headed for Maidenhead Thicket with the intention of continuing westwards to the north of Reading. When it was decided to route the M4 south of Reading a new junction was needed between the Maidenhead Thicket route (now A404(M)) and the new alignment. When the junctions were numbered, the A308 junction became J8, the new junction was to be J9, and the two junctions on the Thicket route became J9a and J9b. However, it was then realised that J8 needed upgrading and was very close to the planned J9. The upgrading was achieved by building the A308(M) spur to a combined junction J8/9, and the old J8 was closed. You can still see the original curve of the M4 just to the north-east of the J8/9 roundabout. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Original J8 on the M4 (was: Unfinished part of the M23?)
On Sep 29, 7:59 pm, "Richard J." wrote:
You can still see the original curve of the M4 just to the north-east of the J8/9 roundabout. You can see it quite clearly in google earth, it looks quite green. Did they dig up the road surface or did they just let it return to nature on its own? If the latter it says a lot about how long our infrastructure wouldn't last if humanity suddenly vanished from the planet :) B2003 |
Original J8 on the M4 (was: Unfinished part of the M23?)
Boltar wrote:
On Sep 29, 7:59 pm, "Richard J." wrote: You can still see the original curve of the M4 just to the north-east of the J8/9 roundabout. You can see it quite clearly in google earth, it looks quite green. Did they dig up the road surface or did they just let it return to nature on its own? If the latter it says a lot about how long our infrastructure wouldn't last if humanity suddenly vanished from the planet :) I'm pretty sure they dug it up. There are, after all, hurriedly constructed runways on wartime airfields which are still there 60 years later. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Original J8 on the M4 (was: Unfinished part of the M23?)
On Sep 29, 10:56 pm, "Richard J." wrote:
I'm pretty sure they dug it up. There are, after all, hurriedly constructed runways on wartime airfields which are still there 60 years later. Good point. I know there are plenty of sections small roads that have been just cut off and left to their own devices but are there any large sections of A roads (or motorways) that were bypassed and disused and just left alone? B2003 |
Original J8 on the M4 (was: Unfinished part of the M23?)
Boltar wrote:
On Sep 29, 10:56 pm, "Richard J." wrote: I'm pretty sure they dug it up. There are, after all, hurriedly constructed runways on wartime airfields which are still there 60 years later. Good point. I know there are plenty of sections small roads that have been just cut off and left to their own devices but are there any large sections of A roads (or motorways) that were bypassed and disused and just left alone? I don't know, but IMO the Great Dunmow Bypass should be decommissioned or turned back into a railway when it next needs resurfacing. The new A120 has rendered it pretty redundant. |
Original J8 on the M4 (was: Unfinished part of the M23?)
In article . com,
Boltar wrote: On Sep 29, 10:56 pm, "Richard J." wrote: I'm pretty sure they dug it up. There are, after all, hurriedly constructed runways on wartime airfields which are still there 60 years later. Good point. I know there are plenty of sections small roads that have been just cut off and left to their own devices but are there any large sections of A roads (or motorways) that were bypassed and disused and just left alone? Probably the longest stretch I know of: when the M74 opened, the A74 trunk dual carriageway was converted to single carriageway B-road, with the whole length of the second carriageway being abandoned to nature. CBRD again: http://www.cbrd.co.uk/histories/b7076-b7078/ Nick -- Serendipity: http://www.leverton.org/blosxom (last update 28th Sep 2007) "The Internet, an ersatz counterfeit of real life" -- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996 |
Original J8 on the M4 (was: Unfinished part of the M23?)
Nick Leverton wrote:
In article . com, Boltar wrote: On Sep 29, 10:56 pm, "Richard J." wrote: I'm pretty sure they dug it up. There are, after all, hurriedly constructed runways on wartime airfields which are still there 60 years later. Good point. I know there are plenty of sections small roads that have been just cut off and left to their own devices but are there any large sections of A roads (or motorways) that were bypassed and disused and just left alone? Probably the longest stretch I know of: when the M74 opened, the A74 trunk dual carriageway was converted to single carriageway B-road, with the whole length of the second carriageway being abandoned to nature. Oh yeah... http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v...2217&encType=1 |
Original J8 on the M4 (was: Unfinished part of the M23?)
On Sep 30, 12:44 pm, "John Rowland"
wrote: Nick Leverton wrote: In article . com, Boltar wrote: On Sep 29, 10:56 pm, "Richard J." wrote: I'm pretty sure they dug it up. There are, after all, hurriedly constructed runways on wartime airfields which are still there 60 years later. Good point. I know there are plenty of sections small roads that have been just cut off and left to their own devices but are there any large sections of A roads (or motorways) that were bypassed and disused and just left alone? Probably the longest stretch I know of: when the M74 opened, the A74 trunk dual carriageway was converted to single carriageway B-road, with the whole length of the second carriageway being abandoned to nature. Oh yeah...http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v...908083&style=a... I see a whole new hobby here, finding bit of modern roads that have been closed, abandoned junction plans etc. There was an interesting claim in the local paper last week that ground work was actually undertaken for services betweeb J's 9 and 10 on the M25. This has been controversial for some years now as locals are worried what effect a motorway services would have on their million pound plus properties. Now someone has said that hew was actually engaged in test drilling back in hte 1980's, before the plan was even officially mooted. Neill |
Original J8 on the M4 (was: Unfinished part of the M23?)
"verbena" wrote in message ups.com... Oh yeah...http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v...908083&style=a... I see a whole new hobby here, finding bit of modern roads that have been closed, abandoned junction plans etc. There was an interesting claim in the local paper last week that ground work was actually undertaken for services betweeb J's 9 and 10 on the M25. This has been controversial for some years now as locals are worried what effect a motorway services would have on their million pound plus properties. Now someone has said that hew was actually engaged in test drilling back in hte 1980's, before the plan was even officially mooted. I can think of a few sites on the motorway network where services have been planned since the very start of construction, a good example is on the M27 at Fareham West, where the the westbound off slip is nearly a mile long with further slip roads easily visible, and the eastbound on slip is paralled by about half a mile of road for access to the future services. Been there 30 years now so why do the Nimbys always seem so surprised? Paul |
Original J8 on the M4 (was: Unfinished part of the M23?)
On 1 Oct, 09:59, verbena wrote:
I see a whole new hobby here, finding bit of modern roads that have been closed, abandoned junction plans etc. Visit www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum and you'll find yourself in very like-minded company! Also sister sites www.cbrd.co.uk and www.pathetic.org.uk. Sam |
Original J8 on the M4 (was: Unfinished part of the M23?)
On Mon, 1 Oct 2007, Sam wrote:
On 1 Oct, 09:59, verbena wrote: I see a whole new hobby here, finding bit of modern roads that have been closed, abandoned junction plans etc. Visit www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum and you'll find yourself in very like-minded company! Also sister sites www.cbrd.co.uk and www.pathetic.org.uk. Yep, road nutters, god bless 'em - i told you we had them! Although i'd failed to account for junction nutters as a subtype. Hmm; there must be rail junction nutters too, maybe we could have a joint shindig? tom -- there is not much call for a Chinese George Michael |
Original J8 on the M4 (was: Unfinished part of the M23?)
On Sep 29, 10:56 pm, "Richard J." wrote:
Boltar wrote: On Sep 29, 7:59 pm, "Richard J." wrote: You can still see the original curve of the M4 just to the north-east of the J8/9 roundabout. You can see it quite clearly in google earth, it looks quite green. Did they dig up the road surface or did they just let it return to nature on its own? If the latter it says a lot about how long our infrastructure wouldn't last if humanity suddenly vanished from the planet :) I'm pretty sure they dug it up. There are, after all, hurriedly constructed runways on wartime airfields which are still there 60 years later. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) There's another strange bit further along between Junctions 7 and 6 on the north side, at the point where the sewage farm is on the opposite side. I think it looks about where you have a sign for Legoland. As I remember, the fence curves away from the carriageway at that point. Neill |
Original J8 on the M4 (was: Unfinished part of the M23?)
verbena wrote:
On Sep 29, 10:56 pm, "Richard J." wrote: Boltar wrote: On Sep 29, 7:59 pm, "Richard J." wrote: You can still see the original curve of the M4 just to the north-east of the J8/9 roundabout. You can see it quite clearly in google earth, it looks quite green. Did they dig up the road surface or did they just let it return to nature on its own? If the latter it says a lot about how long our infrastructure wouldn't last if humanity suddenly vanished from the planet :) I'm pretty sure they dug it up. There are, after all, hurriedly constructed runways on wartime airfields which are still there 60 years later. There's another strange bit further along between Junctions 7 and 6 on the north side, at the point where the sewage farm is on the opposite side. I think it looks about where you have a sign for Legoland. As I remember, the fence curves away from the carriageway at that point. That's comparatively recent. A bank of earth was erected some years ago to provide noise protection for the housing estate that was built just north of the motorway. Presumably for emergency access reasons, there is a break in the bank, but it's arranged so that there is no direct path through it in order to maintain the noise protection. It's at 51 30'31"N 0 38'28"W on Google Earth. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Original J8 on the M4
Paul Scott wrote:
I can think of a few sites on the motorway network where services have been planned since the very start of construction, a good example is on the M27 at Fareham West, where the the westbound off slip is nearly a mile long with further slip roads easily visible, and the eastbound on slip is paralled by about half a mile of road for access to the future services. Been there 30 years now so why do the Nimbys always seem so surprised? Other planned (but unbuilt) sites for MSAs include: Chigwell (Between Junctions 4 and 5 of the M11) - Site in use as a Works Unit and Police Control Centre on the Northbound site Staverton (Just South of Junction 10 of the M5) - Off slip "stub" provided SB, on slip "stub" NB, still extant. Moreton Valence (Between Junctions 12 and 13 of the M5) - Off slip "stub" provided NB, on slip "stub" SB, still extant. Harborough Magna (Between Junctions 1 and 2 of the M6) - Off slip provided NB, on slip SB, still extant. Doxey, nr Stafford (Between Junctions 13 and 14 of the M6) - All slips constructed, MSA sites apparently screened by trees. Newton-le-Willows (Between Junctions 22 and 23 of the M6) - All slips constructed, EB site in use as Works Unit. Basingstoke (Between Junctions 6 and 7 of the M3) - Off slip "stub" provided SB, on slip "stub" NB, still extant. NB MSA site now a residential area. Cheers, Barry |
Original J8 on the M4
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Original J8 on the M4
In article ,
Barry Salter wrote: Other planned (but unbuilt) sites for MSAs include: Chigwell (Between Junctions 4 and 5 of the M11) Staverton (Just South of Junction 10 of the M5) Moreton Valence (Between Junctions 12 and 13 of the M5) Harborough Magna (Between Junctions 1 and 2 of the M6) Doxey, nr Stafford (Between Junctions 13 and 14 of the M6) Newton-le-Willows (Between Junctions 22 and 23 of the M6) Basingstoke (Between Junctions 6 and 7 of the M3) There are slip stubs for a never-built service area on the M1 a little south of where the present J23A is (Kegworth/Castle Donington). More recently a service area was built at the top roundabout of J23A, leaving the old stub exit/entrance half a mile away on the main line unused. Nick -- Serendipity: http://www.leverton.org/blosxom (last update 28th Sep 2007) "The Internet, an ersatz counterfeit of real life" -- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996 |
Original J8 on the M4 (was: Unfinished part of the M23?)
Paul Scott wrote:
I can think of a few sites on the motorway network where services have been planned since the very start of construction, a good example is on the M27 at Fareham West, where the the westbound off slip is nearly a mile long with further slip roads easily visible, and the eastbound on slip is paralled by about half a mile of road for access to the future services. Been there 30 years now so why do the Nimbys always seem so surprised? Is this why there is a long sliproad at the M25/A217 junction ? |
Original J8 on the M4 (was: Unfinished part of the M23?)
"John Rowland" wrote in message ... Paul Scott wrote: I can think of a few sites on the motorway network where services have been planned since the very start of construction, a good example is on the M27 at Fareham West, where the the westbound off slip is nearly a mile long with further slip roads easily visible, and the eastbound on slip is paralled by about half a mile of road for access to the future services. Been there 30 years now so why do the Nimbys always seem so surprised? Is this why there is a long sliproad at the M25/A217 junction ? No, when the M25 was widened here, this slip was made longer here to avoid it being too steep. (and perhaps to add some queueing space for the traffic light controlled roundabout it meets. tim |
Original J8 on the M4 (was: Unfinished part of the M23?)
John Rowland wrote:
Paul Scott wrote: I can think of a few sites on the motorway network where services have been planned since the very start of construction, a good example is on the M27 at Fareham West, where the the westbound off slip is nearly a mile long with further slip roads easily visible, and the eastbound on slip is paralled by about half a mile of road for access to the future services. Been there 30 years now so why do the Nimbys always seem so surprised? Is this why there is a long sliproad at the M25/A217 junction ? No, that was done when the motorway was widened to 4 lanes in each direction. It's to separate clockwise traffic leaving at that junction from slow-moving vehicles on the hill, so they put the exit to the slip road at the bottom of the hill. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Original J8 on the M4 (was: Unfinished part of the M23?)
On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 11:28:42 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote: John Rowland wrote: Paul Scott wrote: I can think of a few sites on the motorway network where services have been planned since the very start of construction, a good example is on the M27 at Fareham West, where the the westbound off slip is nearly a mile long with further slip roads easily visible, and the eastbound on slip is paralled by about half a mile of road for access to the future services. Been there 30 years now so why do the Nimbys always seem so surprised? Is this why there is a long sliproad at the M25/A217 junction ? No, that was done when the motorway was widened to 4 lanes in each direction. It's to separate clockwise traffic leaving at that junction from slow-moving vehicles on the hill, so they put the exit to the slip road at the bottom of the hill. Thanks (and also to Tim for a slightly different version of it being about gradients): I'd often wondered about this unusually long slip road but never known the reason for it Martin |
Original J8 on the M4 (was: Unfinished part of the M23?)
Richard J. wrote:
John Rowland wrote: Paul Scott wrote: I can think of a few sites on the motorway network where services have been planned since the very start of construction, a good example is on the M27 at Fareham West, where the the westbound off slip is nearly a mile long with further slip roads easily visible, and the eastbound on slip is paralled by about half a mile of road for access to the future services. Been there 30 years now so why do the Nimbys always seem so surprised? Is this why there is a long sliproad at the M25/A217 junction ? No, that was done when the motorway was widened to 4 lanes in each direction. It's to separate clockwise traffic leaving at that junction from slow-moving vehicles on the hill, so they put the exit to the slip road at the bottom of the hill. Thanks, Richard and Tim. |
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