http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/document/2940/get

Interesting suggestions.

On Mon, 1 Oct 2007, Mwmbwls wrote:

http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/document/2940/get

Interesting suggestions.

Mostly fairly pedestrian, but LTW's job is to focus on things which can be
practically delivered.

Things which struck me:

"on the Moorgate Welwyn Garden City / Hertford North routes contra peak
services (i.e. northbound until 0900 and southbound after 1600) are only 2
tph."

Christ! How the hell does that work? Do most of the trains run ECS back up
north? How much time does that save over running in service?

"Indeed we have seen no convincing explanation of why LUL can work on the
basis of routine engineering access being provided largely at night,
whereas on four-track sections of its network Network Rail imposes
timetables which give it carte blanch Sunday access to 50% of the tracks."

That isn't quite fair - on LU, the overnight closures are supplemented by
a generous serving of weekend closures on many lines. Okay, so the tube is
being heavily renewed rather than just maintained, but still.

"We believe that the Dutch/Swiss Taktfahrplan system should be the model
to adopt, with timetables planned on the mirror-image principle so that
connections between trains are as good in one direction as they are in the
other."

The what now? There's a footnote about this earlier on that refers to
LTW's 'Requirements for Train Services - Principles', but that doesn't
make things enormously clearer to me. Probably because i'm not really
aware of these "different patterns in each direction" situations. Anyway,
sounds like a splendid plan! Treble kirsches all round!

"work should start now to arrange for the transfer and refurbishment of
Class 313 units as soon as they can be released from the London
Overground."

AAAAAARGH! 313s! 313s don't need refurbishment, they need a stake through
the transformer and burying! Still, this is the only practical option at
the moment.

"However for weekday evenings, when the Moorgate service has recently been
successfully extended to run up to 2200, the level of activity in the City
and around Old Street is such that there appears to be a strong case for a
further extension to the normal close of traffic."

Amen to that. On fridays and saturdays, they could run those trains all
night and have people on them. I've often been going home from an evening
in the City, on various weeknights, and gone to Moorgate in an attempt to
get a train straight home to Finsbury Park, and been thwarted.

"An issue not covered in the RUS is that of high demand, and therefore of
crowding issues, when fixtures are held at Arsenals new Emirates stadium."

Bloody right!

"The present situation is that Drayton Park station one of the closest to
the stadium is closed when most events take place."

Exactly! *******s!

"Historically this is because of the restricted operating hours of the
Moorgate line. It would obviously be beneficial for the line to be opened
at these times, but First Capital Connect have made it clear that even if
the line were open they would keep Drayton Park closed because its narrow
island platform and booking hall access could not cope with the expected
crowds. However opposite the present platform, on the down side, there is
vacant land on which an additional platform could be built."

Excellent idea, and why on earth was this not in the RUS?

"London TravelWatch considers that this should be done as soon as
possible, and we understand that S106 money may be obtainable as a
contribution to such a scheme."

S106 = Arsenal pays.

tom

--
The final chapter, prophetic, poetic

On Oct 2, 12:01 am, Tom Anderson wrote:
"on the Moorgate Welwyn Garden City / Hertford North routes contra peak
services (i.e. northbound until 0900 and southbound after 1600) are only 2
tph."

Christ! How the hell does that work? Do most of the trains run ECS back up
north? How much time does that save over running in service?

I presume they spend the day in Hornsey depot, which doesn't give you
much of a service.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On Oct 2, 12:01 am, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 1 Oct 2007, Mwmbwls wrote:
http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/document/2940/get

Interesting suggestions.

Mostly fairly pedestrian, but LTW's job is to focus on things which can be
practically delivered.

Things which struck me:

"on the Moorgate Welwyn Garden City / Hertford North routes contra peak
services (i.e. northbound until 0900 and southbound after 1600) are only 2
tph."

Christ! How the hell does that work? Do most of the trains run ECS back up
north? How much time does that save over running in service?

"Indeed we have seen no convincing explanation of why LUL can work on the
basis of routine engineering access being provided largely at night,
whereas on four-track sections of its network Network Rail imposes
timetables which give it carte blanch Sunday access to 50% of the tracks."

That isn't quite fair - on LU, the overnight closures are supplemented by
a generous serving of weekend closures on many lines. Okay, so the tube is
being heavily renewed rather than just maintained, but still.

"We believe that the Dutch/Swiss Taktfahrplan system should be the model
to adopt, with timetables planned on the mirror-image principle so that
connections between trains are as good in one direction as they are in the
other."

The what now? There's a footnote about this earlier on that refers to
LTW's 'Requirements for Train Services - Principles', but that doesn't
make things enormously clearer to me. Probably because i'm not really
aware of these "different patterns in each direction" situations. Anyway,
sounds like a splendid plan! Treble kirsches all round!

"work should start now to arrange for the transfer and refurbishment of
Class 313 units as soon as they can be released from the London
Overground."

AAAAAARGH! 313s! 313s don't need refurbishment, they need a stake through
the transformer and burying! Still, this is the only practical option at
the moment.

"However for weekday evenings, when the Moorgate service has recently been
successfully extended to run up to 2200, the level of activity in the City
and around Old Street is such that there appears to be a strong case for a
further extension to the normal close of traffic."

Amen to that. On fridays and saturdays, they could run those trains all
night and have people on them. I've often been going home from an evening
in the City, on various weeknights, and gone to Moorgate in an attempt to
get a train straight home to Finsbury Park, and been thwarted.

"An issue not covered in the RUS is that of high demand, and therefore of
crowding issues, when fixtures are held at Arsenals new Emirates stadium."

Bloody right!

"The present situation is that Drayton Park station one of the closest to
the stadium is closed when most events take place."

Exactly! *******s!

"Historically this is because of the restricted operating hours of the
Moorgate line. It would obviously be beneficial for the line to be opened
at these times, but First Capital Connect have made it clear that even if
the line were open they would keep Drayton Park closed because its narrow
island platform and booking hall access could not cope with the expected
crowds. However opposite the present platform, on the down side, there is
vacant land on which an additional platform could be built."

Excellent idea, and why on earth was this not in the RUS?

"London TravelWatch considers that this should be done as soon as
possible, and we understand that S106 money may be obtainable as a
contribution to such a scheme."

S106 = Arsenal pays.


So what is the history of the line being closed at weekends? It was
open on Sundays from the late 1970s when it reopened after the
transfer. I am not clear on when it closed.

Tom Anderson wrote:

Things which struck me:

"on the Moorgate Welwyn Garden City / Hertford North routes contra
peak services (i.e. northbound until 0900 and southbound after 1600)
are only 2 tph."

Christ! How the hell does that work? Do most of the trains run ECS
back up north?

Yes, empty north of Finsbury Park.

How much time does that save over running in service?

A lot.

On Oct 2, 12:15 am, MIG wrote:
On Oct 2, 12:01 am, Tom Anderson wrote:





On Mon, 1 Oct 2007, Mwmbwls wrote:
http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/document/2940/get

Interesting suggestions.

Mostly fairly pedestrian, but LTW's job is to focus on things which can be
practically delivered.

Things which struck me:

"on the Moorgate Welwyn Garden City / Hertford North routes contra peak
services (i.e. northbound until 0900 and southbound after 1600) are only 2
tph."

Christ! How the hell does that work? Do most of the trains run ECS back up
north? How much time does that save over running in service?

"Indeed we have seen no convincing explanation of why LUL can work on the
basis of routine engineering access being provided largely at night,
whereas on four-track sections of its network Network Rail imposes
timetables which give it carte blanch Sunday access to 50% of the tracks."

That isn't quite fair - on LU, the overnight closures are supplemented by
a generous serving of weekend closures on many lines. Okay, so the tube is
being heavily renewed rather than just maintained, but still.

"We believe that the Dutch/Swiss Taktfahrplan system should be the model
to adopt, with timetables planned on the mirror-image principle so that
connections between trains are as good in one direction as they are in the
other."

The what now? There's a footnote about this earlier on that refers to
LTW's 'Requirements for Train Services - Principles', but that doesn't
make things enormously clearer to me. Probably because i'm not really
aware of these "different patterns in each direction" situations. Anyway,
sounds like a splendid plan! Treble kirsches all round!

"work should start now to arrange for the transfer and refurbishment of
Class 313 units as soon as they can be released from the London
Overground."

AAAAAARGH! 313s! 313s don't need refurbishment, they need a stake through
the transformer and burying! Still, this is the only practical option at
the moment.

"However for weekday evenings, when the Moorgate service has recently been
successfully extended to run up to 2200, the level of activity in the City
and around Old Street is such that there appears to be a strong case for a
further extension to the normal close of traffic."

Amen to that. On fridays and saturdays, they could run those trains all
night and have people on them. I've often been going home from an evening
in the City, on various weeknights, and gone to Moorgate in an attempt to
get a train straight home to Finsbury Park, and been thwarted.

"An issue not covered in the RUS is that of high demand, and therefore of
crowding issues, when fixtures are held at Arsenals new Emirates stadium."

Bloody right!

"The present situation is that Drayton Park station one of the closest to
the stadium is closed when most events take place."

Exactly! *******s!

"Historically this is because of the restricted operating hours of the
Moorgate line. It would obviously be beneficial for the line to be opened
at these times, but First Capital Connect have made it clear that even if
the line were open they would keep Drayton Park closed because its narrow
island platform and booking hall access could not cope with the expected
crowds. However opposite the present platform, on the down side, there is
vacant land on which an additional platform could be built."

Excellent idea, and why on earth was this not in the RUS?

"London TravelWatch considers that this should be done as soon as
possible, and we understand that S106 money may be obtainable as a
contribution to such a scheme."

S106 = Arsenal pays.

So what is the history of the line being closed at weekends? It was
open on Sundays from the late 1970s when it reopened after the
transfer. I am not clear on when it closed.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I forget the exact dates, but it started to close on Sundays in the
early 80s and on Saturdays and late evenings in about 1986/7, at a
time when off-peak traffic was very light and there were spare paths
into Kings Cross. Nowadays, the use of KX at weekends restricts the
Sat and Sun services to 2 tph rather than 3. (A couple of years ago,
the opening hours were extended to about 2150 rather than 2030.)

IMO, FWIW, the service should run to Moorgate Mon-Sat and KX Sun. The
Barbican Centre is a potential major source of traffic in the evenings
but the last trains depart just before most performances finish!

It is also clearly absurd not to provide enhanced facilities at
Drayton Park for travelling supporters, especially given the huge
expanse of derelict land (the former LT depot) by the station. But
don't expect AFC to pay - why should they?

In article , Tom
Anderson writes
"on the Moorgate Welwyn Garden City / Hertford North routes contra peak
services (i.e. northbound until 0900 and southbound after 1600) are
only 2 tph."

Christ! How the hell does that work? Do most of the trains run ECS back
up north?

The peak arrivals run ECS back up to the northern termini to provide
another with-flow service.

How much time does that save over running in service?

12.5 minutes.

[Moorgate to WGC: 46 minutes in service, 33.5 minutes ECS.]

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

On 2 Oct, 07:30, wrote:

"London TravelWatch considers that this should be done as soon as
possible, and we understand that S106 money may be obtainable as a
contribution to such a scheme."

S106 = Arsenal pays.


It is also clearly absurd not to provide enhanced facilities at
Drayton Park for travelling supporters, especially given the huge
expanse of derelict land (the former LT depot) by the station. But
don't expect AFC to pay - why should they?-


The section 106 issue concerning Arsenal's contribution has already
been fixed when planning permission was granted.


http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/document/2940/get


An issue not covered in the RUS is that of high demand, and therefore
of crowding issues, when fixtures are held at Arsenal's new Emirates
stadium. The present situation is that Drayton Park station - one of
the closest to the stadium - is closed when most events take place.
Historically this is because of the restricted operating hours of the
Moorgate line. It would obviously be beneficial for the line to be
opened at these times, but First Capital Connect have made it clear
that even if the line were open they would keep Drayton Park closed
because its narrow island platform and booking hall access could not
cope with the expected crowds. However opposite the present platform,
on the down side, there is vacant land on which an additional platform
could be built. London TravelWatch considers that this should be done
as
soon as possible, and we understand that S106 money may be obtainable
as a contribution to such a scheme. This would benefit passengers for
whom the Drayton Park route is convenient, and users of other local
stations who would experience less congestion as a result.

http://www.islington.gov.uk/Council/...06/09/2622.asp
quote
£2.5 million earmarked for Drayton Park Station
Date: 08-Sep-06 by charles dean

Islington Council is to investigate how to make it easier for fans to
attend matches at Arsenal football stadium.

A feasibility study looking at major improvements to Drayton Park
Station is underway, and if the plans prove viable then £2.5million
could be spent on increasing rail capacity, so more people can travel
by train.

As part of the planning conditions for the new Emirates stadium in
Ashburton Grove, it was agreed that a feasibility study be carried out
to investigate rail capacity options for the station.

Three main areas will be looked at as part of the study:

* enhancing and improving the station and its facilities
* extending train services through Drayton Park, on the line
connecting Finsbury Park, Drayton Park and Highbury and Islington
* extending train services between Finsbury Park and Moorgate.

At least £500,000 will be spent on station improvements, and if it
proves viable to extend train services later in the evenings and on
weekends, then up to £2million will be made available.

Cllr Terry Stacy, Executive Member for Housing and Communities, said:
"This study will look at the role Drayton Park plays on match days, as
well as supporting the regeneration of the surrounding area.

"We are delighted to be working with train company, First Capital
Connect, and the London Development Agency to examine options for
improving the station and local train services. Working together has
already paid off with improved rail services via Finsbury Park on
match days".

For further information please contact Helen Fallon, Senior Transport
Planner, on 020 7527 2785.

Ends


Notes to Editors:

The London Development Agency will fund the study, the outcome of
which is likely to be announced later this year.

unquote

Tom Anderson wrote in uk.transport.london on Tue, 2 Oct 2007 00:01:47
+0100 .li:

http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/document/2940/get
[snip perverse desire for exorcism of 313s]
"An issue not covered in the RUS is that of high demand, and therefore of
crowding issues, when fixtures are held at Arsenals new Emirates stadium."

"The present situation is that Drayton Park station one of the closest to
the stadium is closed when most events take place."

"Historically this is because of the restricted operating hours of the
Moorgate line. It would obviously be beneficial for the line to be opened
at these times, but First Capital Connect have made it clear that even if
the line were open they would keep Drayton Park closed because its narrow
island platform and booking hall access could not cope with the expected
crowds.

Which excuse is, patently, unmitigated bollox. There's a large paved
area outside the station at street level which would be ideal for
queuing, as happens at every other station near a football/other large
capacity venue, and as used to happen at Gillespie Road.

The difference is, I think. more to do with the fact that pretty well
everywhere else it is LU who provide the staff for crowd/barrier
control, whereas this would eat into FCC's profits.

--
hike
- a walking tour or outing, esp. of the self-conscious kind
Chambers 20th Century Dictionary

On Oct 2, 10:11 am, Dave Hillam ] wrote:
"Historically this is because of the restricted operating hours of the
Moorgate line. It would obviously be beneficial for the line to be opened
at these times, but First Capital Connect have made it clear that even if
the line were open they would keep Drayton Park closed because its narrow
island platform and booking hall access could not cope with the expected
crowds.

Which excuse is, patently, unmitigated bollox. There's a large paved
area outside the station at street level which would be ideal for
queuing, as happens at every other station near a football/other large
capacity venue, and as used to happen at Gillespie Road.

The difference is, I think. more to do with the fact that pretty well
everywhere else it is LU who provide the staff for crowd/barrier
control, whereas this would eat into FCC's profits.

A case perhaps for transferring the route to London Overground?