On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:17:04 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

Evening all,

It frequently strikes me, when considering the geography of the terra
incognita called 'South London', that there is an amazingly large region
with no railway stations in the Walworth area. If you draw a line through
Elephant & Castle, Kennington, Oval, Stockwell, Brixton, Loughborough
Junction, Denmark Hill, Peckham Rye, Queen's Road Peckham, South
Bermondsey, Bermondsey, Borough, and back to Elephant, you have an area
within which there are no other railway stations of any sort (other than
disused, anyway) [1]. That's a huge area, about equal to the area
encircled by the Inner Ring Road, and densely populated. It's shocking
there's no railway service there - but perhaps not suprising when you
consider that it's also largely a very deprived area. When the stations on
the Holborn line were open, it was a lot smaller, but still pretty huge.

Anyway, are there any other notable rail deserts like this? There's one
around Dulwich, but a lot of that's open ground, so it probably has fewer
people in it. There's another huge one in the Thames Gateway, south of the
District line, north of the Beckton branch of the DLR, east of the
Stratford branch (a year ago, east of the NLL), and west of, crumbs,
Dagenham Dock? Twice the size of the Walworth desert, although currently
containing a lot of industrial land. Most of the outer suburbs of London
are like this, i suppose - the surprising thing about the Walworth one is
that it's so central.

Isn't this down to the tram network that existed in South London,
which limited penetration by the Underground and also overground
railways?

Maybe a tram map from c.1900 might help?
--
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

On Oct 25, 9:26 pm, Terry Harper wrote:
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:17:04 +0100, Tom Anderson



wrote:
Evening all,

It frequently strikes me, when considering the geography of the terra
incognita called 'South London', that there is an amazingly large region
with no railway stations in the Walworth area. If you draw a line through
Elephant & Castle, Kennington, Oval, Stockwell, Brixton, Loughborough
Junction, Denmark Hill, Peckham Rye, Queen's Road Peckham, South
Bermondsey, Bermondsey, Borough, and back to Elephant, you have an area
within which there are no other railway stations of any sort (other than
disused, anyway) [1]. That's a huge area, about equal to the area
encircled by the Inner Ring Road, and densely populated. It's shocking
there's no railway service there - but perhaps not suprising when you
consider that it's also largely a very deprived area. When the stations on
the Holborn line were open, it was a lot smaller, but still pretty huge.

Anyway, are there any other notable rail deserts like this? There's one
around Dulwich, but a lot of that's open ground, so it probably has fewer
people in it. There's another huge one in the Thames Gateway, south of the
District line, north of the Beckton branch of the DLR, east of the
Stratford branch (a year ago, east of the NLL), and west of, crumbs,
Dagenham Dock? Twice the size of the Walworth desert, although currently
containing a lot of industrial land. Most of the outer suburbs of London
are like this, i suppose - the surprising thing about the Walworth one is
that it's so central.

Isn't this down to the tram network that existed in South London,
which limited penetration by the Underground and also overground
railways?

Maybe a tram map from c.1900 might help?

It's also an area that will benefit from the Crossriver tram if that
ever gets off the ground. Though a station at Camberwell Green (and
perhaps another at Walworth) on the Blackfriars line would also be
welcome.

That area is actually pretty well served by buses, though. I lived
down there for four years and so got out of the habit of getting the
tube that even though I now live in King's Cross, which is hardly
short of tubes, I still tend to either bus it or walk everywhere.

Jonn

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007, wrote:

On Oct 25, 9:26 pm, Terry Harper wrote:
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:17:04 +0100, Tom Anderson

wrote:

It frequently strikes me, when considering the geography of the terra
incognita called 'South London', that there is an amazingly large region
with no railway stations in the Walworth area.

Isn't this down to the tram network that existed in South London, which
limited penetration by the Underground and also overground railways?

Perhaps. There was certainly a tram route along the Old Kent Road. But
surely the main age of growth of the railways was before the age of trams?

Maybe a tram map from c.1900 might help?

Good idea. I don't have one to hand, but next time i come across one, i
shall examine it.

It's also an area that will benefit from the Crossriver tram if that
ever gets off the ground. Though a station at Camberwell Green (and
perhaps another at Walworth) on the Blackfriars line would also be
welcome.

Absolutely. But even then, there's a huge railless region to the east of
that line.

That area is actually pretty well served by buses, though.

Oh, of course. I wasn't saying there was no public transport in that area,
just nothing that goes on rails. The Old Kent Road is a bus superhighway.
This must be a response to the lack of trains, rather than a cause for it,
though - there's no reason you couldn't have had bus services like that in
Islington or something, where plenty of railways got built.

tom

--
I don't know kung fu, I AM kung fu.

In message , Tom
Anderson writes

There was certainly a tram route along the Old Kent Road.

The tram network in South London was very extensive and included
services along most main roads in the inner south-east of London.

But surely the main age of growth of the railways was before the age of
trams?

True, but back then there were inner-city stations on a number of lines
and most of these were closed at an early date as a result of
competition from the trams. But of course there were then, as now, some
areas that were not served by railways, and that's where the various
tram networks really came into their own.

--
Paul Terry