This from this morning's Watford Observer. Confusion reigns, it would
seem.

THC

---

Confusion over Silverlink handover

http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/dis...ha ndover.php

A major shake-up of rail services at Watford Junction, which takes
effect on Sunday, has been blighted by confusion.

Angry commuters say obtaining information about just how much fares
will cost under the new system has been almost impossible.

And now doubt surrounds when - and if - Oyster cards will be able to
be used.

advertisementOn Sunday, Silverlink services between Watford Junction
and London Euston will be taken over by London Overground, a new
service operated by Transport for London (TFL), and London Midland.

According to London Underground, passengers using the stopping service
from Watford Junction to London Euston will be able to use Oyster
cards and enjoy reduced fares.

However those using the fast service from Watford to London - the
majority of commuters - will have to continue using paper tickets at
Silverlink rates.

A spokesperson for London Midland, the firm which will run the fast
service from Watford Junction to London Euston, said it was in talks
to introduce Oyster cards or another smart card by 2010.

For more on this story, and more information about fare prices, see
today's Watford Observer.

"THC" wrote in message
ups.com...
This from this morning's Watford Observer. Confusion reigns, it would
seem.

THC

---

Confusion over Silverlink handover

http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/dis...ha ndover.php

A major shake-up of rail services at Watford Junction, which takes
effect on Sunday, has been blighted by confusion.

Angry commuters say obtaining information about just how much fares
will cost under the new system has been almost impossible.


Completely predictable, but its basically down to pax 'presuming' changes
are going to occur, even when none have been announced. Most discussions
here have repeatedly touched on similar issues. The main one here is that WJ
is not currently in the zonal fares system, and you might expect regular WJ
commuters to know that already. Anyway, availability of Oyster PAYG on the
DC lines may still not result in zonal fares to WJ, just special fares
payable via PAYG, like in zones ABC&D...

Paul

On Nov 9, 10:47 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"THC" wrote in message

ups.com...



This from this morning's Watford Observer. Confusion reigns, it would
seem.

THC

---

Confusion over Silverlink handover

http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/dis...confusion_over...

A major shake-up of rail services at Watford Junction, which takes
effect on Sunday, has been blighted by confusion.

Angry commuters say obtaining information about just how much fares
will cost under the new system has been almost impossible.

Completely predictable, but its basically down to pax 'presuming' changes
are going to occur, even when none have been announced. Most discussions
here have repeatedly touched on similar issues. The main one here is that WJ
is not currently in the zonal fares system, and you might expect regular WJ
commuters to know that already. Anyway, availability of Oyster PAYG on the
DC lines may still not result in zonal fares to WJ, just special fares
payable via PAYG, like in zones ABC&D...

Paul

So currently I can buy a ticket watford junction to harrow and
wealdstone and then get on any train (that stops at H&W) without any
issue.

Presumably, on Sunday I will be able to do exactly the same, it will
make no difference?

But I can't use oyster to pay for that journey on the fast trains (I
asked at Euston last night) but I can use oyster to pay from H&W to
Euston currently. Will I be able to use my paper ticket on the DC line
still?

So the oyster fare is going to be exactly the same price as the
mainline fare but I have to make sure I buy a paper ticket and not use
oyster for the journey.

It isn't clear to me what is and isn't going to be allowed. If it's
all so obvious then why hasn't someone published it already. The cynic
in me thinks its whoever is taking over the mainline and London
underground rubbing their hands in glee at the penalty fares they are
going to collect over the next few months.

My season ticket expires on 5th December. What is the fare structure
going to be in the new year. Will WJ be zoned then? Will oyster be
valid from WJ on the fast trains? What will the prices be or at least
what will the zones be?

Tim.

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Nov 9, 10:47 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Completely predictable, but its basically down to pax 'presuming' changes
are going to occur, even when none have been announced. Most discussions
here have repeatedly touched on similar issues. The main one here is that
WJ
is not currently in the zonal fares system, and you might expect regular
WJ
commuters to know that already. Anyway, availability of Oyster PAYG on
the
DC lines may still not result in zonal fares to WJ, just special fares
payable via PAYG, like in zones ABC&D...

Paul

So currently I can buy a ticket watford junction to harrow and
wealdstone and then get on any train (that stops at H&W) without any
issue.

Presumably, on Sunday I will be able to do exactly the same, it will
make no difference?

Seems reasonable - LO is still a TOC just like Silverlink Metro was, there
timetables are still in the NR timetable for next year, and NR fares are
still shown in the usual NR web planners...

But I can't use oyster to pay for that journey on the fast trains (I
asked at Euston last night) but I can use oyster to pay from H&W to
Euston currently. Will I be able to use my paper ticket on the DC line
still?

So the oyster fare is going to be exactly the same price as the
mainline fare but I have to make sure I buy a paper ticket and not use
oyster for the journey.

That's a reasonable assumption, unless an Oyster special introductory fare
is offered, as has been mentioned in the past - but maybe that'll be NLL
only, where other TOCs aren't involved...

It isn't clear to me what is and isn't going to be allowed. If it's
all so obvious then why hasn't someone published it already. The cynic
in me thinks its whoever is taking over the mainline and London
underground rubbing their hands in glee at the penalty fares they are
going to collect over the next few months.

Perhaps the point is simply that nothing about the actual fares or validity
will change, so that's all that needs announcing?

My season ticket expires on 5th December. What is the fare structure
going to be in the new year. Will WJ be zoned then? Will oyster be
valid from WJ on the fast trains? What will the prices be or at least
what will the zones be?


Good questions, but at least some could have been equally relevant even if
the DC lines weren't transferred to TfL. I still think a lot of pax are
presuming that everything will change on Sunday, whereas all the evidence so
far is that it will more or less stay the same, barring Oyster prepay where
available, and many of the possible changes will happen in January.

Paul

On Nov 9, 12:57 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Perhaps the point is simply that nothing about the actual fares or validity
will change, so that's all that needs announcing?

But it will change, that's the point. From Sunday you WILL be able to
use Oyster to/from Watford junction. Currently (I think) you can use
it between WJ and H&W - could be Hatch End - and I think you CAN'T use
it at some of the intermediate stops.

So people at WJ are going to see a difference. At the moment, when I
arrive at WJ in the morning I have only one way to get through the
barriers (my Gold Card), on Monday I will have two ways.

Will return tickets still be available for things like WJ-Hatch End?
My partner does this regularly - IIRC the return costs 10p more than
the single - or will it be singles only - in which case she might as
well use an oyster card.

Tim.

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Nov 9, 12:57 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Perhaps the point is simply that nothing about the actual fares or
validity
will change, so that's all that needs announcing?

But it will change, that's the point. From Sunday you WILL be able to
use Oyster to/from Watford junction. Currently (I think) you can use
it between WJ and H&W - could be Hatch End - and I think you CAN'T use
it at some of the intermediate stops.

So people at WJ are going to see a difference. At the moment, when I
arrive at WJ in the morning I have only one way to get through the
barriers (my Gold Card), on Monday I will have two ways.

Will return tickets still be available for things like WJ-Hatch End?
My partner does this regularly - IIRC the return costs 10p more than
the single - or will it be singles only - in which case she might as
well use an oyster card.


Yes - all the normal fares (£3.10 CDR?) are still available, using the NR
planner - as I've said before, LO is still part of the rail network. There
must be other lines where people have to decide whether to buy a NR style
return ticket, or use Oyster - those outer bits of the Met/Chiltern for
instance?

Paul

On Nov 9, 1:55 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Yes - all the normal fares (£3.10 CDR?) are still available, using the NR
planner - as I've said before, LO is still part of the rail network. There
must be other lines where people have to decide whether to buy a NR style
return ticket, or use Oyster - those outer bits of the Met/Chiltern for
instance?

How will capping work? How does it work on those other lines?

I still don't understand why there isn't some web pages somewhere
laying all this out. Presumably someone has already thought about all
this - or are they waiting to see which passengers complain before
deciding what to do?

I presume (given that you've said everything is charged exactly as
before) that you'll get a Zsomething-6 cap plus singles between Hatch
End and whatever stations you're visiting. Or maybe any journey that
starts/terminates north of Z6 will be charged at NR rates? After all,
at the moment, if you have an oyster card that's reached it's cap
you'll have to leave the DC line at H&W and then buy a NR single to
complete your journey. If you buy a NR single from say Wembley Central
you'll not get a discount for having a capped oyster card. And if you
don't touch out at H&W you'll get an unresolved journey.

At weekends there are often lots of people making these short journeys
on the DC line. (Maybe there are during the week as well but I'm
almost never on the DC line outside of a weekend). So on Sunday you're
going to get lots of people asking these questions.

(Actually, my guess is that oyster won't be ready at these stations at
the weekend so the information hasn't been published to stop people
thinking they will be able to use it)

I've got a gold card, so I can watch and see what happens but other
people currently use NR singles/returns and ODTC would like to know
the answers to some of these questions before they travel on Sunday/
Monday

Tim.