On 11 Nov, 16:35, asdf wrote:
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 14:06:23 -0000, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
It's always been like that. It's to prevent holders of (e.g.) Z2-6
Travelcards being charged a Z1 extension fare when they make those
journeys using the NLL.

Are there any cases where a travelcard holder can make a detour journey,
even an unusual one, staying entirely within validity but get charged an
extension because the system assumes a trip into zone 1?

Yes, this will happen in every such case, as the system does not know
which route the passenger actually took.

Each pair of origin/destination stations is assigned a set of zones
that the passenger is assumed to pass through when travelling between
them.

For example, Finchley Road to Barons Court would be defined as a Z12
journey. Even if you travelled via Rayners Lane, a Z2345 journey, you
would still be charged for a Z12 journey (including excess fares as
appropriate). If you held a Z2345 Travelcard season and wished to
avoid the Z1 excess fare, you could leave and re-enter the station at
Rayners Lane, so that you would instead be making two separate Z2345
journeys.

Though one would avoid any such issues if one held a paper season
Travelcard.

I'm thinking less in terms of the example you gave - the system seems
to define which journeys might go via Rayners Lane or via Zone 1
fairly sensibly (and one can work out what routing is presumed by
querying the Single Fare finder [1]) - and more in terms of journeys
along the North London Line.

For example starting at Richmond an NLL journey as far as Caledonian
Road and Barnsbury is defined as avoiding zone 1, but a journey to
Highbury & Islington (H&I) and points east is defined as via zone 1.

The TfL Journey Planner actually states that the NLL route and the
Underground route via Central London both have broadly the same
journey times. Of course the NLL is less frequent than the
Underground, and the NLL is perhaps more prone to disruption. But the
NLL is easy - all the way there without a change (though at peak times
it gets pretty packed).

But if the routing logic has been applied to season Travelcards on
Oyster as well as Oyster PAYG (and it would follow that the same logic
applies to both) then whichever route one takes from Richmond to H&I
one would be charged for a via zone 1 journey.

This also leads on to the possibility that some people who have a
zones 2-4 Travelcard on Oyster and normally take the NLL route will be
charged extra for presumed zone 1 journeys starting from yesterday -
which I can imagine causing utmost confusion!

It also raises the possibility that only some people with such
Travelcards on Oyster would be charged this extra if they touched-in
and out - so those who go through an NLL gated station at the start or
end of their journey will get charged the extra, whilst those who
don't and just enter or exit the station without touching-in or out
won't get charged the extra. (The Oyster T&Cs do state that everyone
should touch-in or out regardless of whether they are using PAYG or a
Travelcard, but as far as I can see this is not enforced.)

The point being, it would seem that for some longer Overground / NLL
journeys such as Richmond to H&I passengers might actually be better
off with a paper Travelcard.

I think some testing on the ground might be called for!

Just one other thing - will LO stations continue to sell paper season
Travelcards, or will they be phased out?


Conversely, this also means that if your journey is defined as not
being via Z1, you can legally travel via Z1 and not get charged the
via-Z1 fare.

I agree with that.

Just to apply this to my Richmond to H&I example - a Richmond to
Caledonian Road & Barnsbury journey is defined as avoiding zone 1, so
it would appear one could in fact travel via central London to H&I
(e.g. via the Victoria line) and then change for the NLL one stop west
to Caledonian Road & Barnsbury and be charged for a non-zone 1
journey. Though to be blunt you'd probably be best off going direct
via the NLL - unless, of course, a part of it wasn't running (as will
be the case next weekend when Richmond to Acton Central will be
closed).


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[1] TfL Single Fare finder
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...07/farefinder/