After the Ball is over - Waterloo International
 

http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/3001

quote
The international terminal at Waterloo Station will be out of use for
more than a year before the platforms are used by domestic rail
services, the government has confirmed.

Waterloo has enjoyed a direct link to Paris and Brussels since
November 1994

The final trains between Waterloo and Paris and Brussels will run on
Tuesday 13 November.
Eurostar's London terminal will move to St Pancras from the start of
service on Wednesday 14 November, thirteen years to the day since the
Eurostar service began operations.
A banner above the Eurostar concourse says "Goodbye to all our friends
at Waterloo". The last public train service will be the 7.58pm arrival
from Paris.
Responding to a question from shadow transport secretary Theresa
Villiers, rail minister Tom Harris wrote: "Officials at the Department
for Transport are continuing to work closely with Network Rail and
Stagecoach South West Trains (the train operating company) to finalise
the design and costs associated with the partial conversion of
Waterloo International potentially to accommodate limited domestic
passenger services from December 2008."
Waterloo International has five platforms (numbered 20 to 24) and was
designed by Nicholas Grimshaw to accommodate the quarter-of-a-mile-
long Eurostar trains which are far longer than any domestic train.
Three stage strategy for Waterloo
Last week Network Rail published its business plan for 2009 to 2014.
This is what it says about Waterloo:
"A three stage strategy for the development of Waterloo station has
been agreed between DfT [Department for Transport] and Network Rail.
The first stage allows a limited number of domestic train services to
utilise elements of the Waterloo International Terminal (WIT) from
December 2008, following the vacation of the facility by Eurostar
services in November 2007.
"Stage two enables the use of the entire WIT facility, providing at
least 10-car capability to all platforms at Waterloo.
The proposal will seek to maximise commercial property opportunities
"Beyond CP4 [ie after 2014], stage 3 proposes to re-develop the entire
Waterloo site, integrating the WIT into a new enhanced facility with
at least 12-car capability to all platforms and a significantly
enlarged concourse, to provide appropriate capacity for the longer
term. The proposal will seek to maximise commercial property
opportunities."
Network Rail proposes to move the station concourse to ground level to
link in with the recently announced Waterloo City Square plans.
New Waterloo to St Pancras bus link
Transport for London has announced that bus route 59, which runs from
Streatham Hill to Euston via Waterloo, will be extended to St Pancras
and King's Cross from Saturday 10 November.
"The extension of route 59 will give a direct journey option between
Waterloo, St Pancras and King's Cross," says John Barry, head of
network development for London Buses. "It also creates new bus links
for Brixton and Kennington."
The change comes following a review of the existing service and
reflects requests received from a number of passenger groups,
including London TravelWatch.
Route 59 runs every 8 minutes during the day and every 12 minutes in
the evening on Monday-Saturday and every 12 minutes on Sundays.
Leake Street
Leake Street, the dingy tunnel that runs below Waterloo Station
between Lower Marsh and York Road, will be closed to vehicle traffic
once Waterloo International shuts. Network Rail is taking over
responsibility for the street which provides an important pedestrian
link between the shopping area in Lower Marsh and the South Bank.
unquote

As the closure of Waterloo International has been foreseen for at
least three/four years why is there now a year's delay in redeploying
the assets?

After the Ball is over - Waterloo International
 

Mwmbwls wrote:
http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/3001


As the closure of Waterloo International has been foreseen for at
least three/four years why is there now a year's delay in redeploying
the assets?


On an infrastructure level any remodeling of the Waterloo throat would
obviously have to wait until the Eurostar services finished. A project
of that scale would take a substantial amount of time - Waverley's taken
a year and it's a far smaller station.

A.

After the Ball is over - Waterloo International
 

"Andrew" wrote in message
.uk...
Mwmbwls wrote:
http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/3001


As the closure of Waterloo International has been foreseen for at
least three/four years why is there now a year's delay in redeploying
the assets?


On an infrastructure level any remodeling of the Waterloo throat would
obviously have to wait until the Eurostar services finished. A project of
that scale would take a substantial amount of time - Waverley's taken a
year and it's a far smaller station.

A.
If they are going to put SWT main-line services into the former
International platforms they will have to cross the busy Windsor-line tracks
so presumably an expensive fly-over or fly-under will have to be built. The
present means of SWT main-line to reach this side of the station at
Waterloo is via the East Putney and Point Pleasant Junction. I.E. Trains
would have to leave the main-line at Wimbledon for the District Line as far
as East Putney then branch here to Point Pleasant Junction, a slow route and
uncacceptable time penalty

A far better solution for the International Platforms would be for South
Eastern main line trains which at present have to negotiate the congested
Borough Market tracks to reach Charing Cross. The Infrastructure to divert
these is all in place curtesy of Eurostar, and use paths vacated by the
Eurostar trains
Charing Cross route would be downgraded and less congested as only used by
suburban trains. For the die-hards who want to go to London Bridge or
Charing Cross then they could transfer to Waterloo East.

After the Ball is over - Waterloo International
 

On 8 Nov, 10:21, "Alan Osborn" wrote:
"Andrew" wrote in message

.uk... Mwmbwls wrote:
http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/3001

As the closure of Waterloo International has been foreseen for at
least three/four years why is there now a year's delay in redeploying
the assets?

On an infrastructure level any remodeling of the Waterloo throat would
obviously have to wait until the Eurostar services finished. A project of
that scale would take a substantial amount of time - Waverley's taken a
year and it's a far smaller station.

A.

If they are going to put SWT main-line services into the former
International platforms they will have to cross the busy Windsor-line tracks
so presumably an expensive fly-over or fly-under will have to be built. The
present means of SWT main-line to reach this side of the station at
Waterloo is via the East Putney and Point Pleasant Junction. I.E. Trains
would have to leave the main-line at Wimbledon for the District Line as far
as East Putney then branch here to Point Pleasant Junction, a slow route and
uncacceptable time penalty

A far better solution for the International Platforms would be for South
Eastern main line trains which at present have to negotiate the congested
Borough Market tracks to reach Charing Cross. The Infrastructure to divert
these is all in place curtesy of Eurostar, and use paths vacated by the
Eurostar trains
Charing Cross route would be downgraded and less congested as only used by
suburban trains. For the die-hards who want to go to London Bridge or
Charing Cross then they could transfer to Waterloo East.

This sounds a good idea imho, at least while London Bridge/TLK is
being rebuilt

After the Ball is over - Waterloo International
 

"kytelly" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 8 Nov, 10:21, "Alan Osborn" wrote:

A far better solution for the International Platforms would be for South
Eastern main line trains which at present have to negotiate the
congested
Borough Market tracks to reach Charing Cross. The Infrastructure to
divert
these is all in place curtesy of Eurostar, and use paths vacated by the
Eurostar trains
Charing Cross route would be downgraded and less congested as only used
by
suburban trains. For the die-hards who want to go to London Bridge or
Charing Cross then they could transfer to Waterloo East.

This sounds a good idea imho, at least while London Bridge/TLK is
being rebuilt

There are 5 main line trains into Charing Cross in the peak hour, or 8 if
you include trains starting from Tunbridge Wells, and nowhere near enough
paths for them between Bickley Junction and Linford Street Junction,
especially as, after pressure from TfL, the E paths have been allocated to
increasing frequencies of Victoria - Beckenham Junction - Orpington
stoppers. Even if trains have to be diverted away from Charing Cross during
Thameslink works, and paths can be found for them on the Chatham line,
Victoria (Chatham side) has spare capacity since the Boat Trains left.

Peter

After the Ball is over - Waterloo International
 

On Nov 8, 11:05 am, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"kytelly" wrote in message

oups.com...

On 8 Nov, 10:21, "Alan Osborn" wrote:

A far better solution for the International Platforms would be for South
Eastern main line trains which at present have to negotiate the
congested
Borough Market tracks to reach Charing Cross. The Infrastructure to
divert
these is all in place curtesy of Eurostar, and use paths vacated by the
Eurostar trains
Charing Cross route would be downgraded and less congested as only used
by
suburban trains. For the die-hards who want to go to London Bridge or
Charing Cross then they could transfer to Waterloo East.

This sounds a good idea imho, at least while London Bridge/TLK is
being rebuilt

There are 5 main line trains into Charing Cross in the peak hour, or 8 if
you include trains starting from Tunbridge Wells, and nowhere near enough
paths for them between Bickley Junction and Linford Street Junction,
especially as, after pressure from TfL, the E paths have been allocated to
increasing frequencies of Victoria - Beckenham Junction - Orpington
stoppers. Even if trains have to be diverted away from Charing Cross during
Thameslink works, and paths can be found for them on the Chatham line,
Victoria (Chatham side) has spare capacity since the Boat Trains left.

Peter

Can Waterloo International now be regarded as a closed station?

Neill

After the Ball is over - Waterloo International
 

On Nov 8, 11:17 am, Neillw001 wrote:
Can Waterloo International now be regarded as a closed station?

It was never really a station. Just a few platforms walled off from
the rest of the station.

B2003

After the Ball is over - Waterloo International
 

On 8 Nov, 11:05, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"kytelly" wrote in message

oups.com...



On 8 Nov, 10:21, "Alan Osborn" wrote:

A far better solution for the International Platforms would be for South
Eastern main line trains which at present have to negotiate the
congested
Borough Market tracks to reach Charing Cross. The Infrastructure to
divert
these is all in place curtesy of Eurostar, and use paths vacated by the
Eurostar trains
Charing Cross route would be downgraded and less congested as only used
by
suburban trains. For the die-hards who want to go to London Bridge or
Charing Cross then they could transfer to Waterloo East.

This sounds a good idea imho, at least while London Bridge/TLK is
being rebuilt

There are 5 main line trains into Charing Cross in the peak hour, or 8 if
you include trains starting from Tunbridge Wells, and nowhere near enough
paths for them between Bickley Junction and Linford Street Junction,
especially as, after pressure from TfL, the E paths have been allocated to
increasing frequencies of Victoria - Beckenham Junction - Orpington
stoppers. Even if trains have to be diverted away from Charing Cross during
Thameslink works, and paths can be found for them on the Chatham line,
Victoria (Chatham side) has spare capacity since the Boat Trains left.

Peter-

Yes; whenever this topic comes up, I comment that the problems are
with the approaches and not the capacity at termini, therefore not
addressed by freeing up more platforms at Waterloo.

The South Eastern side of Victoria is very underused, and Waterloo,
with its long turnaround times compared with somewhere like Charing
Cross, isn't exactly stretched.

The problems are Borough Market, the two two-track routes between
Bromley and Victoria and the two-track route through Queenstown Road
on the "Windsor" side.

It is true that there are capacity problems at Waterloo due to
platform lengths, but the Eurostar platforms are on the wrong side to
help much.

Incidentally, I note an interim stage in plans for Waterloo to be
increasing platform lengths to 10. With most trains in units of 4,
this isn't going to make much difference.

After the Ball is over - Waterloo International
 

On 8 Nov, 11:50, MIG wrote:

Yes; whenever this topic comes up, I comment that the problems are
with the approaches and not the capacity at termini, therefore not
addressed by freeing up more platforms at Waterloo.

The South Eastern side of Victoria is very underused, and Waterloo,
with its long turnaround times compared with somewhere like Charing
Cross, isn't exactly stretched.

The problems are Borough Market, the two two-track routes between
Bromley and Victoria and the two-track route through Queenstown Road
on the "Windsor" side.

But that doesn't explain why they're not planning to send some
suburban Charing Cross trains to Waterloo via Lewisham and Peckham
Rye. That would help to free up the Borough Market tracks without
adding to congestion between Bromley and Victoria.

After the Ball is over - Waterloo International
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
On 8 Nov, 11:50, MIG wrote:

Yes; whenever this topic comes up, I comment that the problems are
with the approaches and not the capacity at termini, therefore not
addressed by freeing up more platforms at Waterloo.

The South Eastern side of Victoria is very underused, and Waterloo,
with its long turnaround times compared with somewhere like Charing
Cross, isn't exactly stretched.

The problems are Borough Market, the two two-track routes between
Bromley and Victoria and the two-track route through Queenstown Road
on the "Windsor" side.

But that doesn't explain why they're not planning to send some
suburban Charing Cross trains to Waterloo via Lewisham and Peckham
Rye. That would help to free up the Borough Market tracks without
adding to congestion between Bromley and Victoria.


They probably see no point in doing something temporarily, which can't
continue once the Nine Elms flyover is demolished to rework the station
approaches properly. From the NR documents it has basically already been
decided that the platforms will be used by SWT during the coming Waterloo
rebuild. The WIT report on the DfT site suggests that there is only capacity
for 6-8 trains per hour from the Nine Elms flyover, as it is only single
track.

Paul