On 11 Nov, 20:30, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote in message

ups.com...

[crossposted to uk.transport.london and uk.railway]

Lots of other comments have already been made as to what the new
branding will be, whether existing trains will get new liveries, what
signs will be replaced and when. I don't think ephemeral changes such
as this are really the important ones - it's real changes that people
care about.

...... of the places where there have been significant rebuilds. Instead
of pokey ticket office windows (which used not to be open for business
that often anyway) there are now large all-seeing windows, and a
number of stations are having ticket gates installed (I noticedbrand
new ones at Acton Central just the other day).

I always think that is an improvement many older tube stations should
have...

Some LU stations at least will be listed I suppose.

Why is it that the Victorians deemed that railway booking office
windows were to be pokey little holes?


Many of the stations have also recently been painted. I suspect this
was TfL funded too, though it may have been National Express (owner of
Silverlink) making a rather late and forlorn attempt at impressing TfL
so they might be in with a chance of winning the concession to operate
the LO service. But the point is stations are now starting to look
clean and cared for, rather than grotty unkempt untidy graffiti-ridden
holes.

A number of recent threads have mentioned that LO branding wouldn't appear
unless a particular station has reached an acceptable state, so that state
must be typified by Highbury & Islington, where the platform name boards are
LO style including the orangeroundel, I wasn't too impressed by the white
on orange text for the station name though. So IMHO there are a couple
along towards Willesden Junction that meet that sort of condition and could
be 'LO'd' quickly. Also heard from a fellow traveller that the LO platforms
at Harrow and Wealdstone have been 'done'.

Woah - hold your horses! Take a look at this post on "The Transport
Forum" which is a fairly authoratative sounding report on a talk given
at the LT Museum on the upcoming Overground rebranding exercise (I
think I found the thread because of a reference to it here on utl,
either that or when I was perusing the District Dave forums):
http://billz1064.proboards1.com/inde...d=119067291 3

First off there are going to be signs such as the one you saw at
Highbury & Islington - akin to conventional station name boards - as
can be seen courtesy of these Flickr contributors:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8197729@N04/1972512679/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tompagenet/1969527149/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tompagenet/1969520873/

The post said they'd "temporary sign" written on them but this appears
not to be. The latter two photos show that the new sign is in fact
just a sticker stuck over the old name board.

Crucially though the post there will be a second stage to this
branding process - when the stations are up to the required standard
(i.e. not for a while) then they will receive a proper LU style name
board - i.e. the stations name will feature in the horizontal blue bar
of the roundel.


Lastly, I'm pretty sure that someone's actually got round to washing
many of the previously dirty seat cushions on the class 313 trains.
This shouldn't be a miracle, but it is! These trains only have to last
until next year, so I don't expect big changes (or a new damn livery)
but if TfL can ensure they each get a bit of an internal scrub - or
even (to use the fashionable term) a 'deep-clean' - then it'd be a
great and very visible improvement.

Can report some trains have a large black on white vinyl 'LondonOverground'
on the side, the one I travelled in had good clear Overground network maps
and up to date 'tube+overground' maps fittted neatly over the old Silverlink
maps, many pax seemed quite interested in these...

Paul S

The white vinyl sticker on the train can be seen he
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tompagenet/1970358860/

(Flickr's amazing/bizarre - someone always seems to have taken a photo
of the thing you want to look at and actually uploaded it and tagged
it - at least this often seems to be the case with regards to London
transport... er, 'things' !).

Regarding the interior maps in the 313s - I might be wrong here but as
I recall Silverlink's maps as being somewhat less than helpful. They'd
have one map that showed the Tube Map - but not the outer reaches of
the network, and I don't think it featured the North London Line! The
other map was a diagram of all the Silverlink Metro routes (and was a
somewhat less than pleasing design). I'd often see passengers looking
bemused as they looked from one map to the other and tried to mesh the
information together in their head.

"Mizter T" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 11 Nov, 20:30, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote in message

ups.com...

[crossposted to uk.transport.london and uk.railway]

Lots of other comments have already been made as to what the new
branding will be, whether existing trains will get new liveries, what
signs will be replaced and when. I don't think ephemeral changes such
as this are really the important ones - it's real changes that people
care about.

...... of the places where there have been significant rebuilds.
Instead
of pokey ticket office windows (which used not to be open for business
that often anyway) there are now large all-seeing windows, and a
number of stations are having ticket gates installed (I noticedbrand
new ones at Acton Central just the other day).

I always think that is an improvement many older tube stations should
have...

Some LU stations at least will be listed I suppose.

Why is it that the Victorians deemed that railway booking office
windows were to be pokey little holes?



A number of recent threads have mentioned that LO branding wouldn't
appear
unless a particular station has reached an acceptable state, so that
state
must be typified by Highbury & Islington, where the platform name boards
are
LO style including the orangeroundel, I wasn't too impressed by the white
on orange text for the station name though. So IMHO there are a couple
along towards Willesden Junction that meet that sort of condition and
could
be 'LO'd' quickly. Also heard from a fellow traveller that the LO
platforms
at Harrow and Wealdstone have been 'done'.

Woah - hold your horses! Take a look at this post on "The Transport
Forum" which is a fairly authoratative sounding report on a talk given
at the LT Museum on the upcoming Overground rebranding exercise

Yes I'd seen that too - I probably shouldn't have used the word 'done'
which could imply the job was completed, I was really just saying that it
appears to me that there are other stations that look as good as or better
than H&I that could also be 'done' in the same way, ie with the orange
vinyl over the existing name boards at least.

I know there are eventually '3D' roundels etc to go up, in fact I saw one
wrapped up on the floor at Willesden platform 2 yesterday, where it looked
like some sort of production company were assembling a stage set, presumably
for a launch of sorts.

Paul S

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007, Mizter T wrote:

On 11 Nov, 20:30, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote in message

ups.com...

[crossposted to uk.transport.london and uk.railway]

...... of the places where there have been significant rebuilds.
Instead of pokey ticket office windows (which used not to be open for
business that often anyway) there are now large all-seeing windows,
and a number of stations are having ticket gates installed (I
noticedbrand new ones at Acton Central just the other day).

I always think that is an improvement many older tube stations should
have...

Some LU stations at least will be listed I suppose.

Why is it that the Victorians deemed that railway booking office windows
were to be pokey little holes?

For defensive purposes. The lessons of Rorke's Drift had been learned.

The white vinyl sticker on the train can be seen he
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tompagenet/1970358860/

(Flickr's amazing/bizarre - someone always seems to have taken a photo
of the thing you want to look at and actually uploaded it and tagged it
- at least this often seems to be the case with regards to London
transport... er, 'things' !).

It's not that bizarre - i take pictures of interesting things and upload
them, and there are millions of other nerds like me, so why not?

tom

[1] Well, i think they're interesting:

http://flickr.com/photos/twic/

--
Work alone does not suffice: the efforts must be intelligent. -- Charles
B. Rogers

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007, wrote:

Innes Ferguson, TFL Design Manager, say that the Class 313s will be
lettered black New Johnston-on-white which implies some sort of sticker
but it wasn't clear if this would read "London Overground" or "Transport
for London", nor if the roundel would be included.

I thought i saw an LO-liveried train at Ilford depot on saturday. I was
passing through, looked out of the window, and saw a train of modern
design, painted white, with an orange strip above the windows. I was on
the wrong side of the carriage, and reacting too slowly, to get a look at
the space below the windows, so it could have been something else
entirely.

tom

--
Work alone does not suffice: the efforts must be intelligent. -- Charles
B. Rogers

On 12 Nov, 12:29, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote in message

ups.com...



On 11 Nov, 20:30, "Paul Scott" wrote:
A number of recent threads have mentioned that LO branding wouldn't
appear
unless a particular station has reached an acceptable state, so that
state
must be typified by Highbury & Islington, where the platform name boards
are
LO style including the orangeroundel, I wasn't too impressed by the white
on orange text for the station name though. So IMHO there are a couple
along towards Willesden Junction that meet that sort of condition and
could
be 'LO'd' quickly. Also heard from a fellow traveller that the LO
platforms
at Harrow and Wealdstone have been 'done'.

Woah - hold your horses! Take a look at this post on "The Transport
Forum" which is a fairly authoratative sounding report on a talk given
at the LT Museum on the upcoming Overground rebranding exercise

Yes I'd seen that too - I probably shouldn't have used the word 'done'
which could imply the job was completed, I was really just saying that it
appears to me that there are other stations that look as good as or better
than H&I that could also be 'done' in the same way, ie with the orange
vinyl over the existing name boards at least.

I guess that all the stations will have had this interim treatment by
the end of the week so it's not really a big deal which ones get done
early on. That said, High & I is a major interchange point for the
NLL, so doing it early means the 'London Overground' name will be seen
by lots of people from the get-go of the new arrangements.


I know there are eventually '3D' roundels etc to go up, in fact I saw one
wrapped up on the floor at Willesden platform 2 yesterday, where it looked
like some sort of production company were assembling a stage set, presumably
for a launch of sorts.


There was a public launch this morning - this BBC online article
doesn't say where or have any photos (at least not at the moment), but
from what you say it sounds like it was at Willesden Junction:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7090232.stm

On 12 Nov, 12:56, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 12 Nov 2007, wrote:
Innes Ferguson, TFL Design Manager, say that the Class 313s will be
lettered black New Johnston-on-white which implies some sort of sticker
but it wasn't clear if this would read "London Overground" or "Transport
for London", nor if the roundel would be included.

I thought i saw an LO-liveried train at Ilford depot on saturday. I was
passing through, looked out of the window, and saw a train of modern
design, painted white, with an orange strip above the windows. I was on
the wrong side of the carriage, and reacting too slowly, to get a look at
the space below the windows, so it could have been something else
entirely.

tom


Might well have been something else entirely, I dunno.

Anyway Tom Page took this picture of what I think is a class 313 train
at Highbury & Islington - it just has a simple sticker on the side of
the train stating "London Overground" in New Johnson type on a white
background.

I don't see there as being any great need to re-livery these trains as
they'll start to be replaced sometime next year (or is it 2009?)
anyway. Properly cleaning the interior would be a most welcome move
though!

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007, Mizter T wrote:

(snip)

(Flickr's amazing/bizarre - someone always seems to have taken a photo
of the thing you want to look at and actually uploaded it and tagged it
- at least this often seems to be the case with regards to London
transport... er, 'things' !).

It's not that bizarre - i take pictures of interesting things and upload
them, and there are millions of other nerds like me, so why not?

tom

[1] Well, i think they're interesting:

http://flickr.com/photos/twic/


What I really meant to convey was that the whole phenomenon is a bit
bizarre - or perhaps that should just read novel - as opposed to the
people who do it. Though undoubtedly a few of them are a bit bizarre
as well!

I guess also there's a bit of me that finds it mildly unnerving that
there are some many nerds out there! Of course, I am one as well, I
suppose - well, I've got to be, posting here, right?!

The other perhaps more serious point is that I'm always very aware
that Flickr, like other online 'communities', is a self-selecting,
partial and somewhat unrepresentative window on the world. Which I
realise is a statement so broad as to be pretty much meaningless, but
I'd struggle to articulately expand on that whilst still staying
relatively concise. So I'm not going to.

But yes, you're quite right - I am interested by your Flickr gallery -
in fact I have in the past had a virtual wander around it when you
linked to something on there from here, because I'm nosey like that.
You look very fetching as a Princess, though I can't say I'm wildly
impressed with your geographical awareness of south London! I should
get on the Flickr case myself.

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007, Mizter T wrote:

On 12 Nov, 12:56, Tom Anderson wrote:

I thought i saw an LO-liveried train at Ilford depot on saturday. I was
passing through, looked out of the window, and saw a train of modern
design, painted white, with an orange strip above the windows. I was on
the wrong side of the carriage, and reacting too slowly, to get a look
at the space below the windows, so it could have been something else
entirely.

Might well have been something else entirely, I dunno.

Anyway Tom Page took this picture of what I think is a class 313 train
at Highbury & Islington - it just has a simple sticker on the side of
the train stating "London Overground" in New Johnson type on a white
background.

Yes, i saw that after posting. Hmm.

The thing i saw actually looked rather like this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/davearquati/1844558401/

So perhaps it was a Eurostar. Don't know why one of those would be in
Ilford, though. I don't think any One trains are liveried anything like
that.

I don't see there as being any great need to re-livery these trains as
they'll start to be replaced sometime next year (or is it 2009?) anyway.

My theory was that it was a trial of some new livery planned for the
eventual new stock. Although that would seem like an odd thing to do.

tom

--
Love as a principle and order as the basis; progress as the goal.

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 07:30:38 -0800, Mizter T
wrote:

On 12 Nov, 12:56, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 12 Nov 2007, wrote:
Innes Ferguson, TFL Design Manager, say that the Class 313s will be
lettered black New Johnston-on-white which implies some sort of sticker
but it wasn't clear if this would read "London Overground" or "Transport
for London", nor if the roundel would be included.

I thought i saw an LO-liveried train at Ilford depot on saturday. I was
passing through, looked out of the window, and saw a train of modern
design, painted white, with an orange strip above the windows. I was on
the wrong side of the carriage, and reacting too slowly, to get a look at
the space below the windows, so it could have been something else
entirely.

tom


Might well have been something else entirely, I dunno.

Anyway Tom Page took this picture of what I think is a class 313 train
at Highbury & Islington - it just has a simple sticker on the side of
the train stating "London Overground" in New Johnson type on a white
background.

I don't see there as being any great need to re-livery these trains as
they'll start to be replaced sometime next year (or is it 2009?)
anyway. Properly cleaning the interior would be a most welcome move
though!

There seemed to be no great hurry when LU re-liveried their own trains
into the "corporate colours" a few years ago so I wouldn't expect to
see an immediate change before trains go for whatever level of service
involves yanking off the old vinyls.

Charles Ellson wrote:

There seemed to be no great hurry when LU re-liveried their own trains
into the "corporate colours" a few years ago so I wouldn't expect to
see an immediate change before trains go for whatever level of service
involves yanking off the old vinyls.

Wasn't the Waterloo and City Line in NSE livery for years?
--
Michael Hoffman