wrote in message
...
On 17 Nov, 18:27, "Paul Scott" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On 17 Nov, 16:03, W14_Fishbourne wrote:
On Nov 17, 3:26 pm, burkey wrote:

"Hopefully now people will get the savings and service that they
deserve."

I fear that Ms Ward is mistaken if she thinks that the availability of
Oyster PAYG from Watford Junction will mean lower fares. PAYG fares
will be the same as for paper tickets from Watford Junction.

How will differential fares for London Midland and London Overground
journeys be achieved?

They don't need to be differential fares, they weren't previously with
Silverlink were they?

They are 'special fares' because they are outside the normal ' zones'. A
bit
like beyond Moor Park on the Met, but so far a bit of a secret, unless you
use the single fares finder. Nothing appears to have been published yet
about how capping will operate, either.


They do need to be differential fare if the statement that PAYG =
Paper Ticket is true

The single fare finder says:

London Euston [London Overground] to Watford Junction

Oyster single fare
£5.50 Monday to Friday from 0700 and before 1900.
£3.00 At all other times including public holidays.

Cash single fare
Special cash fares apply to selected London Overground journeys.

The NR single fare for the same journey is £7.20 (first class is
£11.00).
The NR return fare is £7.40, standard day return is £11.70.

An off-peak single is quite different from the current cash single
fare.

Sorry what I meant is that a paper NR ticket for Silverlink Metro and County
wasn't differentiated, so the same ticket (which remains available) for LO
and London MIdland, shouldn't be differentiaited either?

However on existing 'shared routes' like Chiltern/Met the NR and TfL basic
single fares are the same aren't they? It'll probably all change again with
the next Jan 08 round of NR fares changes...

BTW - are there any other routes where Oyster PAYG and first class fares are
both available?

Paul S

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:37:01 -0000,
Paul Scott wrote:


BTW - are there any other routes where Oyster PAYG and first class fares are
both available?

Watford Junction to Clapham Junction? Does Southern have first class?

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

On Nov 17, 7:37 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
wrote in message


BTW - are there any other routes where Oyster PAYG and first class fares are
both available?


Yes, the services from Liverpool Street - Stratford and Tottenham Hale
have first class fares as well as PAYG validity.

"Tim Woodall" wrote in message
e.uk...
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:37:01 -0000,
Paul Scott wrote:


BTW - are there any other routes where Oyster PAYG and first class fares
are
both available?

Watford Junction to Clapham Junction? Does Southern have first class?


Yes, I was thinking mainly of older interavailable routes though, as someone
else has posted now...

Paul

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:37:01 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

However on existing 'shared routes' like Chiltern/Met the NR and TfL basic
single fares are the same aren't they? It'll probably all change again with
the next Jan 08 round of NR fares changes...

BTW - are there any other routes where Oyster PAYG and first class fares are
both available?

Kings Cross - Finsbury Park on FCC?
Not 100% certain but does the Thameslink route have First Class? - If so
then West Hampstead (recently added to PAYG) - Elephant / L Bridge /
Moorgate.
C2C?? - again I'm not certain if they have 1st class on that route.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:37:01 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

However on existing 'shared routes' like Chiltern/Met the NR and TfL
basic
single fares are the same aren't they? It'll probably all change again
with
the next Jan 08 round of NR fares changes...

BTW - are there any other routes where Oyster PAYG and first class fares
are
both available?

Kings Cross - Finsbury Park on FCC?
Not 100% certain but does the Thameslink route have First Class? - If so
then West Hampstead (recently added to PAYG) - Elephant / L Bridge /
Moorgate.
C2C?? - again I'm not certain if they have 1st class on that route.

The Thameslink route has first class on Brighton/Gatwick - Bedford services,
but not on the Sutton - Luton route. c2c is standard class only.

Peter

wrote in message
...
On 17 Nov, 18:27, "Paul Scott" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On 17 Nov, 16:03, W14_Fishbourne wrote:
On Nov 17, 3:26 pm, burkey wrote:

"Hopefully now people will get the savings and service that they
deserve."

I fear that Ms Ward is mistaken if she thinks that the availability of
Oyster PAYG from Watford Junction will mean lower fares. PAYG fares
will be the same as for paper tickets from Watford Junction.

How will differential fares for London Midland and London Overground
journeys be achieved?

They don't need to be differential fares, they weren't previously with
Silverlink were they?

They are 'special fares' because they are outside the normal ' zones'. A
bit
like beyond Moor Park on the Met, but so far a bit of a secret, unless you
use the single fares finder. Nothing appears to have been published yet
about how capping will operate, either.

Paul S

They do need to be differential fare if the statement that PAYG =
Paper Ticket is true

The single fare finder says:

London Euston [London Overground] to Watford Junction

Oyster single fare
£5.50 Monday to Friday from 0700 and before 1900.
£3.00 At all other times including public holidays.

Cash single fare
Special cash fares apply to selected London Overground journeys.

The NR single fare for the same journey is £7.20 (first class is
£11.00).
The NR return fare is £7.40, standard day return is £11.70.

An off-peak single is quite different from the current cash single
fare.

The definition of peak is pretty different too. Clearly, no-one in
their right mind would use Oyster for a simple return journey after
the NR-defined peak [1]. Someone travelling into London before 0700
(is that restriction really early enough - it should be more like 0600
once Oyster expands into the suburbs?) and out after 1900 would be
able to make quite a saving.

[1] depending on how capping works after 09:30.


Looks like people in their right mind can use Oyster PAYG for a simple
return journey:

I now know the actual cost of an Oyster off peak return journey to WJ from
Zone 1, thanks to the journey history for 13th Nov becoming available after
yesterday's maintenance.

Northbound journey £5.50. Journey commenced after 0930, therefore the off
peak cap [1] applied to the return, at £7.30, which is 10p less than the NR
off peak (CDR) return fare to Euston.

Don't forget capping works independently of the peak/off peak fares, as has
been discussed regularly in the past. If you dont make any journeys until
1900 in the evening for instance, the zone 1 to WJ fare of £3.00 each way
would simply deduct £6.00 from your balance, and capping wouldn't occur.

OTOH If a commuting journey was made after 0700, but before 0930, returning
before 1900, you would pay £5.50 in both directions, which again is just
less than the NR standard day return.

£7.30 is the same offpeak cap value as that for Zone 1-ABCD, (shown online
in the 'fares beyond Moor Park' leaflet) presume therefore the peak cap to
WJ will be £14.00 as per ABCD.

Paul S

DERWENT Oyster agreement
Sat, 17 Nov 2007 20:01:42 +0000 (UTC), Tim Woodall


On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:37:01 -0000,
Paul Scott wrote:


BTW - are there any other routes where Oyster PAYG and first class fares are
both available?

Does Southern have first class?

Yes, you get the same seats and tables but extra doilies.

PRAR
--
http://www.i.am/prar/ and http://prar.fotopic.net/
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On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 18:04:06 +0000, PRAR wrote:

Yes, you get the same seats and tables but extra doilies.

The purpose of First Class on London commuter services is merely to
allow one to pay more for a pretty much guaranteed seat and a less
crowded atmosphere. The type of seats used is largely irrelevant.

(The First Class seats on the WCML Desiros are less comfortable and
have less legroom than the Standard ones, IMO.)

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

DERWENT Oyster agreement
Sun, 18 Nov 2007 18:34:58 GMT, (Neil
Williams)

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 18:04:06 +0000, PRAR wrote:

Yes, you get the same seats and tables but extra doilies.

The purpose of First Class on London commuter services is merely to
allow one to pay more for a pretty much guaranteed seat and a less
crowded atmosphere. The type of seats used is largely irrelevant.


I don't think either of these apply any more. First on Southern seems
crowded and full. There aren't the standees which I suppose could be
viewed as a bonus, but I doubt seats are guaranteed - even from
Haywards Heath or Hurst Green. AFAIKT First in the South East only
exists so that those few remaining people who have First Class travel
privileges (free season ticket/expesne account etc) have something to
spend it on. See for example C2C and Chiltern.

(The First Class seats on the WCML Desiros are less comfortable and
have less legroom than the Standard ones, IMO.)




PRAR
--
http://www.i.am/prar/ and http://prar.fotopic.net/
As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it. --Dick Cavett
Please reply to the newsgroup. That is why it exists.
NB Anti-spam measures in force
- If you must email me use the Reply to address and not