Exact Fare Only
 

Buses are slowed down so much with drivers getting change. And even
having £1 fare is still going to involve change (notes and £2 coins). So
why not introduce exact fare only. No change at all. The money could go
into secure boxes that the driver has no access to. This happens in
other parts of the country and maybe its been tried before in London. So
good or bad idea?
--
CJG

Exact Fare Only
 

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 18:20:58 +0100, CJG
wrote:

Buses are slowed down so much with drivers getting change. And even
having £1 fare is still going to involve change (notes and £2 coins). So
why not introduce exact fare only. No change at all. The money could go
into secure boxes that the driver has no access to. This happens in
other parts of the country and maybe its been tried before in London. So
good or bad idea?

London Buses are ahead of you.

How about no cash on the bus at all?

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/about-pay-before.shtml

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Exact Fare Only
 

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:18:11 +0100, CJG
wrote:

In message , Robert Woolley
writes
How about no cash on the bus at all?

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/about-pay-before.shtml

I knew about that. There are still benefits to paying by cash. If you
forget/lose your Oyster is just ONE example.
So why not let people still pay by cash but exact fare instead. And even
for a temporary measure for now its a good idea. Ken says buses won't be
100% cashless till 2006. So for next three years make everyone pay exact
fare and after a bit of confusion to start with things will speed up

So, let me get this right.

TfL pays for each bus to be fitted with a farebox to enforce exact
fare only.

Three years later 7,000 fare boxes get removed and thrown away at vast
expense.

What part of the phrase "value for money" does this meet?

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Exact Fare Only
 

In article , Neil Williams
writes
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:18:11 +0100, CJG
wrote:

I knew about that. There are still benefits to paying by cash. If you
forget/lose your Oyster is just ONE example.
So why not let people still pay by cash but exact fare instead. And even
for a temporary measure for now its a good idea. Ken says buses won't be
100% cashless till 2006. So for next three years make everyone pay exact
fare and after a bit of confusion to start with things will speed up

Why not let them still pay cash - at a ticket machine off the bus?
This is what is being done.

Incidentally, does anyone know if the machines allow overpayment (now
a one day bus pass is gbp2.50 - previously, of course, if you didn't
have a quid you could just buy a pass) or if they allow a gbp2 coin to
be inserted for the purchase of 2 single tickets? I always use a
Travelcard in London, so I doubt I'm going to get chance to try...

Neil

One of the reasons for this is so that the buses don't spend so long at
each stop as the driver isn't delaying pax boarding by having to issue
tickets etc. Also cuts down on the chance of theft or fraud on ticket
revenue.
--
Andrew
Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of this
communication can not be guaranteed.
Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not
associations or companies I am involved with.

Exact Fare Only
 

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:18:11 +0100, CJG
wrote:


Incidentally, does anyone know if the machines allow overpayment (now
a one day bus pass is gbp2.50 - previously, of course, if you didn't
have a quid you could just buy a pass) or if they allow a gbp2 coin to
be inserted for the purchase of 2 single tickets? I always use a
Travelcard in London, so I doubt I'm going to get chance to try...

Neil

The machines do look very similar to those found in some Pay and Display car
parks, which generally do not allow over payment, i only presume the
software on the new machines will be similar, and probably not give change
either?

Exact Fare Only
 

CJG wrote:
Buses are slowed down so much with drivers getting change.
And even having £1 fare is still going to involve change
(notes and £2 coins). So why not introduce exact fare only.
No change at all. The money could go into secure boxes that
the driver has no access to. This happens in other parts
of the country and maybe its been tried before in London.
So good or bad idea?

I recall visiting Crawley on one occasion (not my idea). Walked out of the
railway station and found the bus stop near the bus oerators office. It was
only as I got on the bus that it revealed to me that it was "Exact Fare
Only". There was absolutly nothing on the stop nor anywhere else to warn me.
Do something about that situtation and I can see no problem with the idea.

Exact Fare Only
 

"Cast_Iron" wrote in message
...
CJG wrote:
Buses are slowed down so much with drivers getting change.
And even having £1 fare is still going to involve change
(notes and £2 coins). So why not introduce exact fare only.
No change at all. The money could go into secure boxes that
the driver has no access to. This happens in other parts
of the country and maybe its been tried before in London.
So good or bad idea?

I recall visiting Crawley on one occasion (not my idea). Walked out of the
railway station and found the bus stop near the bus oerators office. It
was
only as I got on the bus that it revealed to me that it was "Exact Fare
Only". There was absolutly nothing on the stop nor anywhere else to warn
me.
Do something about that situtation and I can see no problem with the idea.

I tried to pay a £1 fare in Reading with a £5 note. The driver has no
access to change, each passenger drops a pound coin in a box as they enter.
Luckily there were enough passengers behind me to allow me to collect four
fares and stick the fiver in the box ...

Exact Fare Only
 

Ed Crowley wrote:
"Cast_Iron" wrote in message
...
CJG wrote:
Buses are slowed down so much with drivers getting change.
And even having £1 fare is still going to involve change
(notes and £2 coins). So why not introduce exact fare
only.
No change at all. The money could go into secure boxes
that
the driver has no access to. This happens in other parts
of the country and maybe its been tried before in London.
So good or bad idea?

I recall visiting Crawley on one occasion (not my idea).
Walked out of the railway station and found the bus stop
near the bus oerators office. It was only as I got on the
bus that it revealed to me that it was "Exact Fare Only".
There was absolutly nothing on the stop nor anywhere else
to warn me. Do something about that situtation and I can
see no problem with the idea.

I tried to pay a £1 fare in Reading with a £5 note. The
driver has no access to change, each passenger drops a
pound coin in a box as they enter. Luckily there were
enough passengers behind me to allow me to collect four
fares and stick the fiver in the box ...

A happy result for those concerened, but if there had been no other cash
fare paying passengers?

Exact Fare Only
 

"Ed Crowley" wrote in message
...

"Cast_Iron" wrote in message
...
CJG wrote:
Buses are slowed down so much with drivers getting change.
And even having £1 fare is still going to involve change
(notes and £2 coins). So why not introduce exact fare only.
No change at all. The money could go into secure boxes that
the driver has no access to. This happens in other parts
of the country and maybe its been tried before in London.
So good or bad idea?

I recall visiting Crawley on one occasion (not my idea). Walked out of
the
railway station and found the bus stop near the bus oerators office. It
was
only as I got on the bus that it revealed to me that it was "Exact Fare
Only". There was absolutly nothing on the stop nor anywhere else to warn
me.
Do something about that situtation and I can see no problem with the
idea.

I tried to pay a £1 fare in Reading with a £5 note. The driver has no
access to change, each passenger drops a pound coin in a box as they
enter.
Luckily there were enough passengers behind me to allow me to collect four
fares and stick the fiver in the box ...

I am VERY much against the idea of exact-fare-only buses and
buy-in-advance-ticket machines being the *only* way of buying tickets. By
all means encourage people to buy tickets in advance if they have suitable
change, but don't prevent people being able to buy tickets with whatever
cash they happen to have, as a last resort.

To expect people who only buy tickets occasionally (so wouldn't use Oyster)
or who don't know the fare (tourists etc) to have the exact change available
is unreasonable. It requires every intending passenger to carry sufficient
loose change to be able to pay any fare. It is far better for this burden to
be placed on the provider of the service (the driver and/or conductor) than
it is to place it on every customer (passenger).

Anyway, what about the delays while tourists who don't know the fare count
out their coins to meet the "exact fare" requirement? What about if you have
the correct fare but not in the coins that the ticket machine will accept -
there is a growing trend for ticket machines (especially in car parks) to
only accept some coins (eg not copper or not 5p). To require people to carry
not only sufficient change but also in the correct denominations is
LUDICROUS.

In the case of the Reading buses, they actually have the cheek to describe
their "exact fare" scheme as being "more convenient" (placards on the sides
of buses). How can a system that won't give change be *more* convenient? It
is *less* convenient from the passenger's point of view.

Exact Fare Only
 

In article ,
(Robert Woolley) wrote:

TfL pays for each bus to be fitted with a farebox to enforce exact
fare only.

Three years later 7,000 fare boxes get removed and thrown away at vast
expense.

Why do you say "thrown away"? Aren't they still in use outside Central
London?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Exact Fare Only
 

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:47:50 +0000 (UTC) Cast_Iron wrote:
} Ed Crowley wrote:
}
} I tried to pay a £1 fare in Reading with a £5 note. The
} driver has no access to change, each passenger drops a
} pound coin in a box as they enter. Luckily there were
} enough passengers behind me to allow me to collect four
} fares and stick the fiver in the box ...
}
} A happy result for those concerened, but if there had been no other cash
} fare paying passengers?

My experience in Luton a decade ago suggests that on 9 occasions out of
ten the driver would wave you onto the bus and the company would lose
the revenue. On the tenth occasion the driver would, with unpredictable
degrees of courtesy, say no fare, no ride.

There was then no ticket issued for such journies therefore no means for
a revenue inspector to check that passengers had paid their fare nor to
later check overall passenger numbers against cash in the box.

A favoured dodge of the local youf was to drop a couple of low
denomination coins into the box quickly so the driver was unlikely to
see what had been used knowing that if challeneged there was no way of
proving their fraud.

In practice many of the drivers carried change to help passengers who
didn't have the exact fare thereby obviating the rational of such a
system be it on the grounds of safety or loading speed.

I can't think of a system more likely to be efficient than pre-paid
tickets validated at the start of the journey. I particularly like the
Italian system of having validity periods of say 60 or 90 minutes after
validation removing any complication of tickets fro a particular route.
Having single tickets and carnets available from all newsagents,
tabaconists and other places makes it easy to get them without the
expense of providing an infrastructure of machines at every stop.

Matthew
--
Záhid sharáb píné dé, masjid mein baith kar
ya woh jagah batá dé jahán Khudá na ho.
http://www.calmeilles.co.uk/

Exact Fare Only
 

In message , Cast_Iron
writes

A happy result for those concerened, but if there had been no other
cash fare paying passengers?

Then you get off the bus. Get some change and get the next bus.
If TfL are going to force everyone to pay before they get on a bus. I
think having the right money before you get on a bus is a good deal in
comparsaion. I mean people save change for parking meters and
electricity meters so why not the bus?
--
CJG

Exact Fare Only
 

"CJG" wrote in message
...
In message , Cast_Iron
writes

A happy result for those concerened, but if there had been no other
cash fare paying passengers?

Then you get off the bus. Get some change and get the next bus.
If TfL are going to force everyone to pay before they get on a bus. I
think having the right money before you get on a bus is a good deal in
comparsaion. I mean people save change for parking meters and
electricity meters so why not the bus?

Because a visitor to the town will not be aware that change is not given on
the bus. See my other post re Crawley.

Exact Fare Only
 

"Cast_Iron" wrote:

Because a visitor to the town will not be aware that change is not given on
the bus.

When I go to a town or city with which I am unfamiliar, I assume I
will have to tender exact change. It's fairly common.

--
James Farrar |
London SE 13 |

Exact Fare Only
 

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:05:30 +0100, "Phil Kitchen"
wrote:

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:18:11 +0100, CJG
wrote:


Incidentally, does anyone know if the machines allow overpayment (now
a one day bus pass is gbp2.50 - previously, of course, if you didn't
have a quid you could just buy a pass) or if they allow a gbp2 coin to
be inserted for the purchase of 2 single tickets? I always use a
Travelcard in London, so I doubt I'm going to get chance to try...

Neil

The machines do look very similar to those found in some Pay and Display car
parks, which generally do not allow over payment, i only presume the
software on the new machines will be similar, and probably not give change
either?

Correct.

They're actually pay-and-display machines in disguise. They can be
set in software to accept overpayment, but cannot give change.

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Exact Fare Only
 

In message , Cast_Iron
writes
Because a visitor to the town will not be aware that change is not
given on the bus. See my other post re Crawley.

So what is the difference between not knowing you have to buy a ticket
before you board and have exact change before you board?
Both are crap ideas but exact change is the better of two evils.
--
CJG

Exact Fare Only
 

As Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:55:34 GMT appeared fresh and rosy-fingered,
"Martin Underwood" wrote:

Anyway, what about the delays while tourists who don't know the fare count
out their coins to meet the "exact fare" requirement? What about if you have
the correct fare but not in the coins that the ticket machine will accept -
there is a growing trend for ticket machines (especially in car parks) to
only accept some coins (eg not copper or not 5p). To require people to carry
not only sufficient change but also in the correct denominations is
LUDICROUS.

The ticket machine at my local South Central station isn't very keen
on 20p coins. Sometimes it will accept them, but not always.

I was recently caught out in Germany when I tried to buy a ticket from
a machine on a tram. There were no machines at the stops, and on-board
ticket machines seem quite common over there. It wouldn't accept any
of our money, so we, erm, might have had a free ride. Still, we bought
day tickets later on, so the company didn't lose in the end (just in
case Freiburg transport are reading this!).

In the case of the Reading buses, they actually have the cheek to describe
their "exact fare" scheme as being "more convenient" (placards on the sides
of buses). How can a system that won't give change be *more* convenient? It
is *less* convenient from the passenger's point of view.

You also need to make it clear in advance what the exact fare will be.
While the fares in London are round figures, exact fare is a real pain
when the fare is 83p, but varies according to phases of the moon.

When I Were A Lad we used to let the blue buses go past as they were
exact fare, and wait for the red ones which gave change. It was in
Yorkshire, though :-)

--
Arthur Figgis

Exact Fare Only
 

In message , Arthur Figgis
] writes
I was recently caught out in Germany when I tried to buy a ticket from
a machine on a tram. There were no machines at the stops, and on-board
ticket machines seem quite common over there. It wouldn't accept any of
our money, so we, erm, might have had a free ride. Still, we bought day
tickets later on, so the company didn't lose in the end (just in case
Freiburg transport are reading this!).

In Cologne no-one buys a ticket on the tram apart from the tourists. As
there are no ticket inspectors.
--
CJG

Exact Fare Only
 

In article , Matthew
Malthouse writes
A favoured dodge of the local youf was to drop a couple of low
denomination coins into the box quickly so the driver was unlikely to
see what had been used knowing that if challeneged there was no way of
proving their fraud.

When I was growing up in Southend-on-Sea some of the blue buses (but not
the green ones) had a no-change-given system - you could overpay. You
dropped the coins into a hopper and the machine would print images of
them on to the paper ticket (one bit of fun was to drop lots of 1/2p
coins in for, e.g. a 20p fare, so that you got a really long ticket).

[Clearly the coins were being pressed against a typewriter-style ribbon.
Not only were the images reversed on the paper and randomly rotated, you
could see the different designs of shilling and florin.]

--
Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8371 1138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address

Exact Fare Only
 

There are ticket machines at the stations that take credit card
payments but they seem to be extremely sensitive and reject the card
unless it's brand new. I never have problems with the machines at the
airports.

Am I not the only person then whose cards cannot be read in LU ticket
machines? (Switch and Electron, issued by different banks) They work
fine in cash machines, ticket machines on National Rail (except those at
Waterloo for some reason), shop tills etc.
--
Spyke
Address is valid, but messages are treated as junk. The opinions I express do
not necessarily reflect those of the educational institution from which I post.

Exact Fare Only
 

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:22:51 +0100 Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
} In article , Matthew
} Malthouse writes
} A favoured dodge of the local youf was to drop a couple of low
} denomination coins into the box quickly so the driver was unlikely to
} see what had been used knowing that if challeneged there was no way of
} proving their fraud.
}
} When I was growing up in Southend-on-Sea some of the blue buses (but not
} the green ones) had a no-change-given system - you could overpay. You
} dropped the coins into a hopper and the machine would print images of
} them on to the paper ticket (one bit of fun was to drop lots of 1/2p
} coins in for, e.g. a 20p fare, so that you got a really long ticket).
}
} [Clearly the coins were being pressed against a typewriter-style ribbon.
} Not only were the images reversed on the paper and randomly rotated, you
} could see the different designs of shilling and florin.]

A florin for a bus ride? Seems expensive. :-)

Matthew
--
Záhid sharáb píné dé, masjid mein baith kar
ya woh jagah batá dé jahán Khudá na ho.
http://www.calmeilles.co.uk/

Exact Fare Only
 

I remember a visit to New York quite a few years ago when my wife
and I boarded a bus (at the airport) only to learn that not only
was there an exact fare of 50 cents when we had no US money smaller
than a $5 bill, but that I couldn't use paper money even to pay for
two fares at once. As I recall, one of the passengers already on the
bus kindly changed my $5 for five $1's, and another passenger then
gave me four quarters (25 cents, you know) for that.

When I was in NY last August I asked why it was no paper money and they said
that the machines that suck out the money would simply shread the paper
money
--
To reply direct, Remove NOSPAM and Replace with 21fun
For the latest News, Information and Photos check out
http://www.railwaysonline.co.uk

Exact Fare Only
 

Joe Patrick wrote:
I remember a visit to New York quite a few years ago when my wife
and I boarded a bus (at the airport) only to learn that not only
was there an exact fare of 50 cents when we had no US money smaller
than a $5 bill, but that I couldn't use paper money even to pay for
two fares at once. As I recall, one of the passengers already on the
bus kindly changed my $5 for five $1's, and another passenger then
gave me four quarters (25 cents, you know) for that.

When I was in NY last August I asked why it was no paper money and
they said that the machines that suck out the money would simply
shread the paper money

There is a $1 coin but I haven't seen one for ages, don't think it caught
on.

Exact Fare Only
 

As Tue, 26 Aug 2003 21:20:49 +0100 appeared fresh and rosy-fingered,
CJG wrote:

In Cologne no-one buys a ticket on the tram apart from the tourists. As
there are no ticket inspectors.

B****r...

People in Dresden did, though. Next time I'll get my own back by
opening all the windows :-)
--
Arthur Figgis

Exact Fare Only
 

CJG wrote the following in:


In message , Cast_Iron
writes
Because a visitor to the town will not be aware that change is not
given on the bus. See my other post re Crawley.

So what is the difference between not knowing you have to buy a
ticket before you board and have exact change before you board?
Both are crap ideas but exact change is the better of two evils.

It's quite clearly signposted at bus stops when you have to have a
ticket before you board, not to mention the fact that there's a ticket
machine at the stops. What do people think it's there for, a joke?

--
message by Robin May, founder of International Boyism
"Would Inspector Sands please go to the Operations Room immediately."

Unofficially immune to hangovers.

Exact Fare Only
 

"Martin Underwood" typed


No, but it should not be the *only* way of getting a ticket. There needs to
be a means for people to buy a ticket (either beforehand or on the bus) if
they do not have the exact change in the exact denominations that a ticket
machine will accept. Making people take a detour to a shop to buy something
they don't want simply in order to get the required change is not
"convenient", to use Reading buses' claim in the placard on the side of
their buses. Whether or not you know that it's exact change only beforehand
does not alter the inconvenience to which passengers are put.

Then go to a sweet shop and buy a book of 'Saver' bus tickets today.
Unlike a Mars® Bar, this will not melt in your pocket...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

Exact Fare Only
 

CJG wrote the following in:


In message
,
Colin Rosenstiel writes
Never had a problem with my credit cards in LU ticket machines. My
main problem is that they won't sell child fares which is a
problem when accompanied by my children, especially at stations
with ludicrous queues like King's Cross.

This is of course because LU are worried adults may be naughty and
buy a child ticket instead of an adult one.

Have you any idea how many people do that? It's extremely common you
know.

Of course these kind of people just stroll through the open gates

Open gates are not common or consistent enough to rely on.

or just follow someone else through the gate.

Hard to do.

Instead of making life hard for the people who actually do buy
tickets. Maybe they should actually check the ticket on the trains
(or if the trains are too busy on the platforms while people are
waiting for trains).

If they did that, I suspect you'd complain that there were lazy and
useless LU staff on the platforms when they should be either licking
your boots or doing something else that you consider more important.

--
message by Robin May, founder of International Boyism
"Would Inspector Sands please go to the Operations Room immediately."

Unofficially immune to hangovers.

Exact Fare Only
 

On 2 Sep 2003 10:12:21 GMT Robin May wrote:
}
} or just follow someone else through the gate.
}
} Hard to do.

Not that hard. A while back some suited type tried to tail-gate behind
me at Farringdon. Had I walked out of the gate as normal he'd have
succeeded. As it was I stopped dead and the gate closed on him.

What really offended me was his expression of outrage which prompted me
to say "Buy a ticket". He didn't like being thought a freeloader and
started blustering about having a ticket. If so why did he attempt it?

Matthew
--
Záhid sharáb píné dé, masjid mein baith kar
ya woh jagah batá dé jahán Khudá na ho.
http://www.calmeilles.co.uk/

Exact Fare Only
 

On 2 Sep 2003 10:12:21 GMT, Robin May
wrote:


Open gates are not common or consistent enough to rely on.

Depends when/where you are making your journey - my local station
consistently has the gates left open in the evenings

or just follow someone else through the gate.

Hard to do.

Its *very* easy to do with the newe gates - they stay open far too
long

Exact Fare Only
 

In message , Robin May
writes
Have you any idea how many people do that? It's extremely common you
know.
Well if tickets were checked then there wouldn't be a problem. Why
bother to get an adult ticket when you can get away with a kiddies one?


Open gates are not common or consistent enough to rely on.

Your be very surprised. I have noticed just lately Baker Street always
has a gate open on Jubilee exit. And it is quite common. Especially at
the weekends. Infact Sundays I wonder why I bother buying a ticket
sometimes.
--
CJG

Exact Fare Only
 

Robin May wrote:
CJG wrote the following in:


In message
,
Colin Rosenstiel writes
Never had a problem with my credit cards in LU ticket machines. My
main problem is that they won't sell child fares which is a
problem when accompanied by my children, especially at stations
with ludicrous queues like King's Cross.

This is of course because LU are worried adults may be naughty and
buy a child ticket instead of an adult one.

Have you any idea how many people do that? It's extremely common you
know.

Why don't they just program the machines so that child tickets can only be
purchased with an adult ticket, when a credit card has been selected as
payment method. Genuine children who are on their own would be paying cash
anyway since they are too young to hold a credit card.

Exact Fare Only
 

"Robin May" wrote in message
...
CJG wrote the following in:


In message
,
Colin Rosenstiel writes
Never had a problem with my credit cards in LU ticket machines. My
main problem is that they won't sell child fares which is a
problem when accompanied by my children, especially at stations
with ludicrous queues like King's Cross.

This is of course because LU are worried adults may be naughty and
buy a child ticket instead of an adult one.

Have you any idea how many people do that? It's extremely common you
know.

Of course these kind of people just stroll through the open gates

Open gates are not common or consistent enough to rely on.

or just follow someone else through the gate.

Hard to do.

It's not hard to do. I suspected someone behind me was trying to do this so
stopped after I had gone through the barrier. Despite the fact that I was
clear of the barriers they remained open and the person behind was able to
walk through. The new barriers are especially easy to do this on.

Exact Fare Only
 

In message , David Walters
writes
Under 18s can't have a credit card account but some card issuers
(especially in the US) will let children have cards on an adults
account.

Under 18 year olds can have solo cards though. Not sure if you can have
them under 16 mind.
--
CJG

Exact Fare Only
 

In message , CJG
writes
In message , David Walters
writes
Under 18s can't have a credit card account but some card issuers
(especially in the US) will let children have cards on an adults
account.

Under 18 year olds can have solo cards though. Not sure if you can have
them under 16 mind.

I was issued a proper 'Switch' (not Solo) card well before I turned 18.
I also had a Visa Electron from 16, which I believe LT ticket machines
*should* take.
--
Spyke
Address is valid, but messages are treated as junk. The opinions I express do
not necessarily reflect those of the educational institution from which I post.

Exact Fare Only
 

"Robin May" wrote in message
...

I was issued a proper 'Switch' (not Solo) card well before I
turned 18. I also had a Visa Electron from 16, which I believe LT
ticket machines *should* take.

You stop being able to buy child tickets at 16, so there's no
problem
with ticket machines taking those cards but not offering child
tickets.

What about an adult wanting to buy a child ticket on such a card?