Buses are slowed down so much with drivers getting change. And even
having £1 fare is still going to involve change (notes and £2 coins). So
why not introduce exact fare only. No change at all. The money could go
into secure boxes that the driver has no access to. This happens in
other parts of the country and maybe its been tried before in London. So
good or bad idea?
--
CJG

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 18:20:58 +0100, CJG
wrote:

Buses are slowed down so much with drivers getting change. And even
having £1 fare is still going to involve change (notes and £2 coins). So
why not introduce exact fare only. No change at all. The money could go
into secure boxes that the driver has no access to. This happens in
other parts of the country and maybe its been tried before in London. So
good or bad idea?

London Buses are ahead of you.

How about no cash on the bus at all?

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/about-pay-before.shtml

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

CJG wrote:
Buses are slowed down so much with drivers getting change.
And even having £1 fare is still going to involve change
(notes and £2 coins). So why not introduce exact fare only.
No change at all. The money could go into secure boxes that
the driver has no access to. This happens in other parts
of the country and maybe its been tried before in London.
So good or bad idea?

I recall visiting Crawley on one occasion (not my idea). Walked out of the
railway station and found the bus stop near the bus oerators office. It was
only as I got on the bus that it revealed to me that it was "Exact Fare
Only". There was absolutly nothing on the stop nor anywhere else to warn me.
Do something about that situtation and I can see no problem with the idea.

"Cast_Iron" wrote in message
...
CJG wrote:
Buses are slowed down so much with drivers getting change.
And even having £1 fare is still going to involve change
(notes and £2 coins). So why not introduce exact fare only.
No change at all. The money could go into secure boxes that
the driver has no access to. This happens in other parts
of the country and maybe its been tried before in London.
So good or bad idea?

I recall visiting Crawley on one occasion (not my idea). Walked out of the
railway station and found the bus stop near the bus oerators office. It
was
only as I got on the bus that it revealed to me that it was "Exact Fare
Only". There was absolutly nothing on the stop nor anywhere else to warn
me.
Do something about that situtation and I can see no problem with the idea.

I tried to pay a £1 fare in Reading with a £5 note. The driver has no
access to change, each passenger drops a pound coin in a box as they enter.
Luckily there were enough passengers behind me to allow me to collect four
fares and stick the fiver in the box ...

Ed Crowley wrote:
"Cast_Iron" wrote in message
...
CJG wrote:
Buses are slowed down so much with drivers getting change.
And even having £1 fare is still going to involve change
(notes and £2 coins). So why not introduce exact fare
only.
No change at all. The money could go into secure boxes
that
the driver has no access to. This happens in other parts
of the country and maybe its been tried before in London.
So good or bad idea?

I recall visiting Crawley on one occasion (not my idea).
Walked out of the railway station and found the bus stop
near the bus oerators office. It was only as I got on the
bus that it revealed to me that it was "Exact Fare Only".
There was absolutly nothing on the stop nor anywhere else
to warn me. Do something about that situtation and I can
see no problem with the idea.

I tried to pay a £1 fare in Reading with a £5 note. The
driver has no access to change, each passenger drops a
pound coin in a box as they enter. Luckily there were
enough passengers behind me to allow me to collect four
fares and stick the fiver in the box ...

A happy result for those concerened, but if there had been no other cash
fare paying passengers?

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:47:50 +0000 (UTC) Cast_Iron wrote:
} Ed Crowley wrote:
}
} I tried to pay a £1 fare in Reading with a £5 note. The
} driver has no access to change, each passenger drops a
} pound coin in a box as they enter. Luckily there were
} enough passengers behind me to allow me to collect four
} fares and stick the fiver in the box ...
}
} A happy result for those concerened, but if there had been no other cash
} fare paying passengers?

My experience in Luton a decade ago suggests that on 9 occasions out of
ten the driver would wave you onto the bus and the company would lose
the revenue. On the tenth occasion the driver would, with unpredictable
degrees of courtesy, say no fare, no ride.

There was then no ticket issued for such journies therefore no means for
a revenue inspector to check that passengers had paid their fare nor to
later check overall passenger numbers against cash in the box.

A favoured dodge of the local youf was to drop a couple of low
denomination coins into the box quickly so the driver was unlikely to
see what had been used knowing that if challeneged there was no way of
proving their fraud.

In practice many of the drivers carried change to help passengers who
didn't have the exact fare thereby obviating the rational of such a
system be it on the grounds of safety or loading speed.

I can't think of a system more likely to be efficient than pre-paid
tickets validated at the start of the journey. I particularly like the
Italian system of having validity periods of say 60 or 90 minutes after
validation removing any complication of tickets fro a particular route.
Having single tickets and carnets available from all newsagents,
tabaconists and other places makes it easy to get them without the
expense of providing an infrastructure of machines at every stop.

Matthew
--
Záhid sharáb píné dé, masjid mein baith kar
ya woh jagah batá dé jahán Khudá na ho.
http://www.calmeilles.co.uk/

In article , Matthew
Malthouse writes
A favoured dodge of the local youf was to drop a couple of low
denomination coins into the box quickly so the driver was unlikely to
see what had been used knowing that if challeneged there was no way of
proving their fraud.

When I was growing up in Southend-on-Sea some of the blue buses (but not
the green ones) had a no-change-given system - you could overpay. You
dropped the coins into a hopper and the machine would print images of
them on to the paper ticket (one bit of fun was to drop lots of 1/2p
coins in for, e.g. a 20p fare, so that you got a really long ticket).

[Clearly the coins were being pressed against a typewriter-style ribbon.
Not only were the images reversed on the paper and randomly rotated, you
could see the different designs of shilling and florin.]

--
Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8371 1138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address

In message , Cast_Iron
writes

A happy result for those concerened, but if there had been no other
cash fare paying passengers?

Then you get off the bus. Get some change and get the next bus.
If TfL are going to force everyone to pay before they get on a bus. I
think having the right money before you get on a bus is a good deal in
comparsaion. I mean people save change for parking meters and
electricity meters so why not the bus?
--
CJG

"CJG" wrote in message
...
In message , Cast_Iron
writes

A happy result for those concerened, but if there had been no other
cash fare paying passengers?

Then you get off the bus. Get some change and get the next bus.
If TfL are going to force everyone to pay before they get on a bus. I
think having the right money before you get on a bus is a good deal in
comparsaion. I mean people save change for parking meters and
electricity meters so why not the bus?

Because a visitor to the town will not be aware that change is not given on
the bus. See my other post re Crawley.

"Ed Crowley" wrote in message
...

"Cast_Iron" wrote in message
...
CJG wrote:
Buses are slowed down so much with drivers getting change.
And even having £1 fare is still going to involve change
(notes and £2 coins). So why not introduce exact fare only.
No change at all. The money could go into secure boxes that
the driver has no access to. This happens in other parts
of the country and maybe its been tried before in London.
So good or bad idea?

I recall visiting Crawley on one occasion (not my idea). Walked out of
the
railway station and found the bus stop near the bus oerators office. It
was
only as I got on the bus that it revealed to me that it was "Exact Fare
Only". There was absolutly nothing on the stop nor anywhere else to warn
me.
Do something about that situtation and I can see no problem with the
idea.

I tried to pay a £1 fare in Reading with a £5 note. The driver has no
access to change, each passenger drops a pound coin in a box as they
enter.
Luckily there were enough passengers behind me to allow me to collect four
fares and stick the fiver in the box ...

I am VERY much against the idea of exact-fare-only buses and
buy-in-advance-ticket machines being the *only* way of buying tickets. By
all means encourage people to buy tickets in advance if they have suitable
change, but don't prevent people being able to buy tickets with whatever
cash they happen to have, as a last resort.

To expect people who only buy tickets occasionally (so wouldn't use Oyster)
or who don't know the fare (tourists etc) to have the exact change available
is unreasonable. It requires every intending passenger to carry sufficient
loose change to be able to pay any fare. It is far better for this burden to
be placed on the provider of the service (the driver and/or conductor) than
it is to place it on every customer (passenger).

Anyway, what about the delays while tourists who don't know the fare count
out their coins to meet the "exact fare" requirement? What about if you have
the correct fare but not in the coins that the ticket machine will accept -
there is a growing trend for ticket machines (especially in car parks) to
only accept some coins (eg not copper or not 5p). To require people to carry
not only sufficient change but also in the correct denominations is
LUDICROUS.

In the case of the Reading buses, they actually have the cheek to describe
their "exact fare" scheme as being "more convenient" (placards on the sides
of buses). How can a system that won't give change be *more* convenient? It
is *less* convenient from the passenger's point of view.