On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:47:50 +0000 (UTC) Cast_Iron wrote:
} Ed Crowley wrote:
}
} I tried to pay a £1 fare in Reading with a £5 note. The
} driver has no access to change, each passenger drops a
} pound coin in a box as they enter. Luckily there were
} enough passengers behind me to allow me to collect four
} fares and stick the fiver in the box ...
}
} A happy result for those concerened, but if there had been no other cash
} fare paying passengers?

My experience in Luton a decade ago suggests that on 9 occasions out of
ten the driver would wave you onto the bus and the company would lose
the revenue. On the tenth occasion the driver would, with unpredictable
degrees of courtesy, say no fare, no ride.

There was then no ticket issued for such journies therefore no means for
a revenue inspector to check that passengers had paid their fare nor to
later check overall passenger numbers against cash in the box.

A favoured dodge of the local youf was to drop a couple of low
denomination coins into the box quickly so the driver was unlikely to
see what had been used knowing that if challeneged there was no way of
proving their fraud.

In practice many of the drivers carried change to help passengers who
didn't have the exact fare thereby obviating the rational of such a
system be it on the grounds of safety or loading speed.

I can't think of a system more likely to be efficient than pre-paid
tickets validated at the start of the journey. I particularly like the
Italian system of having validity periods of say 60 or 90 minutes after
validation removing any complication of tickets fro a particular route.
Having single tickets and carnets available from all newsagents,
tabaconists and other places makes it easy to get them without the
expense of providing an infrastructure of machines at every stop.

Matthew
--
Záhid sharáb píné dé, masjid mein baith kar
ya woh jagah batá dé jahán Khudá na ho.
http://www.calmeilles.co.uk/

In message , Cast_Iron
writes

A happy result for those concerened, but if there had been no other
cash fare paying passengers?

Then you get off the bus. Get some change and get the next bus.
If TfL are going to force everyone to pay before they get on a bus. I
think having the right money before you get on a bus is a good deal in
comparsaion. I mean people save change for parking meters and
electricity meters so why not the bus?
--
CJG

"CJG" wrote in message
...
In message , Cast_Iron
writes

A happy result for those concerened, but if there had been no other
cash fare paying passengers?

Then you get off the bus. Get some change and get the next bus.
If TfL are going to force everyone to pay before they get on a bus. I
think having the right money before you get on a bus is a good deal in
comparsaion. I mean people save change for parking meters and
electricity meters so why not the bus?

Because a visitor to the town will not be aware that change is not given on
the bus. See my other post re Crawley.

"Cast_Iron" wrote:

Because a visitor to the town will not be aware that change is not given on
the bus.

When I go to a town or city with which I am unfamiliar, I assume I
will have to tender exact change. It's fairly common.

--
James Farrar |
London SE 13 |

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:05:30 +0100, "Phil Kitchen"
wrote:

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:18:11 +0100, CJG
wrote:


Incidentally, does anyone know if the machines allow overpayment (now
a one day bus pass is gbp2.50 - previously, of course, if you didn't
have a quid you could just buy a pass) or if they allow a gbp2 coin to
be inserted for the purchase of 2 single tickets? I always use a
Travelcard in London, so I doubt I'm going to get chance to try...

Neil

The machines do look very similar to those found in some Pay and Display car
parks, which generally do not allow over payment, i only presume the
software on the new machines will be similar, and probably not give change
either?

Correct.

They're actually pay-and-display machines in disguise. They can be
set in software to accept overpayment, but cannot give change.

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

In message , Cast_Iron
writes
Because a visitor to the town will not be aware that change is not
given on the bus. See my other post re Crawley.

So what is the difference between not knowing you have to buy a ticket
before you board and have exact change before you board?
Both are crap ideas but exact change is the better of two evils.
--
CJG

As Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:55:34 GMT appeared fresh and rosy-fingered,
"Martin Underwood" wrote:

Anyway, what about the delays while tourists who don't know the fare count
out their coins to meet the "exact fare" requirement? What about if you have
the correct fare but not in the coins that the ticket machine will accept -
there is a growing trend for ticket machines (especially in car parks) to
only accept some coins (eg not copper or not 5p). To require people to carry
not only sufficient change but also in the correct denominations is
LUDICROUS.

The ticket machine at my local South Central station isn't very keen
on 20p coins. Sometimes it will accept them, but not always.

I was recently caught out in Germany when I tried to buy a ticket from
a machine on a tram. There were no machines at the stops, and on-board
ticket machines seem quite common over there. It wouldn't accept any
of our money, so we, erm, might have had a free ride. Still, we bought
day tickets later on, so the company didn't lose in the end (just in
case Freiburg transport are reading this!).

In the case of the Reading buses, they actually have the cheek to describe
their "exact fare" scheme as being "more convenient" (placards on the sides
of buses). How can a system that won't give change be *more* convenient? It
is *less* convenient from the passenger's point of view.

You also need to make it clear in advance what the exact fare will be.
While the fares in London are round figures, exact fare is a real pain
when the fare is 83p, but varies according to phases of the moon.

When I Were A Lad we used to let the blue buses go past as they were
exact fare, and wait for the red ones which gave change. It was in
Yorkshire, though :-)

--
Arthur Figgis

In message , Arthur Figgis
] writes
I was recently caught out in Germany when I tried to buy a ticket from
a machine on a tram. There were no machines at the stops, and on-board
ticket machines seem quite common over there. It wouldn't accept any of
our money, so we, erm, might have had a free ride. Still, we bought day
tickets later on, so the company didn't lose in the end (just in case
Freiburg transport are reading this!).

In Cologne no-one buys a ticket on the tram apart from the tourists. As
there are no ticket inspectors.
--
CJG

In article , Matthew
Malthouse writes
A favoured dodge of the local youf was to drop a couple of low
denomination coins into the box quickly so the driver was unlikely to
see what had been used knowing that if challeneged there was no way of
proving their fraud.

When I was growing up in Southend-on-Sea some of the blue buses (but not
the green ones) had a no-change-given system - you could overpay. You
dropped the coins into a hopper and the machine would print images of
them on to the paper ticket (one bit of fun was to drop lots of 1/2p
coins in for, e.g. a 20p fare, so that you got a really long ticket).

[Clearly the coins were being pressed against a typewriter-style ribbon.
Not only were the images reversed on the paper and randomly rotated, you
could see the different designs of shilling and florin.]

--
Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8371 1138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address

There are ticket machines at the stations that take credit card
payments but they seem to be extremely sensitive and reject the card
unless it's brand new. I never have problems with the machines at the
airports.

Am I not the only person then whose cards cannot be read in LU ticket
machines? (Switch and Electron, issued by different banks) They work
fine in cash machines, ticket machines on National Rail (except those at
Waterloo for some reason), shop tills etc.
--
Spyke
Address is valid, but messages are treated as junk. The opinions I express do
not necessarily reflect those of the educational institution from which I post.