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Signs and portents (well, a map, anyway)
Evening all,
Seen at Farringdon, New Johnston and Rail Alphabet together at last: http://www.flickr.com/photos/twic/2150199528 And at Warren Street, a new, post-ELL, version of the tube map which is slowly appearing at stations (but is not yet, AFAIK, online): http://www.flickr.com/photos/twic/2149407291 I am pleased to note that my complaint about the Overground layout at Willesden Junction has been addressed, although i doubt i had anything to do with it! tom -- We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. Not that we needed all this for the trip, but once you get locked in a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can. -- Hunter S. Thompson, 'Fear and loathing in Las Vegas' |
Signs and portents (well, a map, anyway)
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message h.li... Evening all, Seen at Farringdon, New Johnston and Rail Alphabet together at last: http://www.flickr.com/photos/twic/2150199528 And at Warren Street, a new, post-ELL, version of the tube map which is slowly appearing at stations (but is not yet, AFAIK, online): http://www.flickr.com/photos/twic/2149407291 I am pleased to note that my complaint about the Overground layout at Willesden Junction has been addressed, although i doubt i had anything to do with it! tom -- We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. Not that we needed all this for the trip, but once you get locked in a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can. -- Hunter S. Thompson, 'Fear and loathing in Las Vegas' Is the treatment of New Cross/New Cross Gate correct? |
Signs and portents (well, a map, anyway)
"Graham Harrison" wrote in message ... "Tom Anderson" wrote in message h.li... Evening all, Seen at Farringdon, New Johnston and Rail Alphabet together at last: http://www.flickr.com/photos/twic/2150199528 And at Warren Street, a new, post-ELL, version of the tube map which is slowly appearing at stations (but is not yet, AFAIK, online): http://www.flickr.com/photos/twic/2149407291 I am pleased to note that my complaint about the Overground layout at Willesden Junction has been addressed, although i doubt i had anything to do with it! tom -- We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. Not that we needed all this for the trip, but once you get locked in a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can. -- Hunter S. Thompson, 'Fear and loathing in Las Vegas' Is the treatment of New Cross/New Cross Gate correct? Its correct for the replacement bus route, assuming you're wondering why two branches aren't shown. I think it's a step too far to show the future southern extension of the ELL in that way though, surely there's a good chance people will give the diagram a quick glance and interpret it as the line from NXG to East Croydon is also being closed for LO conversion? Paul S |
Signs and portents (well, a map, anyway)
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 23:00:24 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote: Evening all, Seen at Farringdon, New Johnston and Rail Alphabet together at last: http://www.flickr.com/photos/twic/2150199528 (OT) A waste of money though - surely Thameslink still exists as the name of the National Rail route. -- Peter Lawrence |
Signs and portents (well, a map, anyway)
(OT) A waste of money though - surely Thameslink still exists as the
name of the National Rail route. It does... but it's far less prominent now. The trains don't have it written on them any more and announcements etc. don't mention it. Besides which, once the Thameslink work is all finished, the thameslink route could mean trains to any number of destinations rather then the fairly simple route it refers to at the moment. Best Wishes, LEWIS |
Signs and portents (well, a map, anyway)
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007, Lew 1 wrote:
(OT) A waste of money though - surely Thameslink still exists as the name of the National Rail route. It does... but it's far less prominent now. The trains don't have it written on them any more and announcements etc. don't mention it. Besides which, once the Thameslink work is all finished, the thameslink route could mean trains to any number of destinations rather then the fairly simple route it refers to at the moment. All of which will pass through Farringdon, though. And vice versa, every train which passes through Farringdon will be on the Thameslink route. Unless the plan is to rebrand (debrand?) things so that the new routes won't be called Thameslink? tom -- Things fall apart - it's scientific |
Signs and portents (well, a map, anyway)
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message h.li... On Mon, 31 Dec 2007, Lew 1 wrote: (OT) A waste of money though - surely Thameslink still exists as the name of the National Rail route. It does... but it's far less prominent now. The trains don't have it written on them any more and announcements etc. don't mention it. Besides which, once the Thameslink work is all finished, the thameslink route could mean trains to any number of destinations rather then the fairly simple route it refers to at the moment. All of which will pass through Farringdon, though. And vice versa, every train which passes through Farringdon will be on the Thameslink route. Unless the plan is to rebrand (debrand?) things so that the new routes won't be called Thameslink? Crossrail 1 sounds good to me... g Paul S |
Signs and portents (well, a map, anyway)
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007, Paul Scott wrote:
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message h.li... http://www.flickr.com/photos/twic/2149407291 I think it's a step too far to show the future southern extension of the ELL in that way though, surely there's a good chance people will give the diagram a quick glance and interpret it as the line from NXG to East Croydon is also being closed for LO conversion? When they did much the same thing to extend the Central and Northern lines after the war, taking over existing routes, they were just drawn as dashed lines, without any reference to them being extant railway lines: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clive.b...maps/1946.html Although interestingly, entirely new bits of routes were shown differently, as dotted lines. That clever Mr Beck! tom -- Things fall apart - it's scientific |
Signs and portents (well, a map, anyway)
On 31 Dec 2007, 17:50, "Peter Lawrence"
wrote: (OT) *A waste of money though - surely Thameslink still exists as the name of the National Rail *route. They seem to quite like their stickers. London Overground have been busy pasting over even the most harmless Rail Alphabet sign with an identical one in New Johnston, complete with the silly "Temporary sign" note in the corner. They seem much less bothered about the trains not exactly matching the picture in the brochure. U -- http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/ A blog about transport projects in London |
Signs and portents (well, a map, anyway)
On Tue, 1 Jan 2008, Paul Scott wrote:
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message h.li... On Mon, 31 Dec 2007, Lew 1 wrote: (OT) A waste of money though - surely Thameslink still exists as the name of the National Rail route. It does... but it's far less prominent now. The trains don't have it written on them any more and announcements etc. don't mention it. Besides which, once the Thameslink work is all finished, the thameslink route could mean trains to any number of destinations rather then the fairly simple route it refers to at the moment. All of which will pass through Farringdon, though. And vice versa, every train which passes through Farringdon will be on the Thameslink route. Unless the plan is to rebrand (debrand?) things so that the new routes won't be called Thameslink? Crossrail 1 sounds good to me... g Crossrail 0! tom -- Things fall apart - it's scientific |
Signs and portents (well, a map, anyway)
Ohhh - I like what they have done with the canary wharf jubilee/DLR
interchange now. Far more accurate! |
Signs and portents (well, a map, anyway)
|
Signs and portents (well, a map, anyway)
It does... but it's far less prominent now. The trains don't have it
written on them any more and announcements etc. don't mention it. Besides which, once the Thameslink work is all finished, the thameslink route could mean trains to any number of destinations rather then the fairly simple route it refers to at the moment. All of which will pass through Farringdon, though. And vice versa, every train which passes through Farringdon will be on the Thameslink route. Makes no difference, the name "Thameslink" refers to Brighton / Sutton to Bedford. Trains going to Peterborough have never been called Thameslink or part of the Thameslink route, so still calling it Thameslink will be confusing, especially since the operator won't be called Thameslink either. Pasting over that sign was a very sensible thing to do. Best Wishes, LEWIS |
Signs and portents (well, a map, anyway)
They seem to quite like their stickers. London Overground have been
busy pasting over even the most harmless Rail Alphabet sign with an identical one in New Johnston, complete with the silly "Temporary sign" note in the corner. They seem much less bothered about the trains not exactly matching the picture in the brochure. Actually, I think they have done what was needed. Passengers at the station will have wanted to know change is on the way, and changing the signage albeit temporarily along with staffing does make the station feel "nicer". I admit it is surprising that such a small act can help one feel more comfortable, but there we go. I was overjoyed whilst waiting at West Hampstead in the evening last week, when a staff member walked down the platform, picked up the *one* newspaper on the platform and told another passenger to put his cigarette out in the shelter. Not 3 months ago, I would be cowering under a light next to the help point, up to my knees in free papers while youths on the other side threw beer bottles onto the tracks. And West Hampstead has always been one of the nicer stations on the route! As for the trains, even I can see that given the relatively short wait for the new trains, re-painting or refurbishing is out of the question. The trains are already arriving a thousand times cleaner (inside and out) then they ever used to - and I am happy with that until the new stock. I feel ever so positive about London Overground, the way the North London Line was operated and neglected was nothing short of a disgrace in an "up and coming" city. Best Wishes, LEWIS |
Signs and portents (well, a map, anyway)
On Wed, 2 Jan 2008, Lew 1 wrote:
It does... but it's far less prominent now. The trains don't have it written on them any more and announcements etc. don't mention it. Besides which, once the Thameslink work is all finished, the thameslink route could mean trains to any number of destinations rather then the fairly simple route it refers to at the moment. All of which will pass through Farringdon, though. And vice versa, every train which passes through Farringdon will be on the Thameslink route. Makes no difference, the name "Thameslink" refers to Brighton / Sutton to Bedford. Er, what? That's what it refers to now, sure. When trains are running from King's Lynn to Guildford or whatever, it'll refer to those too. Trains going to Peterborough have never been called Thameslink or part of the Thameslink route, No, because they haven't been part of it. They are set to become part of it. so still calling it Thameslink will be confusing, No, not calling it Thameslink when it's part of the same operation as Brighton to Beford will be confusing. especially since the operator won't be called Thameslink either. True. And stupidly, NR doesn't seem at all keen on giving lines public names distinct from their operators, which would be a continuing use for the Thameslink name. tom -- skills to pay the bills! |
Signs and portents (well, a map, anyway)
All of which will pass through Farringdon, though. And vice versa,
every train which passes through Farringdon will be on the Thameslink route. Makes no difference, the name "Thameslink" refers to Brighton / Sutton to Bedford. Er, what? That's what it refers to now, sure. When trains are running from King's Lynn to Guildford or whatever, it'll refer to those too. I would argue that from the travelling public's point of view, it won't refer to those services at all. Since the name is not advertised to the general public much (if at all), and the Train Operating Company are called Capital Connect, I suspect the new combined service will become known as Capital Connect. The official name of the line in the middle of it all won't be heavily used, and so shouldn't be used for station directional signage, after all LU don't sign "West Coast Mainline" anywhere. National Rail or First Capital Connect is perfectly sufficient for signage, and as it happens, I prefer the former. Best Wishes, LEWIS |
Signs and portents (well, a map, anyway)
On Wed, 2 Jan 2008, John Rowland wrote:
wrote: Ohhh - I like what they have done with the canary wharf jubilee/DLR interchange now. Far more accurate! But they haven't done the same thing at Bow Church/Bow Road. No. What they've done there is quite weird, actually - shown them as an actual interchange, two blobs connected by a stick, like Baker Street or Embankment. Looking around the map, i see they've done the same thing at Tower Hill / Gateway, Shadwell, and Shepherd's Bush (between the Central and WLL stations - the H&C station is miles off to the south!), none of which are true interchanges. West Hampstead, on the other hand, is shown in the same style as Canary Wharf, although there's one name label shared between the NLL and Jubilee stations (which also has a rail flash for Thameslink) rather than a separate name on each station, as at Canary Wharf. Both the stations at West Hampstead are shown as interchange circles, despite only having one line going through them - either the walking distance counts as a connector and qualifies them from interchange status, or that reflects the presence of an NR interchange [1]. Paddington, maddeningly, remains two entirely separate blobs (H&C and Circle-Bakerloo), each with their own names, rail flashes and airport icons. No walking distance is given. Ditto the two Edgware Roads. There is also no walking distance between Marylebone to Baker Street, despite it being, AIUI, a valid outerchange, nor the close-but-no-outerchange pairs at Walthamstow Central / Queens Road and Seven Sisters / South Tottenham. My guess would be that they've put a distance on at Canary Wharf because without it, people will walk to the wrong DLR station. They've done it at West Hampstead because they want to big up the Overground, but why haven't they marked the two oportunities in the northeast? They haven't put a rail flash on Hackney Central, despite it being as close to Hackney Downs as Clapham North is to Clapham High Street (ish - it's a bit further, but it takes the same time, because in Hackney you'll be running). *******s. tom [1] I realise this is now getting pedantic beyond the call of duty. No extra charge! -- skills to pay the bills! |
Signs and portents (well, a map, anyway)
Lew 1 wrote:
All of which will pass through Farringdon, though. And vice versa, every train which passes through Farringdon will be on the Thameslink route. Makes no difference, the name "Thameslink" refers to Brighton / Sutton to Bedford. Er, what? That's what it refers to now, sure. When trains are running from King's Lynn to Guildford or whatever, it'll refer to those too. I would argue that from the travelling public's point of view, it won't refer to those services at all. Since the name is not advertised to the general public much (if at all), and the Train Operating Company are called Capital Connect, I suspect the new combined service will become known as Capital Connect. The official name of the line in the middle of it all won't be heavily used, and so shouldn't be used for station directional signage, after all LU don't sign "West Coast Mainline" anywhere. National Rail or First Capital Connect is perfectly sufficient for signage, and as it happens, I prefer the former. That's fine except where you need to distinguish between FCC services that terminate in London and those that don't. For example, at King's Cross St Pancras or (currently) Moorgate. In those cases, "Thameslink" is a useful label for the through services. How else would you want your line to be identified if you were bound for, say, Cricklewood and needed to find the right platform having emerged from the Northern Line at either KXSP or Moorgate? Indeed, on the FCC site, it says "With only a short walk between King’s Cross and St Pancras International, First Capital Connect customers [arriving at King's Cross from Cambridge etc.] can not only access the Eurostar terminal with ease, but can also reach other destinations on the Thameslink route ...". (Though, if you follow the link to "Download connections map", it leads to the old map with King's Cross Thameslink on it!) -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Signs and portents (well, a map, anyway)
John Rowland wrote wrote: Ohhh - I like what they have done with the canary wharf jubilee/DLR interchange now. Far more accurate! But they haven't done the same thing at Bow Church/Bow Road. Doesn't it at least say 200m ? Looking at the "Tube Map" in the London Overground timetable booklet (and see also West Hampstead). -- Mike D |
Signs and portents (well, a map, anyway)
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message h.li... On Wed, 2 Jan 2008, John Rowland wrote: wrote: Ohhh - I like what they have done with the canary wharf jubilee/DLR interchange now. Far more accurate! But they haven't done the same thing at Bow Church/Bow Road. No. What they've done there is quite weird, actually - shown them as an actual interchange, two blobs connected by a stick, like Baker Street or Embankment. Looking around the map, i see they've done the same thing at Tower Hill / Gateway, Shadwell, and Shepherd's Bush (between the Central and WLL stations - the H&C station is miles off to the south!), none of which are true interchanges. With a bit of luck people will only be getting off the Central line and heading for the yet to open WLL for a few weeks, until the Central Line station closes for 6 months. Do these maps out on the system get temporarily patched, like the carriage line diagrams, or reprinted completely? Paul S |
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