In message , at 16:15:49 on Sat, 12 Jan 2008, Lew
1 remarked:
In these days of "Environmental Enlightenment", many would see ticketless
travel as a resonable goal. I guess its just that "registered" bit that
causes trouble, what is the official reason for it over a scheme where you
could *choose* to register for added protection if you wanted?

Just a guess, but probably because they fear being besieged by clueless
unregistered cardholders wanting the added protection retrospectively.
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:26:58 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

On 11 Jan, 17:28, JB wrote:
Can you transfer the travelcard element of an annual National Rail
season tickets that has an origin of somewhere outside London, for
example Cambridge to Zones R1256, onto an Oyster card, and if so how?

JB

Simple answer - no.

Thanks, that's what I thought.

It was just that I spoke to the Oyster helpline yesterday and the
first person I spoke to clearly didn't have the faintest idea about
what I was talking about. Then their supervisor told me I could by
taking my National Rail season ticket to a LU station, but they said
it in such a such a way that I didn't entirely believe them.

I have emailed them as well, so I will be interested to see their
answer.

Mizter T wrote in news:0eed117e-58ec-4f04-8b8e-
:

What is definitely allowed is to combine a season Travelcard and a
rail-only season ticket when your train stops at the point when you
swap between the two tickets - so lets say you travel from Woking to
London Waterloo, then as long as you got on a train that stopped at
Surbiton you could have a Woking to Surbiton rail-only season (as a
printed ticket), and then a zones 1-6 season Travelcard (issued on
Oyster if you so desire) which would kick in at Surbiton (Surbiton
being in zone 6).

What I'm less clear on is whether this would be allowed if the Woking
to London Waterloo train did not stop at Surbiton (as only some trains
from Woking to Waterloo do stop there). Perhaps someone can put me
right on this once and for all!


From the National Rail Conditions of Carriage:

"19. Using a combination of tickets

You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they
cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:

(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit
their use);

(b) the train you are in calls at the station where you change from one
ticket to another; or

(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does
not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a
passenger transport executive or
local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s)
is/are not."

In this case (a) does not apply as Woking to Surbiton is not "Zonal",
(b) doesn't if the train doesn't stop at Surbiton and (c) doesn't as
both the tickets are season tickets and neither is issued by a PTE or
local authority.

So the combination is not valid.

David

On 12 Jan, 19:37, David Jackman pleasereplytogroup wrote:
Mizter T wrote in news:0eed117e-58ec-4f04-8b8e-
:

What is definitely allowed is to combine a season Travelcard and a
rail-only season ticket when your train stops at the point when you
swap between the two tickets - so lets say you travel from Woking to
London Waterloo, then as long as you got on a train that stopped at
Surbiton you could have a Woking to Surbiton rail-only season (as a
printed ticket), and then a zones 1-6 season Travelcard (issued on
Oyster if you so desire) which would kick in at Surbiton (Surbiton
being in zone 6).
What I'm less clear on is whether this would be allowed if the Woking
to London Waterloo train did not stop at Surbiton (as only some trains
from Woking to Waterloo do stop there). Perhaps someone can put me
right on this once and for all!

From the National Rail Conditions of Carriage:

"19. Using a combination of tickets

You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they
cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:

(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit
their use);

(b) the train you are in calls at the station where you change from one
ticket to another; or

(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does
not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a
passenger transport executive or
local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s)
is/are not."

In this case (a) does not apply as Woking to Surbiton is not "Zonal",
(b) doesn't if the train doesn't stop at Surbiton and (c) doesn't as
both the tickets are season tickets and neither is issued by a PTE or
local authority.

So the combination is not valid.

David

Hmm. How annoying.

I expected the response to be the same as stated above, as it'd be far
too convenient otherwise. I need Zone 1-5 (I go into KX via Euston)
and London to Cambridge, so whilst an annual Oyster is cheaper than
PAYG, the separate tickets would cost ~£696.00 more than a combined
CAM-LT + 1-6 ticket, but if I could get Cambridge-Oakleigh Park and a
1-5 Oyster TC, then that's only £36 more than the paper ticket, and a
lot more convenient. I imagine they price them based on the fact the
TC covers you all the way out to Hadley Wood anyway, so it just seems
malicious that they wouldn't let you mix the two on a non-stopping
train.

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:37:17 -0600, David Jackman pleasereplytogroup
wrote:

From the National Rail Conditions of Carriage:

"19. Using a combination of tickets

You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they
cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:

(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit
their use);

(b) the train you are in calls at the station where you change from one
ticket to another; or

(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does
not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a
passenger transport executive or
local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s)
is/are not."

In this case (a) does not apply as Woking to Surbiton is not "Zonal",
(b) doesn't if the train doesn't stop at Surbiton and (c) doesn't as
both the tickets are season tickets and neither is issued by a PTE or
local authority.

So the combination is not valid.

So would a Cambridge to R456 season ticket and a TfL zones 1 to 3
annual travelcard be valid for a non stop Cambridge to Kings Cross,
since it would appear both are zonal tickets?

If so, if you had the TfL zones 1 to 3 on an Oyster card, woul this be
a problem, as you would need to use the Oyster to out and back into
Kings Cross?

JB

On 17 Jan, 17:17, JB wrote:

So would a Cambridge to R456 season ticket and a TfL zones 1 to 3
annual travelcard be valid for a non stop Cambridge to Kings Cross,
since it would appear both are zonal tickets?

Interesting qn; anyone got a convincing answer? I'm fairly sure the
answer is that it would not be valid, but I can't work out on what
grounds the C-R456 would be defined as "not zonal".

If so, if you had the TfL zones 1 to 3 on an Oyster card, woul this be
a problem, as you would need to use the Oyster to out and back into
Kings Cross?

There's no problem entering or leaving KX with a z123 season ticket on
Oyster (indeed, I've frequently gone from KX to Finsbury Park on NR on
a z12 season ticket on Oyster) - an Oyster season ticket is valid at,
and will open the gates at, any station of any kind[*]in the zones
for which it is valid.
[*] yes, pedants, even fire stations and police stations.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, John B wrote:

an Oyster season ticket is valid at, and will open the gates at, any
station of any kind[*]in the zones for which it is valid.

[*] yes, pedants, even fire stations and police stations.

What about radio stations? Battle stations? The stations of the cross?

tom

--
Gotta have skills to pay those bills.

JB wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:37:17 -0600, David Jackman pleasereplytogroup
wrote:

From the National Rail Conditions of Carriage:

"19. Using a combination of tickets

You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they
cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:

(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit
their use);

(b) the train you are in calls at the station where you change from one
ticket to another; or

(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does
not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a
passenger transport executive or
local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s)
is/are not."

In this case (a) does not apply as Woking to Surbiton is not "Zonal",
(b) doesn't if the train doesn't stop at Surbiton and (c) doesn't as
both the tickets are season tickets and neither is issued by a PTE or
local authority.

So the combination is not valid.

So would a Cambridge to R456 season ticket and a TfL zones 1 to 3
annual travelcard be valid for a non stop Cambridge to Kings Cross,
since it would appear both are zonal tickets?

Yes, that would be fine.


If so, if you had the TfL zones 1 to 3 on an Oyster card, would this be
a problem, as you would need to use the Oyster to out and back into
Kings Cross?


No problem at all. The requirement to touch-in and out is only really
exists when one is using an Oyster card in Pay-as-you-go mode (or when
combining a Travelcard with PAYG to go outside the zonal validity of
that Travelcard - though obviously only on routes where PAYG is
currently accepted, i.e. the whole Underground network and a limited
number of National Rail routes).

If you were doing this you'd probably have to explain it if and when
you met a ticket inspector, but the combination is perfectly valid.

However it costs more! All prices below are for a month...

Cambridge - R1256 Travelcard - £380.20

versus

Cambridge - R456 - £314.90
plus zones 1-3 Travelcard - £109.10
Total - £424.

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 09:53:43 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:


If you were doing this you'd probably have to explain it if and when
you met a ticket inspector, but the combination is perfectly valid.

Yes that was my concern. I seemed to be getting some of the ticket
office staff saying you couldn't do it and some saying you could.


However it costs more! All prices below are for a month...

Cambridge - R1256 Travelcard - £380.20

versus

Cambridge - R456 - £314.90
plus zones 1-3 Travelcard - £109.10
Total - £424.

When I checked, Cambridge - R1256 was £441.60. The £380.20 seems to be
for a ticket valid to the ex-Thameslink London stations (Blackfriars,
City Thameslink and London Bridge)?

The main reason why I was interested though, was to be able to have an
Oyster card to use on the tube, rather than a paper season ticket.

In article ,
(JB) wrote:

So would a Cambridge to R456 season ticket and a TfL zones 1 to 3
annual travelcard be valid for a non stop Cambridge to Kings Cross,
since it would appear both are zonal tickets?

I think you'd have problems this year getting a Cambridge to R456 season.
FCC (who set the fares) seem to have scrapped all Cambridge to
underground zones fares other than same day tickets. 'one' (who runs
Cambridge station) are struggling at present. Things may become clearer
later.

--
Colin Rosenstiel