North London Line
 

Is it any better since Dross Link went and Ken took it over ?

--
Edward Cowling "Must go - Got to rub lard on the Cat's boil !"

North London Line
 

Is it any better since Dross Link went and Ken took it over ?

1. support for Oyster PAYG
2. more staff
3. some station signs were changed to a new font with white or orange
background
4. all silverlink logos were covered with brand new "London
Overground" stickers

It's only 2 months - so a bit early to expect major improvements.
However I must say that "London got new train set" advertising was
horribly misleading - new trains are still 2 years away.

North London Line
 

"Edward Cowling London UK" wrote in message
...

Is it any better since Dross Link went and Ken took it over ?

It depends how you class "better". The service frequency and reliability is
much the same as before, however as others have said this is, and was, never
going to change overnight - I remain postivie that in the coming couple of
years we will see this improve. There are some later trains in the evening
however.

With regards as to the stations, in my opinion this has already seen a
marked improvment, and it has been quicker coming than I would have
expected. Quite a few stations have had their dingy ticket halls ripped out
and started again, the most extreme improvements that I have seen being West
Hampstead and Acton Central, and many have had ticket gates added.

All Overground stations are now staffed from the very first train to the
very last train, though bear in mind this doesn't mean that they are selling
tickets. This has really helped several of the stations, and some of the
more unfriendly stations on the route do now have staff meeting every train
at the platform - the Goblin seems to have benefited the most from this.
Having said all that, my experience is that some stations still go
completely unstaffed at times. Kensal Rise had nobody there yesterday
afternoon for example, so whether this is teething troubles as they build up
staff members I don't know. I mentioend on this newgroup a week or so ago my
delight that a member of staff was tidying the platform up of the *single*
newspaper on the floor and told someone to stop smoking in the shelter at a
station where I used to be cowering next to the help point late at night.

Most of the stations on the North London Line have started repainting
everything cream, brown and orange and oblitering Silverlink's ghastly blue
and flourescent green. They have also added some rather nice retro looking
wooden benches, how long these will last is another matter. London
Overground have fixed anything that wasn't working, for example all the PA's
have been turned up, speakers fixed, and any information screens and heated
waiting rooms seem to be all in working order, when they were not some weeks
before under Silverlink.

The station improvements will be great when they are completed, so its
really now all eyes on the trains. For now, its the same old 313's albeit
slightly tidier and with ticket checks - I have had more tickets checked on
the NLL in the last month then I had in the previous two years.

Incidentally, I was a little surprised last night to find a video on YouTube
that praised Silverlink as the country's greatest operator. Perhaps I was
alone in thinking that it always single-handed ruined any journey that
involved it and was too lazy even to collect fares for its own services!
Actually, perhaps that is why some people loved it, as under TfL they have
to pay to use it.

Phew, that turned into rather an essay, but I hope it helped!

Best Wishes,
LEWIS

North London Line
 

Lew 1 wrote:

Incidentally, I was a little surprised last night to find a video on
YouTube that praised Silverlink as the country's greatest operator.
Perhaps I was alone in thinking that it always single-handed ruined
any journey that involved it and was too lazy even to collect fares
for its own services!

There was a marked difference between Silverlink Metro (and the attitude of
its staff) and Silverlink County. ;-)

North London Line
 

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:08:27 -0000, "Lew 1"
wrote:


Incidentally, I was a little surprised last night to find a video on YouTube
that praised Silverlink as the country's greatest operator. Perhaps I was
alone in thinking that it always single-handed ruined any journey that
involved it and was too lazy even to collect fares for its own services!
Actually, perhaps that is why some people loved it, as under TfL they have
to pay to use it.

I think Silverlink County had a very good reputation with good match of
train capacity to demand and generally very reliable. It seems from
early reports that London Midland has not been as good.

I would agree that Silverlink Metro left much to be desired but under
the terms of their franchise they had little incentive to do anything
whereas LOROL are on very different terms. I would also imagine that TfL
are watching their performance like hawks hence your generally positive
report on how things are going so far. I look forward to it all getting
a lot better.

I've only a limited experience of LOROL since they started but
everything ran to time, the stations were tidy enough but clearly in
need of some work and the trains did seem noticeably tidier to my eyes.
The one change I find utterly bizarre is the adoption of the M-F peak
service on Saturdays for the GOBLIN. This breaks the former well timed
connections at Gospel Oak and thus means you can have up to 15 minutes
to wait - in other words a NLL train is in its platform heading west as
you arrive. Stupid, stupid, stupid. I'd rather have a 30 minute service
with a good timed connection than higher frequency and idiotic
connections.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

North London Line
 

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 07:30:37 -0800 (PST), alex_t
wrote:

It's only 2 months - so a bit early to expect major improvements.
However I must say that "London got new train set" advertising was
horribly misleading - new trains are still 2 years away.

And they won't be universally popular. Far fewer people will get a
seat, for instance, due to the Tube-style side-facing seating.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

North London Line
 

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:08:27 -0000, "Lew 1"
wrote:

Incidentally, I was a little surprised last night to find a video on YouTube
that praised Silverlink as the country's greatest operator. Perhaps I was
alone in thinking that it always single-handed ruined any journey that
involved it and was too lazy even to collect fares for its own services!

Did you ever use the County mainline services? They were very
professionally-run, though the last few weeks were marred by the
strikes.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

North London Line
 

And they won't be universally popular. Far fewer people will get a
seat, for instance, due to the Tube-style side-facing seating.

My experience on the NLL was that passengers very rarely filled up all the
seats anyway and most were quite content to stand, generally speaking
passengesr don't spend too long on the train. My objection was that the
313's obviously were not designed with metro services in mind and thus
didn't have as many grab rails and general design tit-bits as they really
needed.

Compare and contrast to longer distance TOC's such as FCC, where every seat
will always get filled up.

Best Wishes,
LEWIS

North London Line
 

Did you ever use the County mainline services? They were very
professionally-run, though the last few weeks were marred by the
strikes.

Only once or twice, not enough to really form an opinion. I hadn't thought
that the difference between County and Metro would have been so huge, though
it certainly looks like it was County that was getting the praise. (What was
the Abbey Flyer, County or Metro?)

I find it strangely amusing that one set of passengers would have related
the brand "Silverlink" with the height of railway filth, whilst another set
saw Silverlink as the railway's Knight in Shining Armour. What difference
one word makes!

Best Wishes,
LEWIS

North London Line
 

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:57:33 -0000, "Lew 1"
wrote:

Only once or twice, not enough to really form an opinion. I hadn't thought
that the difference between County and Metro would have been so huge, though
it certainly looks like it was County that was getting the praise. (What was
the Abbey Flyer, County or Metro?)

County, as were the erstwhile London-Brum locals and the
London-Northampton commuter services that I use daily.

I find it strangely amusing that one set of passengers would have related
the brand "Silverlink" with the height of railway filth, whilst another set
saw Silverlink as the railway's Knight in Shining Armour. What difference
one word makes!

It is interesting - I personally have very positive views of the old
Silverlink County, but I agree the old Metro services were disgusting.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

North London Line
 

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:50:57 -0000, "Lew 1"
wrote:

My experience on the NLL was that passengers very rarely filled up all the
seats anyway and most were quite content to stand, generally speaking
passengesr don't spend too long on the train. My objection was that the
313's obviously were not designed with metro services in mind and thus
didn't have as many grab rails and general design tit-bits as they really
needed.

Was never a problem on Merseyrail, but then at least they have enough
units and long enough platforms to double up in the peaks. (This is
what TfL should be looking at doing, IMO).

Compare and contrast to longer distance TOC's such as FCC, where every seat
will always get filled up.

Not on Silverlink County. People take every seat on the 2+2 seated
Desiros, but you tend to get 4 to a bay of 6 and 3 to a bay of 4 on
the 2+3 321s, with people generally preferring to stand rather than
take the middle seat.

This is why I think it's stupid (and makes a mockery of the PIXC
figures) for GoVia's new Desiro order (replacing the 321s) to be 2+3
seated, as I understand they will be.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

North London Line
 

On Jan 12, 6:02*pm, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:57:33 -0000, "Lew 1"

wrote:
Only once or twice, not enough to really form an opinion. I hadn't thought
that the difference between County and Metro would have been so huge, though
it certainly looks like it was County that was getting the praise. (What was
the Abbey Flyer, County or Metro?)

County, as were the erstwhile London-Brum locals and the
London-Northampton commuter services that I use daily.

I find it strangely amusing that one set of passengers would have related
the brand "Silverlink" with the height of railway filth, whilst another set
saw Silverlink as the railway's Knight in Shining Armour. What difference
one word makes!

It is interesting - I personally have very positive views of the old
Silverlink County, but I agree the old Metro services were disgusting.


How does the shared use of rolling stock work out? I assume that
Watford - St Albans shares stock with the NLL and Bedford - Bletchley
shares stock with the GOBLIN, or is that no longer the case?

North London Line
 

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:57:33 -0000, "Lew 1"
wrote:

Did you ever use the County mainline services? They were very
professionally-run, though the last few weeks were marred by the
strikes.

Only once or twice, not enough to really form an opinion. I hadn't thought
that the difference between County and Metro would have been so huge, though
it certainly looks like it was County that was getting the praise. (What was
the Abbey Flyer, County or Metro?)

I find it strangely amusing that one set of passengers would have related
the brand "Silverlink" with the height of railway filth, whilst another set
saw Silverlink as the railway's Knight in Shining Armour. What difference
one word makes!

Silverlink County did have a rocky patch a number of years ago but like
a number of Nat Ex TOCs they just knuckled down and concentrated on the
basics. IIRC they had the most reliable EMUs in Britain with their fleet
of Class 321s based at Bletchley. For a railway getting the most boring
basics right day in, day out is absolutely essential and they did seem
to manage that despite the WCML upgrade works.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

North London Line
 

On 12 Jan, 18:54, Paul Corfield wrote:
Silverlink County did have a rocky patch a number of years ago but like
a number of Nat Ex TOCs they just knuckled down and concentrated on the
basics. IIRC they had the most reliable EMUs in Britain with their fleet
of Class 321s based at Bletchley. *For a railway getting the most boring
basics right day in, day out is absolutely essential and they did seem
to manage that despite the WCML upgrade works.

It's not really a "despite". As part of the WCML upgrade Silverlink
were bought a stack of new trains and 12-car platform extensions and
probably benefited from the other infrastructure upgrades and
renewals. I'd think this goes a long way to explaining the better
reputation of County.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

North London Line
 

"MIG" wrote in message
...
On Jan 12, 6:02 pm, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:57:33 -0000, "Lew 1"

wrote:
Only once or twice, not enough to really form an opinion. I hadn't
thought
that the difference between County and Metro would have been so huge,
though
it certainly looks like it was County that was getting the praise. (What
was
the Abbey Flyer, County or Metro?)

County, as were the erstwhile London-Brum locals and the
London-Northampton commuter services that I use daily.

I find it strangely amusing that one set of passengers would have related
the brand "Silverlink" with the height of railway filth, whilst another
set
saw Silverlink as the railway's Knight in Shining Armour. What difference
one word makes!

It is interesting - I personally have very positive views of the old
Silverlink County, but I agree the old Metro services were disgusting.



How does the shared use of rolling stock work out? I assume that
Watford - St Albans shares stock with the NLL and Bedford - Bletchley
shares stock with the GOBLIN, or is that no longer the case?


It is no longer the case - that's why two ex Silverlink Metro units are now
down in Bristol!

Paul

North London Line
 

MIG wrote:

How does the shared use of rolling stock work out? I assume that
Watford - St Albans shares stock with the NLL and Bedford - Bletchley
shares stock with the GOBLIN, or is that no longer the case?

I'm not sure about the new arrangement for the St Albans Flyer but the
Marston Vale line is now resourced by London Midland, as part of their
franchise. Class 150s from the West Midlands fleet are used.

North London Line
 

Mr Thant wrote:
On 12 Jan, 18:54, Paul Corfield wrote:
Silverlink County did have a rocky patch a number of years ago but
like a number of Nat Ex TOCs they just knuckled down and
concentrated on the basics. IIRC they had the most reliable EMUs
in Britain with their fleet of Class 321s based at Bletchley. For
a railway getting the most boring basics right day in, day out is
absolutely essential and they did seem to manage that despite the
WCML upgrade works.

It's not really a "despite". As part of the WCML upgrade Silverlink
were bought a stack of new trains and 12-car platform extensions and
probably benefited from the other infrastructure upgrades and
renewals. I'd think this goes a long way to explaining the better
reputation of County.

It was perhaps also the fact that County maintained their "old" trains
superbly. Their Class 321 reliability was the best of any National Rail
train type for the second year running, and their average miles per
casualty*, at 49,244, was more than twice the figure for One's fleet of
the same class.

By contrast, Metro's fleet of Class 313, admittedly around 13 years
older but maintained in the same Bletchley depot, achieved a miserable
5189 miles per casualty last year, compared to FCC's 11,355 mpc with the
same class.

* Strictly, it's the moving annual average of total miles run divided by
the number of train faults causing at least a 5-minute delay. Figures
from Modern Railways, January 2008.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

North London Line
 

I decided on an observational survey trip last Wednesday afternoon to
the former BR/Bakerloo Line joint stations "north of Harrow" on the DC
Lines.

Headstone Lane - ticket office closed, no UTS gates, no visible staff.
Hatch End - ticket office open, no UTS gates, no other visible staff.
Carpenders Park (a dreadful early-1950s BR hole accessed through dodgy
local authority aubways) - ticket office open, no UTS gates, no other
visible staff.
Bushey - ticket office open, no UTS gates, no other visible staff.
Watford High Road - ticket office open, UTS gates fitted and in use,
about 4 revenue staff in ticket hall.
Watford Junction - ticket office open, UTS gates fitted and in use,
visible staff but presumably all part of the London Midland operation.

Temporary exterior LO signs at all LO stations except Hatch End which
I suppose might require listed building consent?

Had my ticket checked for the first ever on the former Silverlink
Metro system, the squad on the 3-car train were at least 8-strong!

I'm sure the Mayor's promises regarding ticket office opening and
general staffing is not being met at many LO stations, and even some
of the new Bakerloo Line stations seem deserted much of the time.

North London Line
 

On 12 Jan, 19:57, "Paul Scott" wrote:
How does the shared use of rolling stock work out? *I assume that
Watford - St Albans shares stock with the NLL and Bedford - Bletchley
shares stock with the GOBLIN, or is that no longer the case?

Wikipedia says the St Albans branch normally had a 321, so the split
doesn't affect it.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

North London Line
 

Richard J. wrote:

By contrast, Metro's fleet of Class 313, admittedly around 13 years
older but maintained in the same Bletchley depot, achieved a miserable
5189 miles per casualty last year, compared to FCC's 11,355 mpc with
the same class.

Intially Bletchley but, more recently, Willesden. Reliability plummeted when
Willesden took over responsibility.

North London Line
 

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 18:54:39 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

Silverlink County did have a rocky patch a number of years ago but like
a number of Nat Ex TOCs they just knuckled down and concentrated on the
basics. IIRC they had the most reliable EMUs in Britain with their fleet
of Class 321s based at Bletchley. For a railway getting the most boring
basics right day in, day out is absolutely essential and they did seem
to manage that despite the WCML upgrade works.

Which is the whole point of a commuter operator. Any such operator
that can be described as "boringly competent" or similar has it
spot-on, and Silverlink County was pretty much there.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

North London Line
 

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 22:19:51 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

By contrast, Metro's fleet of Class 313, admittedly around 13 years
older but maintained in the same Bletchley depot, achieved a miserable
5189 miles per casualty last year, compared to FCC's 11,355 mpc with the
same class.

PEP EMUs are crap. But even so, weren't they maintained at Willesden
or Wembley? I forget which but I don't recall seeing any at
Bletchley.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

North London Line
 

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:49:12 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Carpenders Park (a dreadful early-1950s BR hole

Is it really? It has a very LUL art-deco look to it - like a lot of
Heathrow-branch Picc Line stations.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

North London Line
 

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:34:45 -0800 (PST), Mr Thant
wrote:

On 12 Jan, 19:57, "Paul Scott" wrote:
How does the shared use of rolling stock work out? =A0I assume that
Watford - St Albans shares stock with the NLL and Bedford - Bletchley
shares stock with the GOBLIN, or is that no longer the case?

Wikipedia says the St Albans branch normally had a 321, so the split
doesn't affect it.

It had a 313 every time I ever used it (not often, I admit). Someone
I know who works for LM says it's usually a 321, though.

These days, 150s for the Marston Vale come from Brum.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

North London Line
 

On 13 Jan, 03:54, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:34:45 -0800 (PST), Mr Thant

wrote:
On 12 Jan, 19:57, "Paul Scott" wrote:
How does the shared use of rolling stock work out? =A0I assume that
Watford - St Albans shares stock with the NLL and Bedford - Bletchley
shares stock with the GOBLIN, or is that no longer the case?

Wikipedia says the St Albans branch normally had a 321, so the split
doesn't affect it.

It had a 313 every time I ever used it (not often, I admit). *Someone
I know who works for LM says it's usually a 321, though.


I always thought they were 313s, but I have no systematic or recent
experience of the line. Under LM, maybe it's now always a 321.

It does occur to me that there ought to be a lot of spare 321s around,
because I can't see that there are that many new electric services
since the introduction of the 350s. Maybe it's been 321s since the
introduction of 350s, even under Silverlink?

North London Line
 

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 05:01:57 -0800 (PST), MIG
wrote:

It does occur to me that there ought to be a lot of spare 321s around,
because I can't see that there are that many new electric services
since the introduction of the 350s.

Most of them have ended up on Brum-area locals, not to mention the
increased service frequency in the peaks (and 12 car sets) on the
County routes. I don't think there's a lot spare except in the
evenings and on weekends, when it tends to be mainly 321s out and the
Desiros are sitting spare.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

North London Line
 

On Jan 13, 3:53*am, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:49:12 -0800 (PST), wrote:
Carpenders Park (a dreadful early-1950s BR hole

Is it really? *It has a very LUL art-deco look to it - like a lot of
Heathrow-branch Picc Line stations.

If remaining as built this might be true, however the subway entrances
have been retiled by the local authority, the ticket hall refurbished
(possibly in the 80s given the NSE red tiling), the supports to the
platform concrete canopy have been retiled, the original high-quality
maroon enamel BR London Midland Region entrance signage and pole-
mounted joint LT/BR totems are long, long, gone and the only original
finish would appear to be the cream tiles in the sloping subway
leading to the ticket hall. The tall retangular window/toplight above
the ticket office, with the east side following the curve of the
booking office counter is the only feature of note, albeit liberally
covered with graffiti to match much of the exterior brickwork. I would
actually find this station, accessed only by unsupervised council
subways, quite intimidating to use at night.

--
Neil Williams