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Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
I have to make a visit to FCC's central lost property office some time
soon. Will my Cambridge-London Terminals cheap day return be valid to there (City Thameslink) via St Pancras International? Alternatively, will it be valid to Farringdon to reduce my cycling distance if I can't go all the way? I ask that because I am told by a ticket holder that Cambridge-London Terminals seasons at least are valid to Moorgate via Farringdon. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
On 3 Mar, 01:03, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
I have to make a visit to FCC's central lost property office some time soon. Will my Cambridge-London Terminals cheap day return be valid to there (City Thameslink) via St Pancras International? No. See page A4: http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_A.pdf "In addition London Terminals fares are NOT valid if travelling beyond St. Pancras International from the north or beyond City Thameslink from the south." Alternatively, will it be valid to Farringdon to reduce my cycling distance if I can't go all the way? I ask that because I am told by a ticket holder that Cambridge-London Terminals seasons at least are valid to Moorgate via Farringdon. Yes they are, but you're not allowed to use Thameslink services, and you're not allowed out at Farringdon. See page L5: http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_L.pdf "between Kings Cross St Pancras Und and Moorgate (via Circle, Metropolitan, Hammersmith & City and Northern Lines) but intermediately at Old Street ONLY" U -- http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/ A blog about transport projects in London |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
On 3 Mar, 02:25, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote: In article , (Mr Thant) wrote: On 3 Mar, 01:03, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote: I have to make a visit to FCC's central lost property office some time soon. Will my Cambridge-London Terminals cheap day return be valid to there (City Thameslink) via St Pancras International? No. See page A4: http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_A.pdf "In addition London Terminals fares are NOT valid if travelling beyond St. Pancras International from the north or beyond City Thameslink from the south." Curious. On this occasion I'll just cycle from King's Cross but the latter point isn't consistent with the tickets I was sold for Cambridge-London plus London-Brighton and return last year and in 2006. On both occasions I stayed in London overnight on the outward journey and returned direct via King's Cross Thameslink. I think one problem is that ticket office staff are not always au fait with the rules themselves - there have been many past tales here and on uk.railway of people being sold the wrong ticket, including (IIRC Southern) ticket machines issuing them with the wrong destination despite the right request being made! Furthermore even if you have the wrong ticket it might not ever have got flagged up at the ticket gates - past posts have suggested that the ticket gates at Kings Cross Thameslink were programmed very liberally, given the shear variety of ticket types they could feasibly encounter (an issue that has perhaps been transferred over to St Pancras Int'l). I'm not going to dig around for it now but I certainly recall posters reporting that "London Terminals" tickets from points south were accepted by the gates at KX Thameslink even though they shouldn't have been. Alternatively, will it be valid to Farringdon to reduce my cycling distance if I can't go all the way? I ask that because I am told by a ticket holder that Cambridge-London Terminals seasons at least are valid to Moorgate via Farringdon. Yes they are, but you're not allowed to use Thameslink services, and you're not allowed out at Farringdon. See page L5: http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_L.pdf "between Kings Cross St Pancras Und and Moorgate (via Circle, Metropolitan, Hammersmith & City and Northern Lines) but intermediately at Old Street ONLY" Ah! That all explains an old thread here much better than happened at the time. It also suggests that the Moorgate validity is entirely a substitute for validity via the GNC and definitely not a residue of the Widened Lines services pre-1975. Yes, I remember that thread and thought the suggestion that it may have been a legacy from the pre-1975 era were perhaps wide of the mark. The most common explanation I've read is simply that Great Northern electric (aka FCC) services finish operating to/from Moorgate early (circa 10pm) and don't go that way at all at the weekend - so LU can be used to get to/from these GN&CR stations instead. |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
In article
, (Mizter T) wrote: On 3 Mar, 02:25, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote: In article , (Mr Thant) wrote: On 3 Mar, 01:03, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote: I have to make a visit to FCC's central lost property office some time soon. Will my Cambridge-London Terminals cheap day return be valid to there (City Thameslink) via St Pancras International? No. See page A4: http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_A.pdf "In addition London Terminals fares are NOT valid if travelling beyond St. Pancras International from the north or beyond City Thameslink from the south." Curious. On this occasion I'll just cycle from King's Cross but the latter point isn't consistent with the tickets I was sold for Cambridge-London plus London-Brighton and return last year and in 2006. On both occasions I stayed in London overnight on the outward journey and returned direct via King's Cross Thameslink. I think one problem is that ticket office staff are not always au fait with the rules themselves - there have been many past tales here and on uk.railway of people being sold the wrong ticket, including (IIRC Southern) ticket machines issuing them with the wrong destination despite the right request being made! Furthermore even if you have the wrong ticket it might not ever have got flagged up at the ticket gates - past posts have suggested that the ticket gates at Kings Cross Thameslink were programmed very liberally, given the shear variety of ticket types they could feasibly encounter (an issue that has perhaps been transferred over to St Pancras Int'l). I'm not going to dig around for it now but I certainly recall posters reporting that "London Terminals" tickets from points south were accepted by the gates at KX Thameslink even though they shouldn't have been. In my case my tickets were never tested in the KX TL gates because if you had any luggage (even in my case just shoulder bags on at least one occasion) you had to use the manual gates where the staff just let me through. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
"Mizter T" wrote in message
... I think one problem is that ticket office staff are not always au fait with the rules themselves - there have been many past tales here and on uk.railway of people being sold the wrong ticket, including (IIRC Southern) ticket machines issuing them with the wrong destination despite the right request being made! Furthermore even if you have the wrong ticket it might not ever have got flagged up at the ticket gates - past posts have suggested that the ticket gates at Kings Cross Thameslink were programmed very liberally, given the shear variety of ticket types they could feasibly encounter (an issue that has perhaps been transferred over to St Pancras Int'l). I'm not going to dig around for it now but I certainly recall posters reporting that "London Terminals" tickets from points south were accepted by the gates at KX Thameslink even though they shouldn't have been. I had a similar incident not too long ago. IIRC, I bought a Saver Return ticket to Gatwick from the ticket machine at KX Thameslink, which listed Gatwick and London Terminals as my destinations. Going through the gates and getting out to the airport was not a problem, but the return was another story as the gates would not let me exit back at KX Thameslink. One of the attendents then told me that the ticket was not good as the destination was London Terminals, although he waved me through. So, -- Why was I sold that ticket if there was going to be a probelm with my getting back? Was it actually me who purchased the wrong ticket? If so, then what ticket should I have purchased? -- What significance does London Terminals have on tickets? I thought that such a destination was good anywhere within London. |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
On Mar 3, 4:13 pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article , (Mizter T) wrote: On 3 Mar, 02:25, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote: In article , (Mr Thant) wrote: On 3 Mar, 01:03, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote: I have to make a visit to FCC's central lost property office some time soon. Will my Cambridge-London Terminals cheap day return be valid to there (City Thameslink) via St Pancras International? No. See page A4: http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_A.pdf "In addition London Terminals fares are NOT valid if travelling beyond St. Pancras International from the north or beyond City Thameslink from the south." Curious. On this occasion I'll just cycle from King's Cross but the latter point isn't consistent with the tickets I was sold for Cambridge-London plus London-Brighton and return last year and in 2006. On both occasions I stayed in London overnight on the outward journey and returned direct via King's Cross Thameslink. I think one problem is that ticket office staff are not always au fait with the rules themselves - there have been many past tales here and on uk.railway of people being sold the wrong ticket, including (IIRC Southern) ticket machines issuing them with the wrong destination despite the right request being made! Furthermore even if you have the wrong ticket it might not ever have got flagged up at the ticket gates - past posts have suggested that the ticket gates at Kings Cross Thameslink were programmed very liberally, given the shear variety of ticket types they could feasibly encounter (an issue that has perhaps been transferred over to St Pancras Int'l). I'm not going to dig around for it now but I certainly recall posters reporting that "London Terminals" tickets from points south were accepted by the gates at KX Thameslink even though they shouldn't have been. In my case my tickets were never tested in the KX TL gates because if you had any luggage (even in my case just shoulder bags on at least one occasion) you had to use the manual gates where the staff just let me through. As some may know, I have Cambridge - London Terminals season ticket and commute daily to Moorgate, using LU between KX and Moorgate. I can confirm my ticket gets rejected by the gates at Barbican and Farringdon (on the occasions when I tried that I used my pre-pay Oyster instead to leave the station: that was in the days when you weren't penalised for an unresolved journey). However my ticket *does* open the gates at St Pancras Low Level, despite my ticket not being valid there. (I only ever do this on the occasions when KX Underground is closed due to overcrowding and passengers are asked to divert to nearby stations). PaulO |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
On 3 Mar, 21:19, Paul Oter wrote:
(snip) As some may know, I have Cambridge - London Terminals season ticket and commute daily to Moorgate, using LU between KX and Moorgate. I can confirm my ticket gets rejected by the gates at Barbican and Farringdon (on the occasions when I tried that I used my pre-pay Oyster instead to leave the station: that was in the days when you weren't penalised for an unresolved journey). If I had such a ticket I would certainly have tested the gates as you had done out of pure curiosity! You can of course perform such tests if you are also in possession of a Day Travelcard or even an LU single printed ticket - indeed you could also do so if you were willing to take the £4 unresolved journey 'penalty' (though technically given that the National Rail ticket isn't valid at intermediate one would be breaking the strict letter of the rules). However my ticket *does* open the gates at St Pancras Low Level, despite my ticket not being valid there. (I only ever do this on the occasions when KX Underground is closed due to overcrowding and passengers are asked to divert to nearby stations). Which would support a thought I had in my head - I'd wager that FCC have merely copied the rules they used for the gates at KX Thameslink and are using the same ones, unamended, for their new gates at St Pancras Int'l low level. If this is the case then the London Terminals tickets from points south that were erroneously accepted by the gates at KX Thameslink might well also be accepted at St Pancras low level - unless the rules were specified more tightly at some point since then. |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
wrote: "Mizter T" wrote: I think one problem is that ticket office staff are not always au fait with the rules themselves - there have been many past tales here and on uk.railway of people being sold the wrong ticket, including (IIRC Southern) ticket machines issuing them with the wrong destination despite the right request being made! Furthermore even if you have the wrong ticket it might not ever have got flagged up at the ticket gates - past posts have suggested that the ticket gates at Kings Cross Thameslink were programmed very liberally, given the shear variety of ticket types they could feasibly encounter (an issue that has perhaps been transferred over to St Pancras Int'l). I'm not going to dig around for it now but I certainly recall posters reporting that "London Terminals" tickets from points south were accepted by the gates at KX Thameslink even though they shouldn't have been. I had a similar incident not too long ago. IIRC, I bought a Saver Return ticket to Gatwick from the ticket machine at KX Thameslink, which listed Gatwick and London Terminals as my destinations. Going through the gates and getting out to the airport was not a problem, but the return was another story as the gates would not let me exit back at KX Thameslink. One of the attendents then told me that the ticket was not good as the destination was London Terminals, although he waved me through. So, -- Why was I sold that ticket if there was going to be a problem with my getting back? Was it actually me who purchased the wrong ticket? If so, then what ticket should I have purchased? Because the ticket machine was very badly programmed badly. Anyone buying tickets at KX Thameslink for a trip to Gatwick quite obviously wants to use Thameslink through central London to get there. The ticket machine there shouldn't have even offered anything else. A properly issued ticket for that journey would have specified Kings Cross Thameslink as the named station of origin station (*not* London Terminals). -- What significance does London Terminals have on tickets? I thought that such a destination was good anywhere within London. They are not. Mr Thant set out the rules clearly upthread in the first reply to Colin's post. Look at the National Fares Manual section A - the relevant pages are A4 and A5: http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_A.pdf The all important sentence from the National Fares Manual is this... "In addition London Terminals fares are NOT valid if travelling beyond St. Pancras International from the north or beyond City Thameslink from the south." |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
The all important sentence from the National Fares Manual is this... "In addition London Terminals fares are NOT valid if travelling beyond St. Pancras International from the north or beyond City Thameslink from the south."- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - So can I get a priv ticket from Radlett to Farringdon, or would I need to get out at St Pancras International, surrender the ticket, then use the oyster for the rest of the journey? Burkey |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
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Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
On 4 Mar, 01:02, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote: In article , (Mizter T) wrote: On 3 Mar, 20:45, wrote: IIRC, I bought a Saver Return ticket to Gatwick from the ticket machine at KX Thameslink, which listed Gatwick and London Terminals as my destinations. Going through the gates and getting out to the airport was not a problem, but the return was another story as the gates would not let me exit back at KX Thameslink. One of the attendents then told me that the ticket was not good as the destination was London Terminals, although he waved me through. So, -- Why was I sold that ticket if there was going to be a problem with my getting back? Was it actually me who purchased the wrong ticket? If so, then what ticket should I have purchased? Because the ticket machine was very badly programmed badly. Anyone buying tickets at KX Thameslink for a trip to Gatwick quite obviously wants to use Thameslink through central London to get there. The ticket machine there shouldn't have even offered anything else. A properly issued ticket for that journey would have specified Kings Cross Thameslink as the named station of origin station (*not* London Terminals). Isn't a St Pancras International-Gatwick ticket cheaper now as well? Cheaper than what? For London to Gatwick journeys, FCC-only tickets are cheaper than 'Any Permitted' tickets (though not as cheaper {sic} as they used to be). I suppose it would be possible for one to obtain a St Pancras Int'l - Gatwick 'Any Permitted' ticket instead of an FCC-only one, if you particularly wanted to travel down from London Bridge on the slow Southern train! However it is quite possible for one to obtain an FCC-only London Terminals - Gatwick ticket - the same rules as detailed upthread would apply, i.e. it would only be valid for journeys starting from City Thameslink and points south (Blackfriars, London Bridge) though you would only be able to use it on FCC trains. Because the world is mad you cannot use 'Any Permitted' tickets on Gatwick Express - though this problem will shortly be remedied with the abolishment of Gatwick Express. Well, that's not quite the story! |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
On 4 Mar, 00:31, wrote:
The all important sentence from the National Fares Manual is this... "In addition London Terminals fares are NOT valid if travelling beyond St. Pancras International from the north or beyond City Thameslink from the south."- Hide quoted text - So can I get a priv ticket from Radlett to Farringdon, or would I need to get out at St Pancras International, surrender the ticket, then use the oyster for the rest of the journey? You can get a ticket (whether priv or normal) no problem, you just need to specify Farringdon as your destination when you start off. You will actually be issued with a ticket to destination "London Thameslink" (see bottom left of page A5 of the NFM) - this is a special group of stations that includes... St Pancras Int'l, Farringdon, City Thameslink, London Blackfriars, London Bridge and Elephant & Castle ....so if you have a return you can start from any of those stations back up to Radlett. Note that whilst fares *to* these stations are issued to "London Thameslink", tickets purchased *from* these stations are issued with the origin as the specific named station. |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
Mizter T wrote:
However it is quite possible for one to obtain an FCC-only London Terminals - Gatwick ticket - the same rules as detailed upthread would apply, i.e. it would only be valid for journeys starting from City Thameslink and points south (Blackfriars, London Bridge) though you would only be able to use it on FCC trains. Because the world is mad you cannot use 'Any Permitted' tickets on Gatwick Express - though this problem will shortly be remedied with the abolishment of Gatwick Express. Is this a general statement, or only about London Terminals-GTW tickets? -- Michael Hoffman |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
On 4 Mar, 01:50, Mizter T wrote:
Because the world is mad you cannot use 'Any Permitted' tickets on Gatwick Express - though this problem will shortly be remedied with the abolishment of Gatwick Express. According to TheTrainLine, there is no Any Permitted London Terminals- Gatwick fare. I've used a Gatwick-Finsbury Park "Any Permitted" ticket on the Gatwick Express without any objection from the ticket inspector, and it's cheaper than the standard Gatwick Express fare to London. U -- http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/ A blog about transport projects in London |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
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Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article , (Mizter T) wrote: On 4 Mar, 01:02, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote: In article , (Mizter T) wrote: On 3 Mar, 20:45, wrote: IIRC, I bought a Saver Return ticket to Gatwick from the ticket machine at KX Thameslink, which listed Gatwick and London Terminals as my destinations. Going through the gates and getting out to the airport was not a problem, but the return was another story as the gates would not let me exit gates would gates would not let me exit back at KX Thameslink. One of the attendents then told me that the ticket was not good as the destination was London Terminals, although he waved me through. So, -- Why was I sold that ticket if there was going to be a problem with my getting back? Was it actually me who purchased the wrong ticket? If so, then what ticket should I have purchased? Because the ticket machine was very badly programmed badly. Anyone buying tickets at KX Thameslink for a trip to Gatwick quite obviously wants to use Thameslink through central London to get there. The ticket machine there shouldn't have even offered anything else. A properly issued ticket for that journey would have specified Kings Cross Thameslink as the named station of origin station (*not* London Terminals). Isn't a St Pancras International-Gatwick ticket cheaper now as well? Cheaper than what? For London to Gatwick journeys, FCC-only tickets are cheaper than 'Any Permitted' tickets (though not as cheaper {sic} as they used to be). I suppose it would be possible for one to obtain a St Pancras Int'l - Gatwick 'Any Permitted' ticket instead of an FCC-only one, if you particularly wanted to travel down from London Bridge on the slow Southern train! However it is quite possible for one to obtain an FCC-only London Terminals - Gatwick ticket - the same rules as detailed upthread would apply, i.e. it would only be valid for journeys starting from City Thameslink and points south (Blackfriars, London Bridge) though you would only be able to use it on FCC trains. I was thinking of FCC-only tickets valid for that journey, as offered to me for Cambridge-Brighton via London journeys. Anyway, I had to go to City Thameslink today because that's where FCC have hidden the lost property office we in Cambridge have to use now. It would be too convenient for them to continue using the Cambridge lost property office for GN route stuff, after all! So I made a point of asking the Shere machine at Cambridge not for a London Terminals day return but one to City Thameslink. It sold me one to London Terminals anyway, at the usual price. I asked at the Cambridge barriers whether the barriers at Kings Cross would take the ticket. They thought they would. When I got to King's Cross suburban I asked how I was supposed to get to City Thameslink and they let me through the barrier manually. At St Pancras International the barrier let me though with the ticket and at City Thameslink (what a walk to the Holborn Viaduct exit!) the barrier let me through and swallowed my ticket. So a lot of systems seem not to agree with the fares manual! I'd have got there a lot quicker by bike, mind. Southern ticket offices have told me a couple of times in the past 3-4 months that Croydon/Sutton/etc to St Pancras (was KXTL) route Thameslink tickets are no more, and a London Terminals ticket is now valid though London by FCC. I queried it each time, but they said it was valid and it worked the gates. Sutton/Croydon - London Terminals tickets always used to work the gates at KXTL, though not Farringdon. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 17:59:51 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote: On 4 Mar, 00:31, wrote: The all important sentence from the National Fares Manual is this... "In addition London Terminals fares are NOT valid if travelling beyond St. Pancras International from the north or beyond City Thameslink from the south."- Hide quoted text - So can I get a priv ticket from Radlett to Farringdon, or would I need to get out at St Pancras International, surrender the ticket, then use the oyster for the rest of the journey? You can get a ticket (whether priv or normal) no problem, you just need to specify Farringdon as your destination when you start off. You will actually be issued with a ticket to destination "London Thameslink" Not necessarily. From St Albans I can get a ticket either to Farringdon Und, route Not Underground, or to London Thameslink. ISTR that the latter did not work the barrier at Farrongdon but was accepted by the barrier staff. -- Peter Lawrence |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
Arthur Figgis wrote:
Southern ticket offices have told me a couple of times in the past 3-4 months that Croydon/Sutton/etc to St Pancras (was KXTL) route Thameslink tickets are no more, and a London Terminals ticket is now valid though London by FCC. A Southern ticket office told me that a route SOUTHERN ONLY ticket was valid on Thameslink too. Use a heaping portion of salt. -- Michael Hoffman |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
"Paul Oter" wrote in message ... As some may know, I have Cambridge - London Terminals season ticket and commute daily to Moorgate, using LU between KX and Moorgate. I can confirm my ticket gets rejected by the gates at Barbican and Farringdon (on the occasions when I tried that I used my pre-pay Oyster instead to leave the station: that was in the days when you weren't penalised for an unresolved journey). I would have thought you should be able to use the side gate. The fact that a ticket is rejected by the gates doesn't mean it's not valid at that destination - see my comment about East Croydon below. However my ticket *does* open the gates at St Pancras Low Level, despite my ticket not being valid there. (I only ever do this on the occasions when KX Underground is closed due to overcrowding and passengers are asked to divert to nearby stations). I think we need to distinguish between ticket validity and the limitations of the magnetic stripe technology that drives the gates. For example: my Hove - London Terminals season is valid at East Croydon but it won't open the ticket gates there - never has done and never will. I would be interested in informed opinion as to validity at stations north of City Thameslink - my understanding is that my ticket is not valid, even though it *might* operate the gates at St Pancras (because it's a London Terminal). What I would really like is a season ticket that I can use for travel between my choice of Moorgate, Barbican, Farringdon, Victoria and Hove or Brighton (yes, really, I don't need the rest of the Underground most of the time!). I met someone who had a Hove - Farringdon season which, bizarrely, was slightly cheaper than either Brighton - Farringdon or Hove - London Terminals. He didn't seem to have any problem using it for the occasions he travelled Brighton - Victoria, although he had to use the side gate at the Brighton end (still bizarre. because my Hove season is quite happy opening the gates at Brighton. David A Stocks |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
[crossposted to uk.railway]
On 5 Mar, 12:19, "David A Stocks" wrote: "Paul Oter" wrote in message As some may know, I have Cambridge - London Terminals season ticket and commute daily to Moorgate, using LU between KX and Moorgate. I can confirm my ticket gets rejected by the gates at Barbican and Farringdon (on the occasions when I tried that I used my pre-pay Oyster instead to leave the station: that was in the days when you weren't penalised for an unresolved journey). I would have thought you should be able to use the side gate. The fact that a ticket is rejected by the gates doesn't mean it's not valid at that destination - see my comment about East Croydon below. First off it's worth noting that this issue has nothing to do with Thameslink - this is about season tickets on the Great Northern route into London (KX or Moorgate). The National Fares Manual is quite clear in stating that the National Rail season tickets in question are *not* valid for entry/exit at intermediate stations such as Farringdon. See page L5 of the NFM section L (PDF): http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_L.pdf "National Rail tickets which include validity ... between Finsbury Park and London Terminals ... are also valid by LU/DLR services ... between Kings Cross St Pancras Und and Moorgate (via Circle, Metropolitan, Hammersmith & City and Northern Lines) but intermediately at Old Street ONLY". However my ticket *does* open the gates at St Pancras Low Level, despite my ticket not being valid there. (I only ever do this on the occasions when KX Underground is closed due to overcrowding and passengers are asked to divert to nearby stations). I think we need to distinguish between ticket validity and the limitations of the magnetic stripe technology that drives the gates. For example: my Hove - London Terminals season is valid at East Croydon but it won't open the ticket gates there - never has done and never will. I would be interested in informed opinion as to validity at stations north of City Thameslink - my understanding is that my ticket is not valid, even though it *might* operate the gates at St Pancras (because it's a London Terminal). A ticket to London Terminals from points south thereof is *not* valid north of City Thameslink. However, it may nonetheless operate the gates at St Pancras Int'l, because the gates have seemingly just copied the programming that was used at KX Thameslink and these were reported by many to be rather lax - i.e. the gates pass tickets that are not valid. What I would really like is a season ticket that I can use for travel between my choice of Moorgate, Barbican, Farringdon, Victoria and Hove or Brighton (yes, really, I don't need the rest of the Underground most of the time!). I met someone who had a Hove - Farringdon season which, bizarrely, was slightly cheaper than either Brighton - Farringdon or Hove - London Terminals. He didn't seem to have any problem using it for the occasions he travelled Brighton - Victoria, although he had to use the side gate at the Brighton end (still bizarre. because my Hove season is quite happy opening the gates at Brighton. You could have a London Terminals - Hove season, as you do at present, plus a Farringdon - City Thameslink season, though that would *only* allow you to travel from Farringdon on Thameslink, not on the Underground from Moorgate or Barbican. (TBH if I was near Moorgate I would just consider walking to London Bridge for the train, though I suppose there's significantly less chance of a seat by then). Regarding your fellow commuter - I wonder if the Hove - Farringdon was cheaper on the assumption that he would travel from Brighton to Farringdon on FCC, so FCC were responsible for pricing the ticket. I wonder if it was marked "Route: FCC only", though of course one would need to use Southern from Hove to Brighton (or one of the however many - or rather the however few - FGW trains that also serve Hove and Brighton). My thinking is merely that FCC-only fares are cheaper from London to Brighton. I'm far from sure that a Brighton - Farringdon season ticket is in fact valid to Victoria - the fact it was accepted on the gateline is certainly not proof of its validity! |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
On Mar 5, 1:01*pm, Mizter T wrote:
The National Fares Manual is quite clear in stating that the National Rail season tickets in question are *not* valid for entry/exit at intermediate stations such as Farringdon. See page L5 of the NFM section L (PDF):http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_L.pdf "National Rail tickets which include validity ... between Finsbury Park and London Terminals ... are also valid by LU/DLR services ... between Kings Cross St Pancras Und and Moorgate (via Circle, Metropolitan, Hammersmith & City and Northern Lines) but intermediately at Old Street ONLY". An All Line Rover includes " validity ... between Finsbury Park and London Terminals ... ", so is that also valid between King's Cross St Pancras and Moorgate? Apparently LUL staff have been told not to accept them. |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
On 5 Mar, 16:36, Yorkie wrote: On Mar 5, 1:01 pm, Mizter T wrote: The National Fares Manual is quite clear in stating that the National Rail season tickets in question are *not* valid for entry/exit at intermediate stations such as Farringdon. See page L5 of the NFM section L (PDF): http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_L.pdf "National Rail tickets which include validity ... between Finsbury Park and London Terminals ... are also valid by LU/DLR services ... between Kings Cross St Pancras Und and Moorgate (via Circle, Metropolitan, Hammersmith & City and Northern Lines) but intermediately at Old Street ONLY". An All Line Rover includes " validity ... between Finsbury Park and London Terminals ... ", so is that also valid between King's Cross St Pancras and Moorgate? Apparently LUL staff have been told not to accept them. I had also pondered that when I was looking at that ticket inter- availability list quite recently in relation to another thread. I suppose one argument would be that the conditions of the All Line Rover ticket - i.e. that it's not valid on LU services whatsoever - trump the above instruction (and all the other similar examples on that list). |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
Not necessarily. From St Albans I can get a ticket either to
Farringdon Und, route Not Underground, or to London Thameslink. ISTR that the latter did not work the barrier at Farrongdon but was accepted by the barrier staff. Out of interest, which one is cheaper? |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
On Mar 4, 9:36 pm, "Peter Lawrence" wrote:
Not necessarily. From St Albans I can get a ticket either to Farringdon Und, route Not Underground, or to London Thameslink. ISTR that the latter did not work the barrier at Farrongdon but was accepted by the barrier staff. Where the hell is Farrongdon? No wonder your ticket didn't work :-) IME there were a couple of occasions when my London Thameslink ticket failed to work the gates, but now all is hunky dory. Whenever possible I try to get a London Thameslink ticket because of its additional flexibility in Central London (when compared with destination-specific tickets that have the same route validity). Intriguingly (is that a word?) some tickets from the north to City Thameslink southwards are still sold as route Any Permitted but at a premium compared to route Not Underground tickets, which are now the 'standard' option and are sold for what the former were sold for (when adjusted for inflation) until this year. |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
Lew 1 wrote:
Not necessarily. From St Albans I can get a ticket either to Farringdon Und, route Not Underground, or to London Thameslink. ISTR that the latter did not work the barrier at Farrongdon but was accepted by the barrier staff. Out of interest, which one is cheaper? Provided that the London Thameslink ticket is also route Not Underground, they are sold at the same price. The London Thameslink ticket even allows you to go as far south as London Bridge/Elephant & Castle. |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
IME there were a couple of occasions when my London Thameslink ticket
failed to work the gates, but now all is hunky dory. Whenever possible I try to get a London Thameslink ticket because of its additional flexibility in Central London (when compared with destination-specific tickets that have the same route validity). For a while, I thought that "London Thameslink" as a destination was always rejected by the new Blackfriars gates, however since then I have found that every ticket I try to use - be it a Travelcard or to another destination requiring an Underground change in London - is rejected. I am now certain that the gates there are set up to reject any ticket bought with a Young Persons Railcard, as when I go through the manual gate, the staff always want to see my photocard and not even on-board staff ever ask to see that! (I keep it hidden unless requested, because I absolutely hate the photograph on it) Assuming I am right (and I think I am, as I have seen tickets bought at the same machine at the same time but without the railcard discount get through first time), is this the only gate set-up in London that requires Railcard holders to use the manual gate? LEWIS |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
Michael Hoffman wrote:
Arthur Figgis wrote: Southern ticket offices have told me a couple of times in the past 3-4 months that Croydon/Sutton/etc to St Pancras (was KXTL) route Thameslink tickets are no more, and a London Terminals ticket is now valid though London by FCC. A Southern ticket office told me that a route SOUTHERN ONLY ticket was valid on Thameslink too. Use a heaping portion of salt. Do they exist? I've seen route Thameslink (I guess FCC now), but not route Southern. Something Gatwick related? The thing that intrigued me was that this came from staff who usually know what they are doing - the sort who happily sell tickets to London International, or say "you don't want to do that, if you do this it will be cheaper". -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
Arthur Figgis wrote:
Michael Hoffman wrote: Arthur Figgis wrote: Southern ticket offices have told me a couple of times in the past 3-4 months that Croydon/Sutton/etc to St Pancras (was KXTL) route Thameslink tickets are no more, and a London Terminals ticket is now valid though London by FCC. A Southern ticket office told me that a route SOUTHERN ONLY ticket was valid on Thameslink too. Use a heaping portion of salt. Do they exist? I've seen route Thameslink (I guess FCC now), but not route Southern. Something Gatwick related? Yeah, it was from London Terminals to Gatwick Airport sold at London Victoria. -- Michael Hoffman |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
Lew 1 wrote:
For a while, I thought that "London Thameslink" as a destination was always rejected by the new Blackfriars gates, however since then I have found that every ticket I try to use - be it a Travelcard or to another destination requiring an Underground change in London - is rejected. I am now certain that the gates there are set up to reject any ticket bought with a Young Persons Railcard, as when I go through the manual gate, the staff always want to see my photocard and not even on-board staff ever ask to see that! (I keep it hidden unless requested, because I absolutely hate the photograph on it) Assuming I am right (and I think I am, as I have seen tickets bought at the same machine at the same time but without the railcard discount get through first time), is this the only gate set-up in London that requires Railcard holders to use the manual gate? That's odd. I've used London Blackfriars semi-regularly over the last 18 months (including earlier this week) and as a Y-P ticket holder I've never had any problems with the gates. May I ask from where you usually buy your tickets? |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
That's odd. I've used London Blackfriars semi-regularly over the last 18
months (including earlier this week) and as a Y-P ticket holder I've never had any problems with the gates. May I ask from where you usually buy your tickets? Luton Airport Parkway. And as of last week, I still can't get through the gates - yet other gates let them through fine. (Including Blackfriars LUL). |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
Lew 1 wrote:
Luton Airport Parkway. And as of last week, I still can't get through the gates - yet other gates let them through fine. (Including Blackfriars LUL). That's even more wierd - my tickets from last week were also issued there, although they were purchased from NXEC via their website earlier and I merely collected them from a TVM. Admittedly over the past 18 months most of my tickets have been issued in London (even though I travel to/from LAP often, whose TVMs have only been ToD-enabled recently) given, IMX, the covenience of buying and collecting tickets once a week rather than having to buy one every single weekday. (And yes, my travels are such that they are cheaper than season tickets.) If you haven't already done so I'd suggest contacting FCC Customer Relations, and in the meantime I'd also suggest using City Thameslink, which is (approximately) a mere 200 yards north of London Blackfriars at the Ludgate Hill end. Depending on your circumstances it *might* be worth buying your tickets at another Thameslink station (e.g. Luton), unless you've already tried that to no avail. Finally, if FCC don't resolve the problem within a reasonable amount of time (after you have contacted them) then contact LondonTravelWatch or Passenger Focus. |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
"Sky Rider" wrote in message
... Lew 1 wrote: Luton Airport Parkway. And as of last week, I still can't get through the gates - yet other gates let them through fine. (Including Blackfriars LUL). That's even more wierd - my tickets from last week were also issued there, although they were purchased from NXEC via their website earlier and I merely collected them from a TVM. Admittedly over the past 18 months most of my tickets have been issued in London (even though I travel to/from LAP often, whose TVMs have only been ToD-enabled recently) given, IMX, the covenience of buying and collecting tickets once a week rather than having to buy one every single weekday. (And yes, my travels are such that they are cheaper than season tickets.) Am I right in thinking that whilst all the FCC machines allow pick-up from their own website bookings, only Luton Airport Parkway allows it from other parties, say, The Train Line? If you haven't already done so I'd suggest contacting FCC Customer Relations, and in the meantime I'd also suggest using City Thameslink, which is (approximately) a mere 200 yards north of London Blackfriars at the Ludgate Hill end. Depending on your circumstances it *might* be worth buying your tickets at another Thameslink station (e.g. Luton), unless you've already tried that to no avail. Now, I have bought tickets from Harpenden before but I can't remember whether I used Blackfriars on that occasion - I will make it my business to find out next time, for purely nosey reasons. I should add that it doesn't bother me that I have to go through the manual gate, in fact strangely I quite like the fact that my Railcard is actually checked once in a while. The problem with an entirely gated network is that it may check that the desintations, dates and time are correct, but there is nothing to check whether you are entitled to any particular discount or not. (Indeed, I have to admit that I have purchased a discounted ticket in the past only to realise I didn't have my railcard with me. I continued travelling anyway, as I knew the gates at Luton would let me through with no bother.) |
Thameslink/FCC ticket validity question again
Lew 1 wrote:
Am I right in thinking that whilst all the FCC machines allow pick-up from their own website bookings, only Luton Airport Parkway allows it from other parties, say, The Train Line? Basically if a machine can issue pre-paid tickets then it doesn't matter who handled your online booking. Here's a more detailed explanation I posted in another thread (I should add that FCC have managed a 'workaround' of some sort with regard to the last paragraph): http://groups.google.com/group/uk.ra...24ec1e7f216c61 Now, I have bought tickets from Harpenden before but I can't remember whether I used Blackfriars on that occasion - I will make it my business to find out next time, for purely nosey reasons. Ironically certain tickets (e.g. Cheap Day Return) issued to London Thameslink are the same price regardless of whether your ticket is valid from Harpenden or Luton Airport Parkway... I should add that it doesn't bother me that I have to go through the manual gate, in fact strangely I quite like the fact that my Railcard is actually checked once in a while. Personally I always show my railcard and tickets together (unless I use an automatic gate) but hey, each to their own. The problem with an entirely gated network is that it may check that the desintations, dates and time are correct, but there is nothing to check whether you are entitled to any particular discount or not. That is a very good point. It might not be a problem if on-train gripping was actually done frequently (I have been gripped on FCC trains twice in the last 3 months, in spite of their fabled reputation), but the gatelines at London Blackfriars may have been programmed differently as an alternative measure. |
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