Northern Line near collision
 

On 14 Jun 2007, 15:34, Christopher A.Lee wrote:
One wonders why the motorman didn't notice there was no signal at that
end of the platform.

The RAIB final report is out:
http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/...port062008.cfm

The basic thrust is that he was looking at the CCTV monitor in the cab
(where a repeater signal was visible) and in a hurry to leave, so
didn't notice the stop disc or lack of a starter signal.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

Northern Line near collision
 

On Mar 11, 9:31*pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 14 Jun 2007, 15:34, Christopher A.Lee wrote:

One wonders why the motorman didn't notice there was no signal at that
end of the platform.

The RAIB final report is out:http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/...ts/reports_200...

The basic thrust is that he was looking at the CCTV monitor in the cab
(where a repeater signal was visible) and in a hurry to leave, so
didn't notice the stop disc or lack of a starter signal.

U

--http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

The RAIB also point out that it is easier psychologically to notice
things that are there than things which are absent. I think this
report is a model of clarity in detailing all of the factors that go
together to make up the fatal cocktail that lies behind many
accidents.
It demonstrates how right it was to create a blame free accident
investigation culture light years away from the BTP treating
everything as a scene of crime and participants enforced silence on
their lawyers or unions advice. In the not so good old days the recent
problems with flying ISO boxes would have assumed the significance of
the corner gauge cracking shut down, Well done the RAIB.

Northern Line near collision
 

"Mr Thant" wrote in message
...
On 14 Jun 2007, 15:34, Christopher A.Lee wrote:
One wonders why the motorman didn't notice there was no signal at that
end of the platform.

The RAIB final report is out:
http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/...port062008.cfm


Did the driver get the sack over that??

Northern Line near collision
 

On 12 Mar, 08:23, Mwmbwls wrote:
On Mar 11, 9:31*pm, Mr Thant
wrote:

On 14 Jun 2007, 15:34, Christopher A.Lee wrote:

One wonders why the motorman didn't notice there was no signal at that
end of the platform.

The RAIB final report is out:http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/...ts/reports_200...

The basic thrust is that he was looking at the CCTV monitor in the cab
(where a repeater signal was visible) and in a hurry to leave, so
didn't notice the stop disc or lack of a starter signal.

U

--http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

The RAIB also point out that it is easier psychologically to notice
things that are there than things which are absent. I think this
report is a model of clarity in detailing all of the factors that go
together to make up the fatal cocktail that lies behind many
accidents.
It demonstrates how right it was to create a blame free accident
investigation culture light years away from the BTP treating
everything as a scene of crime and participants enforced silence on
their lawyers or unions advice. In the not so good old days the recent
problems with flying ISO boxes would have assumed the significance of
the corner gauge cracking shut down, Well done the RAIB.

It kind of demonstrates how a safety feature can indirectly cause an
accident, given that without the CCTV he would have looked for, and
noticed the lack of, the signal.

More importantly, like other near accidents (eg the opening of the
rear doors over the junction in the dark at Hither Green when the
driver forgot the length of the train), it couldn't have happened if
they still had guards.

Northern Line near collision
 

On 12 Mar, 19:57, MIG wrote:
On 12 Mar, 08:23, Mwmbwls wrote:





On Mar 11, 9:31*pm, Mr Thant
wrote:

On 14 Jun 2007, 15:34, Christopher A.Lee wrote:

One wonders why the motorman didn't notice there was no signal at that
end of the platform.

The RAIB final report is out:http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/...ts/reports_200...

The basic thrust is that he was looking at the CCTV monitor in the cab
(where a repeater signal was visible) and in a hurry to leave, so
didn't notice the stop disc or lack of a starter signal.

U

--http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

The RAIB also point out that it is easier psychologically to notice
things that are there than things which are absent. I think this
report is a model of clarity in detailing all of the factors that go
together to make up the fatal cocktail that lies behind many
accidents.
It demonstrates how right it was to create a blame free accident
investigation culture light years away from the BTP treating
everything as a scene of crime and participants enforced silence on
their lawyers or unions advice. In the not so good old days the recent
problems with flying ISO boxes would have assumed the significance of
the corner gauge cracking shut down, Well done the RAIB.

It kind of demonstrates how a safety feature can indirectly cause an
accident, given that without the CCTV he would have looked for, and
noticed the lack of, the signal.

More importantly, like other near accidents (eg the opening of the
rear doors over the junction in the dark at Hither Green when the
driver forgot the length of the train), it couldn't have happened if
they still had guards.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My congratulations to the RAIB for the quality of their investigation,
too. This is, I feel, the quiet revolution of recent years.

However, I feel that an obvious suggestion has been overlooked. Why
not paint the end walls of platform tunnels a distinctive colour to
indicate the normal direction of travel - or perhaps to mark ends from
which movements are not normally carried out? The driver would have
clocked he was heading the wrong way down the platform straight away.

Rob.

Northern Line near collision
 

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:57:10 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be MIG
wrote this:-

More importantly, like other near accidents (eg the opening of the
rear doors over the junction in the dark at Hither Green when the
driver forgot the length of the train), it couldn't have happened if
they still had guards.

Couldn't?

More likely not to have happened, quite likely, but guards have been
responsible for a number of incidents which could have been
dangerous. IIRC at least one of the door opening incidents on London
Transport was caused by a guard, perhaps one of the ones involving a
moving train.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Northern Line near collision
 

On 12 Mar, 20:44, wrote:
On 12 Mar, 19:57, MIG wrote:





On 12 Mar, 08:23, Mwmbwls wrote:

On Mar 11, 9:31*pm, Mr Thant
wrote:

On 14 Jun 2007, 15:34, Christopher A.Lee wrote:

One wonders why the motorman didn't notice there was no signal at that
end of the platform.

The RAIB final report is out:http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/...ts/reports_200...

The basic thrust is that he was looking at the CCTV monitor in the cab
(where a repeater signal was visible) and in a hurry to leave, so
didn't notice the stop disc or lack of a starter signal.

U

--http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

The RAIB also point out that it is easier psychologically to notice
things that are there than things which are absent. I think this
report is a model of clarity in detailing all of the factors that go
together to make up the fatal cocktail that lies behind many
accidents.
It demonstrates how right it was to create a blame free accident
investigation culture light years away from the BTP treating
everything as a scene of crime and participants enforced silence on
their lawyers or unions advice. In the not so good old days the recent
problems with flying ISO boxes would have assumed the significance of
the corner gauge cracking shut down, Well done the RAIB.

It kind of demonstrates how a safety feature can indirectly cause an
accident, given that without the CCTV he would have looked for, and
noticed the lack of, the signal.

More importantly, like other near accidents (eg the opening of the
rear doors over the junction in the dark at Hither Green when the
driver forgot the length of the train), it couldn't have happened if
they still had guards.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My congratulations to the RAIB for the quality of their investigation,
too. This is, I feel, the quiet revolution of recent years.

However, I feel that an obvious suggestion has been overlooked. Why
not paint the end walls of platform tunnels a distinctive colour to
indicate the normal direction of travel - or perhaps to mark ends from
which movements are not normally carried out? The driver would have
clocked he was heading the wrong way down the platform straight away.

Rob.

Yeah, I thought that. At a cost of a pot of paint and a few hours'
work per line. Could just be a coloured square or something.

Northern Line near collision
 

MIG wrote:
On 12 Mar, 20:44, wrote:

However, I feel that an obvious suggestion has been overlooked. Why
not paint the end walls of platform tunnels a distinctive colour to
indicate the normal direction of travel - or perhaps to mark ends
from which movements are not normally carried out? The driver would
have clocked he was heading the wrong way down the platform straight
away.

Yeah, I thought that. At a cost of a pot of paint and a few hours'
work per line. Could just be a coloured square or something.

A red disc with a white cross bar is more traditional.

Northern Line near collision
 

On 13 Mar, 12:46, "John Rowland"
wrote:
MIG wrote:
On 12 Mar, 20:44, wrote:

However, I feel that an obvious suggestion has been overlooked. Why
not paint the end walls of platform tunnels a distinctive colour to
indicate the normal direction of travel - or perhaps to mark ends
from which movements are not normally carried out? The driver would
have clocked he was heading the wrong way down the platform straight
away.

Yeah, I thought that. *At a cost of a pot of paint and a few hours'
work per line. *Could just be a coloured square or something.

A red disc with a white cross bar is more traditional.

Two pots of paint then.

Northern Line near collision
 

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008, MIG wrote:

On 13 Mar, 12:46, "John Rowland"
wrote:
MIG wrote:
On 12 Mar, 20:44, wrote:

However, I feel that an obvious suggestion has been overlooked. Why
not paint the end walls of platform tunnels a distinctive colour to
indicate the normal direction of travel - or perhaps to mark ends
from which movements are not normally carried out? The driver would
have clocked he was heading the wrong way down the platform straight
away.

Yeah, I thought that. *At a cost of a pot of paint and a few hours'
work per line. *Could just be a coloured square or something.

A red disc with a white cross bar is more traditional.

Two pots of paint then.

Or you write on the floor by the cab door 'NORTH' or 'SOUTH' as
appropriate. or 'HIGH BARNET' or 'MORDEN', whichever you like.

My idea was to mark the insides of tunnels in such a way that it's obvious
when you're running the wrong way, even if just for the first hundred
metres after a platform. A load of cat's eyes on the walls, which you'd
only see when going the wrong way, would do it. Or an equivalent of the
'no entry' sign that was on the tunnel wall, but not seen, that can be
seen in peripheral vision - maybe painting the 50 metres of tunnel at the
wrong end of the platform bright orange?

tom

--
The Web isn't hypertext, it's DECORATED DIRECTORIES! -- Ted Nelson