Bus hits tree
 

1 dead , 4 serious.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7410203.stm

Didn't side swipe bars get installed on all double deckers at the top
left for just this eventuality?

B2003

Bus hits tree
 

On May 20, 12:06 pm, Boltar wrote:
1 dead , 4 serious.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7410203.stm

Didn't side swipe bars get installed on all double deckers at the top
left for just this eventuality?

B2003

From the look of it, this one wasn't fitted. You don't see many with
them anyway. It must have been a pretty serious incident for there to
be a death and so many injuries.

Neill

Bus hits tree
 

Boltar gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

1 dead , 4 serious.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7410203.stm

Didn't side swipe bars get installed on all double deckers at the top
left for just this eventuality?

The pic shows that the roof pillars have bent, and the main roof itself
is damaged. The bars are just to push smaller branches out the way - they
won't protect against a trunk or solid branch strike. The driver's meant
to do that bit.

Bus hits tree
 

In message
, at
04:11:30 on Tue, 20 May 2008, Neill remarked:
1 dead , 4 serious.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7410203.stm

Didn't side swipe bars get installed on all double deckers at the top
left for just this eventuality?

B2003

From the look of it, this one wasn't fitted. You don't see many with
them anyway. It must have been a pretty serious incident for there to
be a death and so many injuries.

As it hit a tree (when buses normally pass by unaffected), and killed a
pedestrian, perhaps the bus had mounted the pavement?
--
Roland Perry

Bus hits tree
 

On May 20, 12:11 pm, Neill wrote:
From the look of it, this one wasn't fitted. You don't see many with
them anyway. It must have been a pretty serious incident for there to
be a death and so many injuries.

Yes , does look nasty. I don't know that road but since its central
london you'd think the trees would be regularly trimmed back so buses
don't hit them. Perhaps a branch came down or something. Unless the
driver mounted the pavement of course but it doesn't look like it.

B2003

Bus hits tree
 

Roland Perry gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

From the look of it, this one wasn't fitted. You don't see many with
them anyway. It must have been a pretty serious incident for there to be
a death and so many injuries.

As it hit a tree (when buses normally pass by unaffected), and killed a
pedestrian, perhaps the bus had mounted the pavement?

Do you know whether the bus actually hit the pedestrian? Or was she
killed by falling glass?

Bus hits tree
 

Adrian wrote:
The pic shows that the roof pillars have bent, and the main roof itself
is damaged. The bars are just to push smaller branches out the way - they
won't protect against a trunk or solid branch strike. The driver's meant
to do that bit.

There's a better(*) pic here;

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article....&in_page_id=34

(*) At time of writing (the BBC article is subject to updates).

ESB

Bus hits tree
 

On May 20, 12:36 pm, Ernst S Blofeld
wrote:
Adrian wrote:
The pic shows that the roof pillars have bent, and the main roof itself
is damaged. The bars are just to push smaller branches out the way - they
won't protect against a trunk or solid branch strike. The driver's meant
to do that bit.

There's a better(*) pic here;

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article....148564&in_page...

(*) At time of writing (the BBC article is subject to updates).

Thats a large chunk of tree. You'd think the driver could hardly fail
to spot it in the way though they seem not to spot low bridges either
so who knows. I wonder if the bus was on diversion.

B2003

Bus hits tree
 

On May 20, 12:44 pm, Boltar wrote:
On May 20, 12:36 pm, Ernst S Blofeld
wrote:

Adrian wrote:
The pic shows that the roof pillars have bent, and the main roof itself
is damaged. The bars are just to push smaller branches out the way - they
won't protect against a trunk or solid branch strike. The driver's meant
to do that bit.

There's a better(*) pic here;

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article....148564&in_page...

(*) At time of writing (the BBC article is subject to updates).

Thats a large chunk of tree. You'd think the driver could hardly fail
to spot it in the way though they seem not to spot low bridges either
so who knows. I wonder if the bus was on diversion.

B2003

Don't think it was on diversion. One branch is down and it loks like
another is hanging off. That's a tremedous amount of damage caused by
a branch of even a fullt grown plane tree. What speed was it going at
the time?

Neill

Bus hits tree
 

On May 20, 12:51 pm, Neill wrote:
Don't think it was on diversion. One branch is down and it loks like
another is hanging off. That's a tremedous amount of damage caused by
a branch of even a fullt grown plane tree. What speed was it going at
the time?

The tree? Not very fast I suspect. Though possibly the bus driver
missed a "plant crossing" sign further back up the road :)

B2003

Bus hits tree
 

Ernst S Blofeld wrote:
Adrian wrote:
The pic shows that the roof pillars have bent, and the main roof
itself is damaged. The bars are just to push smaller branches out
the way - they won't protect against a trunk or solid branch strike.
The driver's meant to do that bit.

There's a better(*) pic here;

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article....&in_page_id=34

The collision with the bus seems to have cut off one of the branches, which
raises the question of why that branch hadn't been removed already by the
highway authority, which is TfL Streets for Tower Bridge Road I think.

The practice of putting up a few little non-standard signs warning of trees
whose upper trunks or major branches encroach over the kerb line on bus
routes has always seemed to me to be inadequate and too casual. If it's a
branch, then cut it off. If the trunk itself is a danger, then either
narrow the carriageway or remove the tree. If the tree-huggers don't like
that, they can plant another tree, further from the kerb. Street trees look
nice and generally should be preserved, but not at the cost of bus
passegers' and pedestrians' lives.

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Bus hits tree
 

"Richard J." gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying:

The practice of putting up a few little non-standard signs warning of
trees whose upper trunks or major branches encroach over the kerb line
on bus routes has always seemed to me to be inadequate and too casual.
If it's a branch, then cut it off. If the trunk itself is a danger,
then either narrow the carriageway or remove the tree. If the
tree-huggers don't like that, they can plant another tree, further from
the kerb. Street trees look nice and generally should be preserved, but
not at the cost of bus passegers' and pedestrians' lives.

I wonder how many double-decker buses have passed that tree without
hitting it?

Since I suspect it is rather considerable, I think we can discount the
positioning of the tree itself - unless it moved recently.

Bus hits tree
 

On 20 May, 14:10, Adrian wrote:

I wonder how many double-decker buses have passed that tree without
hitting it?

Judging by the ones on the Kingsway, quite a few *do* hit them. It's
also quite uncomfortable as a passenger watching trees rush by only 6"
or so away.

The best solution for the Kingsway would, IMO, be bus lanes up the
middle and other traffic (with a height restriction, presumably) on
the left. Zebra crossings could be provided to access stops - this
kind of arrangement is very common in Germany, and works very well,
also having the benefit that buses don't bang over grids etc quite as
often.

Neil

Bus hits tree
 

On May 20, 3:12 pm, Neil Williams wrote:
The best solution for the Kingsway would, IMO, be bus lanes up the
middle and other traffic (with a height restriction, presumably) on
the left. Zebra crossings could be provided to access stops - this
kind of arrangement is very common in Germany, and works very well,
also having the benefit that buses don't bang over grids etc quite as
often.

Unless you put the bus stops in the middle of the road the bus will
constantly be swerving across the road to get to and from the bus
lane.

B2003

Bus hits tree
 

Neil Williams gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

I wonder how many double-decker buses have passed that tree without
hitting it?

Judging by the ones on the Kingsway, quite a few *do* hit them.

Many people dead or injured?

It's also quite uncomfortable as a passenger watching trees rush by
only 6" or so away.

shrug Don't sit in the very leftmost upper seats, then.

Bus hits tree
 

Adrian wrote:
"Richard J." gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

The practice of putting up a few little non-standard signs warning of
trees whose upper trunks or major branches encroach over the kerb
line on bus routes has always seemed to me to be inadequate and too
casual. If it's a branch, then cut it off. If the trunk itself is a
danger, then either narrow the carriageway or remove the tree. If
the tree-huggers don't like that, they can plant another tree,
further from the kerb. Street trees look nice and generally should
be preserved, but not at the cost of bus passegers' and pedestrians'
lives.

I wonder how many double-decker buses have passed that tree without
hitting it?

Since I suspect it is rather considerable, I think we can discount the
positioning of the tree itself - unless it moved recently.

Trees do move, in the sense that they grow, and sometimes they gradually
lean to one side. During this process the risk of a bus hitting it also
grows, so the fact that lots of buses passed it previously without hitting
it is not a reason to discount the position of the tree as a factor.

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Bus hits tree
 

Neil Williams wrote:

The best solution for the Kingsway would, IMO, be bus lanes up the
middle and other traffic (with a height restriction, presumably) on
the left. Zebra crossings could be provided to access stops - this
kind of arrangement is very common in Germany, and works very well,
also having the benefit that buses don't bang over grids etc quite as
often.


Those of us who are old enough remember something quite similar to that
in London - we called them trams. Not in Kingsway, however - they went
underground there! :-)

Peter Beale

Bus hits tree
 

"Richard J." gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying:

I wonder how many double-decker buses have passed that tree without
hitting it?

Since I suspect it is rather considerable, I think we can discount the
positioning of the tree itself - unless it moved recently.

Trees do move, in the sense that they grow, and sometimes they gradually
lean to one side. During this process the risk of a bus hitting it also
grows, so the fact that lots of buses passed it previously without
hitting it is not a reason to discount the position of the tree as a
factor.

How rapidly would it'd have to move in order to do that much damage to a
bus following a previously safe trajectory?

Bus hits tree
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message
, at
04:11:30 on Tue, 20 May 2008, Neill remarked:
1 dead , 4 serious.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7410203.stm

Didn't side swipe bars get installed on all double deckers at the top
left for just this eventuality?

B2003

From the look of it, this one wasn't fitted. You don't see many with
them anyway. It must have been a pretty serious incident for there to
be a death and so many injuries.

As it hit a tree (when buses normally pass by unaffected), and killed a
pedestrian, perhaps the bus had mounted the pavement?
--
Roland Perry
Considering the appalling standard of bus driving in London these days why
doesn't this surprise me in the least. Peter Hendy sure has some explaining
to do.

Kevin

Bus hits tree
 

"Boltar" wrote in message
...

Unless you put the bus stops in the middle of the road the bus will
constantly be swerving across the road to get to and from the bus
lane.

Which part of ...
Zebra crossings could be provided to access stops - this
kind of arrangement is very common in Germany, and works very well.
....did you not understand?
--
Cheers, Steve.
Change jealous to sad to reply.

Bus hits tree
 

Neil Williams wrote:
On 20 May, 14:10, Adrian wrote:

I wonder how many double-decker buses have passed that tree without
hitting it?

Judging by the ones on the Kingsway, quite a few *do* hit them. It's
also quite uncomfortable as a passenger watching trees rush by only 6"
or so away.

The best solution for the Kingsway would, IMO, be bus lanes up the
middle and other traffic (with a height restriction, presumably) on
the left. Zebra crossings could be provided to access stops - this
kind of arrangement is very common in Germany, and works very well,
also having the benefit that buses don't bang over grids etc quite as
often.

Do the Germans have laws to shoot motorists passing stopped buses, or
signs saying it is not allowed? I think some places do.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Bus hits tree
 

In message , at 18:29:23 on
Tue, 20 May 2008, Zen83237 remarked:
As it hit a tree (when buses normally pass by unaffected), and killed a
pedestrian, perhaps the bus had mounted the pavement?

Considering the appalling standard of bus driving in London these days why
doesn't this surprise me in the least.

For reasons I won't bore you with, I walked past the site at lunchtime.
The most amazing thing is perhaps the number of policemen apparently
required to keep people/traffic away.

The road is wider than it looks in most of the news photos, and lined
with trees.

Picture 18 here is a good likeness:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...316580,00.html

Trees are just coming into leaf at the moment, and it's possible a
branch was weighed down sufficiently to become a hazard. Two
medium-sized branches seem to have been broken off.

It seems that the pedestrian was been crushed in a rather freak way by a
broken-off branch. The top corner of the bus is very badly caved in, and
I don't think one of the standard "bull bars" that are fitted to some
buses there would have been adequate protection for those inside.
--
Roland Perry

Bus hits tree
 

On 20 May, 18:44, "Steve Dulieu"
wrote:
Which part of ...
Zebra crossings could be provided to access stops - this
kind of arrangement is very common in Germany, and works very well.

Yeah ok , I didn't read it properly. I'm not sure having a bus stopped
in the outer lane of a dual carraigeway with lots of passengers
milling around is the safest way of doing things. Just because its
done in germany doesn't mean its a good idea over here given the
different attitude of pedestrians crossing roads.

B2003

Bus hits tree
 

Adrian wrote:
"Richard J." gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

I wonder how many double-decker buses have passed that tree without
hitting it?

Since I suspect it is rather considerable, I think we can discount
the positioning of the tree itself - unless it moved recently.

Trees do move, in the sense that they grow, and sometimes they
gradually lean to one side. During this process the risk of a bus
hitting it also grows, so the fact that lots of buses passed it
previously without hitting it is not a reason to discount the
position of the tree as a factor.

How rapidly would it'd have to move in order to do that much damage
to a bus following a previously safe trajectory?

There are many trees in London which overhang the kerb, or which would hit a
bus driven very close to the kerb because of the camber of the road surface.
Normal downwards movement as the foliage grows in spring could be enough to
make contact with a bus driven unusually close to the kerb on a trajectory
which was previosly safe.

The amount of damage caused to the bus, and the fatal injuries suffered by
the unfortunate pedestrian, seem to have arisen from the offending branch
becoming caught up in the bus instead of being brushed aside, possibly
entangled in the protective rail in front of the upper deck window, which
one photo shows as broken.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Bus hits tree
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 18:29:23 on
Tue, 20 May 2008, Zen83237 remarked:
As it hit a tree (when buses normally pass by unaffected), and
killed a pedestrian, perhaps the bus had mounted the pavement?

Considering the appalling standard of bus driving in London these
days why doesn't this surprise me in the least.

For reasons I won't bore you with, I walked past the site at
lunchtime. The most amazing thing is perhaps the number of policemen
apparently required to keep people/traffic away.

The road is wider than it looks in most of the news photos, and lined
with trees.

Picture 18 here is a good likeness:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...316580,00.html

Trees are just coming into leaf at the moment, and it's possible a
branch was weighed down sufficiently to become a hazard. Two
medium-sized branches seem to have been broken off.

It's notable that the damage to the bus looks worse at destination blind
level or just above than at the corner of the roof. Did you manage to see
the tree itself, which hasn't featured in any of the photos I've seen? If
so, did it appear to be overhanging the carriageway, especially where the
branches were torn off?
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Bus hits tree
 

Arthur Figgis wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:
On 20 May, 14:10, Adrian wrote:

I wonder how many double-decker buses have passed that tree without
hitting it?

Judging by the ones on the Kingsway, quite a few *do* hit them. It's
also quite uncomfortable as a passenger watching trees rush by only
6" or so away.

The best solution for the Kingsway would, IMO, be bus lanes up the
middle and other traffic (with a height restriction, presumably) on
the left. Zebra crossings could be provided to access stops - this
kind of arrangement is very common in Germany, and works very well,
also having the benefit that buses don't bang over grids etc quite as
often.

Do the Germans have laws to shoot motorists passing stopped buses, or
signs saying it is not allowed? I think some places do.

He's talking about a triple carriageway. The central carriageway is two-way
for buses. The bus stops are on the reservations.

Bus hits tree
 

In message , at 22:17:01
on Tue, 20 May 2008, Richard J. remarked:
Picture 18 here is a good likeness:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...316580,00.html

Trees are just coming into leaf at the moment, and it's possible a
branch was weighed down sufficiently to become a hazard. Two
medium-sized branches seem to have been broken off.

It's notable that the damage to the bus looks worse at destination blind
level or just above than at the corner of the roof. Did you manage to see
the tree itself, which hasn't featured in any of the photos I've seen? If
so, did it appear to be overhanging the carriageway, especially where the
branches were torn off?

You can see the tree clearly in picture 13, as well as the picture 18 I
mentioned before. There are many similar trees at intervals all along
the street. Several of the pictures, like number 11, show how trees
dominate the skyline along there.
--
Roland Perry

Bus hits tree
 

On May 21, 6:01 am, Roland Perry wrote:
You can see the tree clearly in picture 13, as well as the picture 18 I
mentioned before. There are many similar trees at intervals all along
the street. Several of the pictures, like number 11, show how trees
dominate the skyline along there.

According to lots of witnesses the tree apparently fell down in front
of the bus while it was driving along. Monumental bad luck.

B2003

Bus hits tree
 

Boltar wrote:
On May 21, 6:01 am, Roland Perry wrote:
You can see the tree clearly in picture 13, as well as the picture
18 I mentioned before. There are many similar trees at intervals all
along the street. Several of the pictures, like number 11, show how
trees dominate the skyline along there.

According to lots of witnesses the tree apparently fell down in front
of the bus while it was driving along. Monumental bad luck.

Trees don't fall in good weather. I suspect the branch got caught between
the bus and the tree-protection rail and the branch/tree was pulled over by
the bus. This may lead to all such rails being replaced by a solid
protruberence.

Bus hits tree
 

On May 21, 9:41 am, "John Rowland"
wrote:
Trees don't fall in good weather. I suspect the branch got caught between
the bus and the tree-protection rail and the branch/tree was pulled over by
the bus. This may lead to all such rails being replaced by a solid
protruberence.

If that had happened the bus would have already partially passed
underneath when it started pulling the branch down which then surely
would have fallen onto the roof , not clobbered the front?

B2003

Bus hits tree
 

In message
, at
01:19:10 on Wed, 21 May 2008, Boltar remarked:
You can see the tree clearly in picture 13, as well as the picture 18 I
mentioned before. There are many similar trees at intervals all along
the street. Several of the pictures, like number 11, show how trees
dominate the skyline along there.

According to lots of witnesses the tree apparently fell down in front
of the bus while it was driving along.

A tree didn't fall down - they are very big. What must have happened is
a branch breaking off. A broken off branch (about three inches in
diameter) can be clearly seen in the road. Most of the pictures show it
near the front offside of the bus, but by the time I arrived it had been
moved to behind the bus.
--
Roland Perry

Bus hits tree
 

In message
, at
01:52:11 on Wed, 21 May 2008, Boltar remarked:
Trees don't fall in good weather. I suspect the branch got caught between
the bus and the tree-protection rail and the branch/tree was pulled over

Not the whole tree, just a branch.

by the bus. This may lead to all such rails being replaced by a solid
protruberence.

If that had happened the bus would have already partially passed
underneath when it started pulling the branch down which then surely
would have fallen onto the roof , not clobbered the front?

One bus (or other high vehicle) could have dislodged it, and a bus
behind hit it. This is pure speculation, trying to fit the visible
evidence to the laws of physics.
--
Roland Perry

Bus hits tree
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
22:17:01 on Tue, 20 May 2008, Richard J.
remarked:
Picture 18 here is a good likeness:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...316580,00.html

Trees are just coming into leaf at the moment, and it's possible a
branch was weighed down sufficiently to become a hazard. Two
medium-sized branches seem to have been broken off.

It's notable that the damage to the bus looks worse at destination
blind level or just above than at the corner of the roof. Did you
manage to see the tree itself, which hasn't featured in any of the
photos I've seen? If so, did it appear to be overhanging the
carriageway, especially where the branches were torn off?

You can see the tree clearly in picture 13, as well as the picture 18
I mentioned before. There are many similar trees at intervals all
along the street.

I think the tree in pictures 13 and 18 is the one beyond the tree that the
bus hit. The one in the photo is right next to the bus, whereas reports of
the driver struggling to control the vehicle and of the delay in noticing
the pedestrian under the tree suggest that the bus ran on for some distance
before stopping.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Bus hits tree
 

In message , at 10:13:43
on Wed, 21 May 2008, Richard J. remarked:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...316580,00.html

Trees are just coming into leaf at the moment, and it's possible a
branch was weighed down sufficiently to become a hazard. Two
medium-sized branches seem to have been broken off.

It's notable that the damage to the bus looks worse at destination
blind level or just above than at the corner of the roof. Did you
manage to see the tree itself, which hasn't featured in any of the
photos I've seen? If so, did it appear to be overhanging the
carriageway, especially where the branches were torn off?

You can see the tree clearly in picture 13, as well as the picture 18
I mentioned before. There are many similar trees at intervals all
along the street.

I think the tree in pictures 13 and 18 is the one beyond the tree that the
bus hit. The one in the photo is right next to the bus, whereas reports of
the driver struggling to control the vehicle and of the delay in noticing
the pedestrian under the tree suggest that the bus ran on for some distance
before stopping.

There are two branches 'down' I believe. Look at picture 20 - one behind
the bus and one in front. I agree they many have come from a tree behind
the bus, but all the trees are very similar, with branched sticking
fundamentally "upwards", rather than "down or sideways".
--
Roland Perry

Bus hits tree
 

"Boltar" wrote in message
...
On May 21, 6:01 am, Roland Perry wrote:
You can see the tree clearly in picture 13, as well as the picture 18 I
mentioned before. There are many similar trees at intervals all along
the street. Several of the pictures, like number 11, show how trees
dominate the skyline along there.

According to lots of witnesses the tree apparently fell down in front
of the bus while it was driving along. Monumental bad luck.

B2003

Given how anal councils are about the safety of hanging baskets can we now
expect TfL to cut down every tree in London on the side of a road. I am not
aware of a hanging basket killing anybody, on the other hand...

Kevin

Bus hits tree
 

In message , John Rowland
writes

I suspect the branch got caught between the bus and the tree-protection
rail and the branch/tree was pulled over by the bus.

I saw a picture in one of the free papers today (probably Metro) that
clearly shows part of a branch wedged in exactly that position, stuck
between the nearside protection rail and the body of the bus. It looked
very much like the other half of the branch that was pictured on the
roadway.

--
Paul Terry