Tom Anderson wrote in uk.transport.london on Tue, 27 May 2008 15:21:39
+0100 .li:

"Certified as free and fair by international observers" might be a bit
strong. Just going on what's in wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_chavez

It seems he's better than SLORC, but probably not a lot better, if any,
than Mugabe.

The wikipedia article is so full of cross-references and amendments
that whatever points the originators (pro and anti Chavez) were trying
to make, the foreground has gone underground due to the weight of the
background.

So, if you could elucidate, it might help?

Dave

On Tue, 27 May 2008, Dave Hillam wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote in uk.transport.london on Tue, 27 May 2008 15:21:39
+0100 .li:

"Certified as free and fair by international observers" might be a bit
strong. Just going on what's in wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_chavez

It seems he's better than SLORC, but probably not a lot better, if any,
than Mugabe.

The wikipedia article is so full of cross-references and amendments
that whatever points the originators (pro and anti Chavez) were trying
to make, the foreground has gone underground due to the weight of the
background.

So, if you could elucidate, it might help?

On his election in 2000:

"General elections were held on July 30, 2000. Chavez's coalition garnered
two-thirds of seats in the National Assembly while Chavez was reelected
with 60% of the votes. The Carter Center monitored the election; their
report stated that, due to lack of transparency, Consejo Nacional
Electoral (CNE; "National Electoral Council") partiality, and political
pressure from the Chavez government that resulted in early elections, it
was unable to validate the official CNE results.[32] However, they
concluded that the presidential election legitimately expressed the will
of the people.[33]"

So, dodgy, but not totally dodgy. He's a demagogue, who is genuinely quite
popular, with undue influence over the electoral machinery, so similar to
Mugabe. Or Bush, for that matter.

In Mugabe's case, there's also organised violence against the opposition,
which i'm not aware of in Venezuela. He scores against Robbo on that
count.

The recall vote against him in 2004:

"The recall vote itself was held on August 15, 2004. A record number of
voters turned out to defeat the recall attempt with a 59% "no"
vote.[54][55] The election was overseen by the Carter Center and the
Organization of American States, and was certified by them as fair and
open.[56] European Union observers did not attend, saying too many
restrictions had been placed on their participation by the
government.[57]"

So probably not dodgy. There were some criticisms of that, but none
totally credible, that i can see.

Interestingly:

"President Chavez initiated a program to provide cheaper heating fuel for
low income families in several areas of the United States. The program was
expanded in September 2006 to include four of New York City's five
boroughs, earmarking 25 million gallons of fuel for low-income New York
residents at 40% off the wholesale market price. That quantity provides
sufficient fuel to heat 70,000 apartments, covering 200,000 New Yorkers,
for the entire winter. Chavez offered heating oil to poor, remote villages
in Alaska, though many reportedly refused the offer despite economic
hardship.[83]"

tom

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