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Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
Public transport has always been awful; and over the past couple of years
I've noticed that more and more often I'm squashed inside a bus or train, with hardly enough room to breathe, because the company decided to cancel earlier buses or trains without notice, and without making any alternative arrangements. Because I believe that this gross-overcrowding is a serious risk to public health and safety, I've created a petition at http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/sardines/ asking for action to be taken to stop this gross-overcrowding. Therefore, if anyone else here shares my concerns, please co-sign the petition, and if possible, please pass the message along to a few friends. Jonathan |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
On 19 Jul, 02:28, "Jonathan" wrote:
Public transport has always been awful; and over the past couple of years I've noticed that more and more often I'm squashed inside a bus or train, with hardly enough room to breathe, because the company decided to cancel earlier buses or trains without notice, and without making any alternative arrangements. If there was a decent tube system in south london some of the pressure would be taken off the overground trains. But the amount of overground lines has always been used as an excuse for not further extending the tube south of the river rather than thinking the services could complement each other. The its-difficult-to-tunnel excuse no longer holds water in the 21st century so I guess the only obstacle now would be money as it ever was - we have tight fisted victorians to thank for the piddly mainline loading gauge meaning we can't have double deck trains , and the frankly farcical loading gauge on the deep level tube lines. B2003 |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
"Jonathan" wrote in message ... Public transport has always been awful; and over the past couple of years I've noticed that more and more often I'm squashed inside a bus or train, with hardly enough room to breathe, because the company decided to cancel earlier buses or trains without notice, and without making any alternative arrangements. Because I believe that this gross-overcrowding is a serious risk to public health and safety, I've created a petition at http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/sardines/ asking for action to be taken to stop this gross-overcrowding. Therefore, if anyone else here shares my concerns, please co-sign the petition, and if possible, please pass the message along to a few friends. Jonathan Good idea. I've always thought there should be an active campaign to discourage people who don't have to travel in rush hour from using public transport at peak times. Marķa |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
On 19 Jul, 13:39, "Maria" wrote:
Good idea. *I've always thought there should be an active campaign to discourage people who don't have to travel in rush hour from using public transport at peak times. Perhaps they could charge higher fares? U -- http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/ A blog about transport projects in London |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
In message
, at 05:46:58 on Sat, 19 Jul 2008, Mr Thant remarked: I've always thought there should be an active campaign to discourage people who don't have to travel in rush hour from using public transport at peak times. Perhaps they could charge higher fares? Perversely, they charge habitual rush-hour travellers lower fares. -- Roland Perry |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
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Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:39:14 +0100, "Maria"
wrote this gibberish: "Jonathan" wrote in message .. . Public transport has always been awful; and over the past couple of years I've noticed that more and more often I'm squashed inside a bus or train, with hardly enough room to breathe, because the company decided to cancel earlier buses or trains without notice, and without making any alternative arrangements. Because I believe that this gross-overcrowding is a serious risk to public health and safety, I've created a petition at http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/sardines/ asking for action to be taken to stop this gross-overcrowding. Therefore, if anyone else here shares my concerns, please co-sign the petition, and if possible, please pass the message along to a few friends. Jonathan Good idea. I've always thought there should be an active campaign to discourage people who don't have to travel in rush hour from using public transport at peak times. Marķa I go to great lengths to avoid moving anywhere at peak times, I pity the regular commuters who deal with the sheer unpleasantness of public transport from the handful of times I've found myself with little choice to. the horror... the horror...... the horror......... -- Mark Varley www.MarkVarleyPhoto.co.uk www.TwistedPhotography.co.uk London, England. |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
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Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
"Maria" wrote in message ... "Jonathan" wrote in message ... Public transport has always been awful; and over the past couple of years I've noticed that more and more often I'm squashed inside a bus or train, with hardly enough room to breathe, because the company decided to cancel earlier buses or trains without notice, and without making any alternative arrangements. Because I believe that this gross-overcrowding is a serious risk to public health and safety, I've created a petition at http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/sardines/ asking for action to be taken to stop this gross-overcrowding. Therefore, if anyone else here shares my concerns, please co-sign the petition, and if possible, please pass the message along to a few friends. Jonathan Good idea. I've always thought there should be an active campaign to discourage people who don't have to travel in rush hour from using public transport at peak times. But we do have this policy. It's achieved by charging much higher fares in the peak. (Or it was, until the Oyster virus came along) tim |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:04:17 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote: Perversely, they charge habitual rush-hour travellers lower fares. Abolishing this suddenly would probably cause economic meltdown in London and the South East (and by extension the rest of the UK), though. While I agree that lots of commuting is not desirable, it needs to be dealt with the other way, such as a phased-in legal requirement to allow (or even mandate) home working for employees (such as office workers, call centre workers etc) where it is feasible with modern-day technology. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
"Neil Williams" wrote in message ... On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:04:17 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: Perversely, they charge habitual rush-hour travellers lower fares. Abolishing this suddenly would probably cause economic meltdown in London and the South East (and by extension the rest of the UK), though. While I agree that lots of commuting is not desirable, it needs to be dealt with the other way, such as a phased-in legal requirement to allow (or even mandate) home working for employees (such as office workers, call centre workers etc) where it is feasible with modern-day technology. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. This would be a good approach, too. Speaking for myself, I believe I cd work two days a week from home. I sometimes work one but I feel guilty about asking! Ridiculous, I know. Marķa |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
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Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
"Neil Williams" wrote in message ... While I agree that lots of commuting is not desirable, it needs to be dealt with the other way, such as a phased-in legal requirement to allow (or even mandate) home working for employees (such as office workers, call centre workers etc) where it is feasible with modern-day technology. With the UK xDSL market the way it is ? I am someone who has the freedom to 'work where I want' when I don't *need* to be in the office so I will either stay at home, or if I've meetings in town will use another office somewhere. If we assume everyone VPN's into a corporate network and that a large number of the masses are on a 'normal' ADSL package then the max they will ever see is 56Kbit/sec - not much use for a great deal - 1 VoIP call and a that's about it. I'd love for everyone to stay at home my trip to work would be so much better for it! If everyone can avoid LST on a Monday between 09:00-10:00 that's great for me and a Friday between 16:00-17:00. Any day it's raining too. There is a harsh way to address the problem to a certain extent; Extend J4 (I think) to cover in-boundary tickets in the evening rush (as NEAR tried to make you believe anyway last year) Enforce the luggage (Bigger than 1x1m) rule Enforce the bike rule at at intermediate stations Bring back the 'on time train get the road' rule (In ARS areas) Ban children from taking up seats Ban non folding push chairs Ban any 'group' travel (like the 20 primary school kids we often pick up with teachers) Earlier first trains with clock face time tabling (I know its not that simple) Longer units/sets (Again not easy) Scrap 1st Class on all local peek services Line and journey (to me anyway) specific bits; ECML/Hertford Loop to KGX/ZMG Let gold card holders use NXEC services south of PBO (Unless its already allowed - but I doubt it) All Services to run to ZMG (as now in the peeks) but all day Re time table the KGX terminators for matching ZMG connections (both-ways) Southbury Loop/ENF/CHI Reverse the London Fields/Cambridge Heath stopping pattern (Where not all trains call at either, or 1 station) Stop ARS holding off for a late running airport Stop ARS holding off for a late CHI Re tighten the time table on the ENF leg to stop long dwell times at SVS and HAC Move the airports off Bethnal Green West Jn. onto the Mains rather then the Suburban's Semi fast workings ENF-BHK-EDR-SVS-HAC-LST While pricing us off the network won't work (as people will always need to get into/from the city in the peeks) I don't know what can be done. Everything come back to money (firstly) and then paths. We already know there is likely to be a bigish increase in fares for 2009 anyway so what are people supposed to do. As things are at the moment I know people who pay less to drive into town for work rather then a train. (Including CC Charge, Parking, and fuel) It also takes them about the same time but with the advantage when the trains break they can still get home! Just my 2p worth as usual... |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
On 20 Jul 2008 15:59:39 GMT, Adrian wrote:
The broadband infrastructure - as it is currently - just wouldn't cope. So invest in it in preference to investing in commuter transport infrastructure. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 17:13:10 +0100, "Q" ..@.. wrote:
While pricing us off the network won't work (as people will always need to get into/from the city in the peeks) *Some* people will. Probably not even half of those who currently do, however. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
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Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
In message , at 15:40:32 on Sun,
20 Jul 2008, Neil Williams remarked: On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:04:17 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: Perversely, they charge habitual rush-hour travellers lower fares. Abolishing this suddenly would probably cause economic meltdown in London and the South East (and by extension the rest of the UK), though. Maybe so. If the chancellor's statement this weekend can be taken at face value [cough splutter] then in the absence of future investment in railways, we must either stem the demand by pricing, or hope that mass unemployment caused by the underlying economic ills causes less commuting. Not that we necessarily want to wish unemployment on those who are *gainfully* employed. While I agree that lots of commuting is not desirable, it needs to be dealt with the other way, such as a phased-in legal requirement to allow (or even mandate) home working for employees (such as office workers, call centre workers etc) where it is feasible with modern-day technology. What you can't replicate with today's technology is the human interaction that makes most white-collar workplaces function effectively. -- Roland Perry |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
On 19 Jul, 21:48, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article , () wrote: The its-difficult-to-tunnel excuse no longer holds water in the 21st century So we have new geology in the 21st century? What's changed pray? Tunnelling technology , what do you think? The channel tunnel was built through dozens of miles of water bearing chalk under the sea so I don't think the "its nasty chalk not clay" really cuts it any more as an excuse not to build tunnels in south london. B2003 |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
It still doesn't make sense to build Tube lines in South London though, because that would involve expensive wheelchair-accessible stations which would leave the existing surface stations underused or closed. I think it I don't follow your reasoning. Why would wheelchair access in new tube stations force the closure of overground stations? And a couple of new tube lines is hardly going to have all the commuters from the whole of south london abandoning southern region in droves and more than the northern line in clapham means no one uses clapham junction. It would just take the pressure off the lines a bit. would be cheaper to build underground express lines from the edge of London - say from east of Esher to south of Tottenham Hale via new deep platforms at Kingston, Earls Court/West Brompton, Bond Street, and Euston/Kings Cross ( and possibly four-track the line from Tottenham Hale to Cheshunt) for through dual-voltage services from Portsmouth etc to Stansted etc. - and then hand the existing surface lines to LOROL and flood them with 6-30 tph metro services. Isn't that what thameslink is supposed to be in theory , albeit to luton and gatwick airports not stansted? B2003 |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
Neil Williams wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:04:17 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: Perversely, they charge habitual rush-hour travellers lower fares. Perhaps a half-way house would be to remove the discount for rail commuters continuing their journeys from London termini by zone 1 tube. The whole of zone 1 is within easy cycling distance of all termini, and zone 1 tube is the only area that needs new lines to increase capacity. You would of course need lots of secure cycle parking at the termini. For mainline rail, an adjustment to the financial rules is needed so that they can run at line and platform capacity throughout the rush hour. This needs more rolling stock, spending more of its time idle - but that means it should last longer, reducing the extra cost. Abolishing this suddenly would probably cause economic meltdown in London and the South East (and by extension the rest of the UK), though. Suddenly, yes. In the state sector at least, a job swap programme could help people reduce their commutes by working closer to home. Colin McKenzie -- No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as walking. Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org. |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
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Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
On 20 Jul 2008 16:37:44 GMT, Adrian wrote:
(Neil Williams) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: The broadband infrastructure - as it is currently - just wouldn't cope. So invest in it in preference to investing in commuter transport infrastructure. Clueless. Utterly clueless... Would you care to elaborate as to why you think it is not sensible rather than just rudely dismissing out of hand without any kind of reasoned argument? Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:48:04 +0100, Colin McKenzie
wrote: Perhaps a half-way house would be to remove the discount for rail commuters continuing their journeys from London termini by zone 1 tube. Or to offer a cheaper "Travelcard" option that included only bus travel? There's tons of capacity in almost all of the bus network in the peaks, and where there isn't it's hugely cheaper to provide more than it is on rail. The whole of zone 1 is within easy cycling distance of all termini That it is, but not all of us (even those of us who do cycle regularly in other places and do enjoy it) like the idea of cycling in London as a good stress-free way to start the day. (Nor, to be fair, is a Tube journey, which is why my morning journey involves a bus and a walk down the South Bank instead). Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
On Jul 20, 9:24*pm, wrote:
It still doesn't make sense to build Tube lines in South London though, because that would involve expensive wheelchair-accessible stations which would leave the existing surface stations underused or closed. I think it I don't follow your reasoning. Why would wheelchair access in new tube stations force the closure of overground stations? And a couple of new tube lines is hardly going to have all the commuters from the whole of south london abandoning southern region in droves and more than the northern line in clapham means no one uses clapham junction. It would just take the pressure off *the lines a bit. No one in Clapham would use National Rail at Clapham Junction because it is too far away. Clapham Junction and Clapham Common (for example) stations have different catchment zones. A better example would be to compare Clapham North and Clapham High Street, which do serve the same area. I think that you will find that the Northern line is much busier than the National Rail service here, as it is at Brixton, where the Victoria is much busier than National Rail. Maybe not enough to close the National Rail stations, but enough to mean it is not worthwhile lengthening trains etc. |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
On Jul 20, 11:25 pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article , () wrote: On 19 Jul, 21:48, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote: In article , () wrote: The its-difficult-to-tunnel excuse no longer holds water in the 21st century So we have new geology in the 21st century? What's changed pray? Tunnelling technology , what do you think? The channel tunnel was built through dozens of miles of water bearing chalk under the sea so I don't think the "its nasty chalk not clay" really cuts it any more as an excuse not to build tunnels in south london. Huh? Chalk has pretty similar tunnelling characteristics to clay. It's the sand in south London that's hopeless. Look at how they built the JLE. Chalk , sand , whatever. Point is theres nothing that can't be tunnelled through now as long as they money is available. If they think sand is an issue they should go ask the Egyptions how they built the cairo metro. B2003 |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
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Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
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Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
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Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
"MarkVarley - MVP" wrote in message ... On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:39:14 +0100, "Maria" wrote this gibberish: "Jonathan" wrote in message . .. Public transport has always been awful; and over the past couple of years I've noticed that more and more often I'm squashed inside a bus or train, with hardly enough room to breathe, because the company decided to cancel earlier buses or trains without notice, and without making any alternative arrangements. Because I believe that this gross-overcrowding is a serious risk to public health and safety, I've created a petition at http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/sardines/ asking for action to be taken to stop this gross-overcrowding. Therefore, if anyone else here shares my concerns, please co-sign the petition, and if possible, please pass the message along to a few friends. Jonathan Good idea. I've always thought there should be an active campaign to discourage people who don't have to travel in rush hour from using public transport at peak times. Marķa I go to great lengths to avoid moving anywhere at peak times, I pity the regular commuters who deal with the sheer unpleasantness of public transport from the handful of times I've found myself with little choice to. the horror... the horror...... the horror......... Exactly my feelings, hence why I took a sizeable pay cut and moved to somewhere nice with little traffic, rather than living in the London suburbs (Highgate, Northolt, then Uxbridge), working in the City and commuting on the bus and tube. AWFUL experience. Never again. Mike P |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
"tim.." wrote in message
"Maria" wrote in message ... Good idea. I've always thought there should be an active campaign to discourage people who don't have to travel in rush hour from using public transport at peak times. But we do have this policy. It's achieved by charging much higher fares in the peak. (Or it was, until the Oyster virus came along) Well, Oyster does encourage journeys to start before 7am, after 7pm and after 9:30am. I suppose it could have a more complicated structure that specifically raised zone 1 prices in the peaks, but even fewer people would understand it then. |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
On Jul 21, 2:14 pm, "Recliner" wrote:
Well, Oyster does encourage journeys to start before 7am, after 7pm and after 9:30am. If "encourage" is a euphamism for blatantly ripping people off during morning peak hours then yes. Though this has been going on for years. Presumably its a nice little money spinner screwing extra cash out of tourists and other people without season tickets. Notice how there are no big signs up warning people of the extra cost in the mornings. Poor old Pierre arrives on the early morning eurostar and then gets taken for another ride by LUL before he's even stepped on a train without even knowing it. B2003 |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:14:32 +0100, "Recliner"
wrote: Well, Oyster does encourage journeys to start before 7am, after 7pm and after 9:30am. I suppose it could have a more complicated structure that specifically raised zone 1 prices in the peaks, but even fewer people would understand it then. And the nature of Oyster, especially with PAYG, distracts you away from the price anyway, just like post-payment of electricity bills[1] and the likes. [1] I've long thought that one of the best ways to reduce home electricity consumption (to benefit the environment) would be to mandate the use of pre-payment card meters as the only method of payment. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
wrote in message ... On 19 Jul, 02:28, "Jonathan" wrote: Public transport has always been awful; and over the past couple of years I've noticed that more and more often I'm squashed inside a bus or train, with hardly enough room to breathe, because the company decided to cancel earlier buses or trains without notice, and without making any alternative arrangements. If there was a decent tube system in south london some of the pressure would be taken off the overground trains. But the amount of overground lines has always been used as an excuse for not further extending the tube south of the river rather than thinking the services could complement each other. The its-difficult-to-tunnel excuse no longer holds water in the 21st century so I guess the only obstacle now would be money as it ever was - we have tight fisted victorians to thank for the piddly mainline loading gauge meaning we can't have double deck trains , and the frankly farcical loading gauge on the deep level tube lines. B2003 Lots of people I've spoken to about the petition have made lots of seemingly excellent suggestions as to how public transport might be improved in the long term. But this misses the point of the petition, which is that transport operating companies seem to routinely pull trains, buses and tubes out of service, without putting any sort of substitute in place. The net result being that drivers of services after large gaps attempt to solve the problem of the backlog of passengers by cramming as many people into vehicles as possible. Ultimately, changes to the system will have to be made, and someone will have to spend some money upgrading the transport system we have at present. But even if money is spent, unless transport operating companies stop pulling vehicles out of service without notice and without providing a substitute service, then passengers will continue to be frequently jam-packed into carriages to a point where they almost cannot breathe, and cannot exit without extreme difficulty. This is the point of the petition. I believe that that sort of gross-overcrowding situation is dangerous, and will result in people being badly hurt or possibly even killed at some point in the future. -- Jonathan http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/sardines/ |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:46:23 +0100, "Jonathan" wrote:
I believe that that sort of gross-overcrowding situation is dangerous, and will result in people being badly hurt or possibly even killed at some point in the future. As some have pointed out, and I will as well, it is unpleasant but not really dangerous. It is true that if something happened to the vehicle concerned more people would be killed than otherwise, but that's just because the vehicle *contains* more people. I don't believe a given person in a train carriage containing 150 in a crush-load would be any more at risk of being killed in such an accident than if it contained 70 all in seats. Indeed, they might be a bit safer, because the crush-load might prevent them being thrown the length of the train in a collision. There is the issue of those who can't stand for long or can't handle the high temperatures you might get, but the best option for them if they know that is to get off and wait for the next one. With your suggestion, realistically that's what they'd end up having to do anyway. Now, I don't think crush-loading is something that should be happening day-to-day as a matter of course, and there are some routes where it is that should be sorted out with more capacity. (There are some such bus routes in Central London which really should get a few more buses per hour taken from other very quiet routes, for instance). But if it is necessary to clear disruption, it isn't harmful and it happens the world over. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:46:23 +0100, "Jonathan" wrote:
wrote in message ... On 19 Jul, 02:28, "Jonathan" wrote: Public transport has always been awful; and over the past couple of years I've noticed that more and more often I'm squashed inside a bus or train, with hardly enough room to breathe, because the company decided to cancel earlier buses or trains without notice, and without making any alternative arrangements. If there was a decent tube system in south london some of the pressure would be taken off the overground trains. But the amount of overground lines has always been used as an excuse for not further extending the tube south of the river rather than thinking the services could complement each other. The its-difficult-to-tunnel excuse no longer holds water in the 21st century so I guess the only obstacle now would be money as it ever was - we have tight fisted victorians to thank for the piddly mainline loading gauge meaning we can't have double deck trains , and the frankly farcical loading gauge on the deep level tube lines. B2003 Lots of people I've spoken to about the petition have made lots of seemingly excellent suggestions as to how public transport might be improved in the long term. So what? In almost every case good and improved public transport will create a surge in demand on not only the new service but on parts of the network that feed it. Has the Jubilee Line Extension really eased congestion or has it opened up new corridors and journey possibilities that didn't exist before? Will London Overground and the ELLX create sublime travelling conditions for orbital journeys for decades or will there be a huge surge in demand within 18-24 months of it opening? I'd suggest it would be latter. But this misses the point of the petition, which is that transport operating companies seem to routinely pull trains, buses and tubes out of service, without putting any sort of substitute in place. The net result being that drivers of services after large gaps attempt to solve the problem of the backlog of passengers by cramming as many people into vehicles as possible. Sorry but things go wrong for a whole pile of legitimate reasons and sometimes due to complete cock ups. This happens to Tesco and Homebase just like it happens to bus and rail companies. The consequence in retail is that you can't buy what you want, you can't pay using your preferred method of payment or else the frozen chicken is a strange shade of green and is climbing out of the freezer. Nonetheless there isn't a contingency range of stock or a secondary debit card payment system. You go somewhere else or pay by cash. Only in the chicken example might you be offered some compensation and a replacement - due to legal issues and the desire to maintain a good corporate image. Bus and train companies just do not have loads of vehicles and drivers just waiting to spring into action to fill gaps. Most of the time there will be no issue at all and certainly not the "safety risk" you seem to imagine is waiting to leap out from behind a hedge and to inflict death and destruction on standing passengers. Have you travelled in the Far East? I have and can tell you that travelling conditions there are far more crushed than here. They have extremely efficient and reliable trains and well run bus networks and yet there is no demand for constraints and restrictions due to safety concerns. It is recognised that travel at peak times will mean a crush and places like Tokyo, Hong Kong and Singapore all have well planned, medium - long term strategies to keep building new lines, extensions, resignalling and to buy more rolling stock. I'm of the opinion that all of their good work will still result in overcrowding because the extra capacity facilitates easier access to work and leisure facilities and thus people travel more. Good and improved public transport also triggers further economic development which creates more reasons for people to travel - it's a viscious cycle but a positive one overall. Ultimately, changes to the system will have to be made, and someone will have to spend some money upgrading the transport system we have at present. Fine - I completely agree with that but first I'd like the country to work out some objectives and priorities for what it wants its transport network to do and an agreed, long term way of delivering those objectives and priorities. Until we do this we'll keep getting our repeated lurches from left to right in our transport policies which gets us nowhere. But even if money is spent, unless transport operating companies stop pulling vehicles out of service without notice and without providing a substitute service, then passengers will continue to be frequently jam-packed into carriages to a point where they almost cannot breathe, and cannot exit without extreme difficulty. Sorry but it's been like this for decades and will continue to be so. As others have mentioned, the Central Line in the peak is as badly crowded now as it was back in the 80s when I first used it and I dare say back several decades before then when it had a bigger catchment area as other tube and rail lines weren't in use. You are demanding a panacea that is undeliverable. The alternative is a fully reserved tube, bus and train service which is a palpable nonsense because it is unmanageable in the context of almost all railway services (TGV and Eurostar being particular exceptions). It would also be hugely unpopular with the public because some people prefer to stand and it would make journey times longer, the service less attractive and also make the cost of any new line or extension unsustainable. The final result would be to worsen safety because people would transfer to the roads and use cars which are less safe than public transport. This is the point of the petition. I believe that that sort of gross-overcrowding situation is dangerous, and will result in people being badly hurt or possibly even killed at some point in the future. You clearly do not understand what the safety regulations say in respect of the (bus and rail) transport industry. There is no requirement to provide seats for everyone - in fact just the opposite is allowed. There is a test of reasonable practicality in terms of safety improvement and that invokes whether it is value for money to spend the money. I have to say that your perception of danger is out of kilter with that of many other people and to try to use such an incorrect perception as the basis of arguing for transport improvement is unlikely to secure any improvement whatsoever. There are loads of other very good arguments for improving public transport - I suggest you employ those instead. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
In message , Jonathan
writes Public transport has always been awful; and over the past couple of years I've noticed that more and more often I'm squashed inside a bus or train, with hardly enough room to breathe, because the company decided to cancel earlier buses or trains without notice, and without making any alternative arrangements. Because I believe that this gross-overcrowding is a serious risk to public health and safety, I've created a petition at http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/sardines/ asking for action to be taken to stop this gross-overcrowding. Therefore, if anyone else here shares my concerns, please co-sign the petition, and if possible, please pass the message along to a few friends. If you're stupid enough to cram yourself on an already full bus or train, you only have yourself to blame - it's not like anyone's stood at the stop forcing you to get on. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
Petition to stop overcrowding on public transport
On Jul 27, 7:27 pm, Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote: Therefore, if anyone else here shares my concerns, please co-sign the petition, and if possible, please pass the message along to a few friends. If you're stupid enough to cram yourself on an already full bus or train, you only have yourself to blame - it's not like anyone's stood at the stop forcing you to get on. So you don't have to be in work at a certain time? No one would force themselves on a bus or train if they knew the next one was coming 2 minutes later and was almost empty. However thats generally not the case is it. B2003 |
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