Overcrowded trains
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message . uk, at
23:36:00 on Sat, 2 Aug 2008, Colin Rosenstiel
remarked:
07:15 Cambridge London Kings Cross 176%
07:45 Cambridge London Kings Cross 164%
17:45 London Kings Cross Kings Lynn 164%

Due to be 12 car trains

20 extra carriages are apparently to be supplied to FCC, but not
necessarily all for use on the Cambridge line. I'll be interesting to see
what sort those are. Displaced from elsewhere, presumably.

from May 2009 (at least I think so in the third case).

Does that mean their stopping pattern will change?

If those are average rather than worst snapshot figures they will still
have standing passengers.

Why cannot more mainline trains be a little longer (by a carriage or two)
and overhang platforms at the back?

It happens on various rural routes and seems to present no problem.
--
Brian
"Fight like the Devil, die like a gentleman."

Overcrowded trains
 

In message , at 10:17:46 on Sun, 3
Aug 2008, Brian Watson remarked:
Why cannot more mainline trains be a little longer (by a carriage or two)
and overhang platforms at the back?

It happens on various rural routes and seems to present no problem.

The Elfin Safety people won't allow it. And surprisingly a lot of modern
trains simply aren't equipped with sufficiently sophisticated selective
door opening.

As you say, it can happen on some "grandfather rights" rural routes. I
was on a 5-car train a week ago that stopped at two stations with only
room for 3-cars. The way they organised it was for the guard to make
several announcements and walk through the train, and then *only* open
the door at the very front of the train by the driver's cab.

And many London commuter trains are driver-only-operated so similar
logisitics would be difficult.
--
Roland Perry

Overcrowded trains
 

"Roland Perry" wrote

As you say, it can happen on some "grandfather rights" rural routes. I
was on a 5-car train a week ago that stopped at two stations with only
room for 3-cars. The way they organised it was for the guard to make
several announcements and walk through the train, and then *only* open
the door at the very front of the train by the driver's cab.

In slam door days there were three options:
1 - Guard goes through train and moves passengers who wish to alight at a
short platform, so that they are in a coach which will be adjacent to the
platform.
2 - Front of train stops at platform, then train draws up to get next
portion by the platform. I've been on a train which drew up twice to let one
passenger alight at Duncraig.
3 - Passengers climb down to track level. I've done this at Culrain, and at
Corrour, when the Saturday evening train used to have a 6 coach seats and
sleeper portion for London, plus a 6 coach portion for Glasgow. I alighted
somewhere in the vicinity of the loop points.

Peter

Overcrowded trains
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:17:46 on Sun, 3 Aug
2008, Brian Watson remarked:
Why cannot more mainline trains be a little longer (by a carriage or two)
and overhang platforms at the back?

It happens on various rural routes and seems to present no problem.

The Elfin Safety people won't allow it. And surprisingly a lot of modern
trains simply aren't equipped with sufficiently sophisticated selective
door opening.


As I've mentioned before, TOCs such as SWT use SDO by whole unit, sometimes
only releasing the doors in 4 coaches of 12; or using single door only in
444s at 4 platform stations such as Beaulieu Rd, or Shawford.

Happens routinely on the mainline platforms at Clapham Junction too, so the
rural bit isn't a requirement either.

Thes trains do not have 'grandfather rights' - so the H&S issues presumably
can be overcome if required - you can nearly always find an example of
something happening on the railway that they say 'isn't possible' somewhere
else...

Paul

Overcrowded trains
 

"Peter Masson" wrote in message
...

In slam door days there were three options:

4 - everybody just got onto the right carriage in the first place, as per
the notices and announcements at the point of embarkation - "front two
coaches for x" etc.

--
Tim Ward - posting as an individual unless otherwise clear
Brett Ward Limited - www.brettward.co.uk
Cambridge Accommodation Notice Board - www.brettward.co.uk/canb
Cambridge City Councillor

Overcrowded trains
 

Thes trains do not have 'grandfather rights' - so the H&S issues presumably
can be overcome if required - you can nearly always find an example of
something happening on the railway that they say 'isn't possible' somewhere
else...

The Whistling Fellsman tour - 13 Mk2's (plus a generator coach) - set
down at Denton last night with no problems.

But then there were plenty of stewards to make sure passengers were
moved forward to the first 3 coaches in order to alight safely.

Overcrowded trains
 

On Aug 3, 10:17*am, "Brian Watson" wrote:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message

...





In message . uk, at
23:36:00 on Sat, 2 Aug 2008, Colin Rosenstiel
remarked:
07:15 Cambridge London Kings Cross * * 176%
07:45 Cambridge London Kings Cross * * 164%
17:45 London Kings Cross Kings Lynn * *164%

Due to be 12 car trains

20 extra carriages are apparently to be supplied to FCC, but not
necessarily all for use on the Cambridge line. I'll be interesting to see
what sort those are. Displaced from elsewhere, presumably.

from May 2009 (at least I think so in the third case).

Does that mean their stopping pattern will change?

If those are average rather than worst snapshot figures they will still
have standing passengers.

Why cannot more mainline trains be a little longer (by a carriage or two)
and overhang platforms at the back?

It happens on various rural routes and seems to present no problem.
--
Brian
"Fight like the Devil, die like a gentleman."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Apart from the issues already described by others, one major problem
on certain routes is platform length at the terminus or key
intermediate stations. Waterloo is a good example, where many
platforms can only handle 8-car trains (and most others only 12-car of
20 m or 10-car of 23 m) and the platforms cannot be lengthened in the
country direction owing to signalling issues, or reduction in capacity
of flexibility.

Other stations similarly constrained include London Bridge (no
platform can take more than 12 cars), Liverpool Street, Kings Cross
and Cambridge. Glasgow Central also has a number of short platforms.

Overcrowded trains
 

On Sun, 3 Aug 2008 10:17:46 +0100 someone who may be "Brian Watson"
wrote this:-

Why cannot more mainline trains be a little longer (by a carriage or two)
and overhang platforms at the back?

It happens on various rural routes and seems to present no problem.

Some years ago a lady got off a HST at Markinch. She had not checked
to see if there was a platform to put her feet on and as a result
she broke her ankle when she landed on the lineside. Such things
are/were not common, but are a reason to slowly eliminate the
possibility.

On lines equipped with conductor rails the result might be worse. In
some places, generally in built up areas, lines come together
quickly after the platform and someone could fall onto or near
another line. Some platforms are near bridges and there is the
possibility of people stepping off into a river or over a large
drop, or onto a bridge parapet which they then fall off. The
relatively well known case of the former was at Bath Spa, with a
soldier stepping out of a train and falling into the river.




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Overcrowded trains
 

In message , at 12:12:36 on Sun, 3
Aug 2008, Tim Ward remarked:
In slam door days there were three options:

4 - everybody just got onto the right carriage in the first place, as per
the notices and announcements at the point of embarkation - "front two
coaches for x" etc.

That's usually because the trains split, rather than a short platform.
For some reason this is regarded as less passenger-unfriendly than only
opening half the doors, presumably because at the station where the
train splits there's the ability to change units if it turns out you are
the wrong one.

Perhaps one of the options for the Cambridge trains is to run fast to
Letchworth then split into 8 & 4 car units. One running fast to
Cambridge and the other becoming an all station stopper.

--
Roland Perry

Overcrowded trains
 

In message , at 12:09:45 on
Sun, 3 Aug 2008, Paul Scott remarked:
As I've mentioned before, TOCs such as SWT use SDO by whole unit, sometimes
only releasing the doors in 4 coaches of 12; or using single door only in
444s at 4 platform stations such as Beaulieu Rd, or Shawford.

Do those trains have a corridor connection between each set of 4
carriages?

One of the major design flaws in the networkers on the Cambridge line is
that they don't.

The 5-car train I mentioned earlier was made of three units (2+2+1) and
not only was there a corridor all the way through, the connecting doors
were open so you could see all the way through the train!
--
Roland Perry