gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

Does anybody here seriously think that a new bus will be allowed with
open rear deck.

I sincerely hope so.

An open platform may make sense in Oxford Street where the speeds of
traffic are pretty slow but really anywhere else it is simply dangerous
- the only justification of an open platform is so that people can get
on and off at places which aren't bus stops - is there any other?.

Does there need to be? Isn't that compelling enough already?

Mind you, Oxford Street is the only place I saw a potential boarder fall
backwards off a Routemaster into the gutter when they missed a bus
moving off.

****ed, was he?

On the Railways, people try to open doors on Mark III carriages when the
central locking has been applied even when they are told to stop by
platform staff. On the Tube, people try to get tube doors open with the
slightest opening jamming themselves in. You can't tell me that people
won't try to board moving buses that they have just missed and that is
dangerous.

Trains don't have platforms just outside them when they're stationary at
signals.

No amount of education will change public nature.

Nor should it attempt to.

On 21 Dec, 07:51, Adrian wrote:

gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

(snip)

No amount of education will change public nature.

Nor should it attempt to.

So all those 'no-spitting' campaigns of old - of which notices to that
effect appeared on Routemaster buses amongst other places - shouldn't
have occurred, despite the fact that spitting in public is rather less
common than it once was.(especially in places that aren't actually the
street).

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

On 21 Dec, 07:51, Adrian wrote:

gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

(snip)

No amount of education will change public nature.

Nor should it attempt to.

So all those 'no-spitting' campaigns of old - of which notices to that
effect appeared on Routemaster buses amongst other places - shouldn't
have occurred, despite the fact that spitting in public is rather less
common than it once was.(especially in places that aren't actually the
street).

When were these campaigns? I don't remember any when the Routemasters were
newer. I would have done so too because I remember the "Défense de
cracher" signs in Paris transport.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 21 Dec, 07:51, Adrian wrote:
gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

Does anybody here seriously think that a new bus will be allowed with
open rear deck.
I sincerely hope so.
An open platform may make sense in Oxford Street where the speeds of
traffic are pretty slow but really anywhere else it is simply dangerous
- the only justification of an open platform is so that people can get
on and off at places which aren't bus stops - is there any other?.

Does there need to be? Isn't that compelling enough already?


It's about as compelling as saying that you should be able to park
your car absolutely anywhere regardless of the effect on traffice. If
it was the right way to proceed there wouldn't be rules against
drivers opening the doors on conventional buses when they aren't at
stops.

Mind you, Oxford Street is the only place I saw a potential boarder fall
backwards off a Routemaster into the gutter when they missed a bus
moving off.

****ed, was he?

Not at all. It was an apparently sober female shopper carrying
shopping bags who went to board a bus moving off at Oxford Circus and
didn't make it. Are you trying to suggest that only drunk people run
for buses and miss them?

On Dec 21, 1:07*pm, wrote:
On 21 Dec, 07:51, Adrian wrote:

gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

Does anybody here seriously think that a new bus will be allowed with
open rear deck.
I sincerely hope so.
An open platform may make sense in Oxford Street where the speeds of
traffic are pretty slow but really anywhere else it is simply dangerous
- the only justification of an open platform is so that people can get
on and off at places which aren't bus stops - is there any other?.

Does there need to be? Isn't that compelling enough already?

It's about as compelling as saying that you should be able to park
your car absolutely anywhere regardless of the effect on traffice. *If
it was the right way to proceed there wouldn't be rules against
drivers opening the doors on conventional buses when they aren't at
stops.

Mind you, Oxford Street is the only place I saw a potential boarder fall
backwards off a Routemaster into the gutter when they missed a bus
moving off.

****ed, was he?

Not at all. *It was an apparently sober female shopper carrying
shopping bags who went to board a bus moving off at Oxford Circus and
didn't make it. *Are you trying to suggest that only drunk people run
for buses and miss them?

I expect that open platforms would be a far greater risk nowadays,
with drivers effectively required to avoid letting people get on or
off in order to keep to timings (and all stops being request stops
now).

On 21 Dec, 13:23, MIG wrote:

(snip)

I expect that open platforms would be a far greater risk nowadays,
with drivers effectively required to avoid letting people get on or
off in order to keep to timings (and all stops being request stops
now).

Are all stops request stops now? I know there was a consultation on
this (to which I didn't respond, grrr) but is this now official
policy, or just your interpretation of what happens in reality?

On Dec 21, 2:13*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 21 Dec, 13:23, MIG wrote:



(snip)

I expect that open platforms would be a far greater risk nowadays,
with drivers effectively required to avoid letting people get on or
off in order to keep to timings (and all stops being request stops
now).

Are all stops request stops now? I know there was a consultation on
this (to which I didn't respond, grrr) but is this now official
policy, or just your interpretation of what happens in reality?

That's an interesting point ... firstly, yes I was referring
facetiously to what is effectively the situation now (having been
whisked past a white-coloured stop at Trafalgar Square in the rush
hour when I was standing by the door, plus other examples, I am in no
doubt).

But the thing about the proposal was that drivers would have to stop
at all stops if there was someone there, even current request stops,
so they'd probably end up stopping much more than they currently do.

"MIG" wrote in message
...
On Dec 21, 2:13 pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 21 Dec, 13:23, MIG wrote:



(snip)

I expect that open platforms would be a far greater risk nowadays,
with drivers effectively required to avoid letting people get on or
off in order to keep to timings (and all stops being request stops
now).

Are all stops request stops now? I know there was a consultation on
this (to which I didn't respond, grrr) but is this now official
policy, or just your interpretation of what happens in reality?

That's an interesting point ... firstly, yes I was referring
facetiously to what is effectively the situation now (having been
whisked past a white-coloured stop at Trafalgar Square in the rush
hour when I was standing by the door, plus other examples, I am in no
doubt).

Merely standing by the door is not a reliable indication that you want to
get off at the next stop. AFAIK it's been the case for many years that
passengers wishing to alight should press a red button, whether it's a
compulsory or request stop (that distinction being meaningful only for
prospective passengers at the stop).

But the thing about the proposal was that drivers would have to stop
at all stops if there was someone there, even current request stops,
so they'd probably end up stopping much more than they currently do.

Maybe that's why it doesn't seem to have been implemented. I haven't found
any decision mentioned in the TfL board minutes. Does anyone know if a
decision was made or are they still thinking about it? Consultation ended
in July 2007.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On Dec 21, 5:19*pm, "Richard J." wrote:
"MIG" wrote in message

...





On Dec 21, 2:13 pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 21 Dec, 13:23, MIG wrote:

(snip)

I expect that open platforms would be a far greater risk nowadays,
with drivers effectively required to avoid letting people get on or
off in order to keep to timings (and all stops being request stops
now).

Are all stops request stops now? I know there was a consultation on
this (to which I didn't respond, grrr) but is this now official
policy, or just your interpretation of what happens in reality?

That's an interesting point ... firstly, yes I was referring
facetiously to what is effectively the situation now (having been
whisked past a white-coloured stop at Trafalgar Square in the rush
hour when I was standing by the door, plus other examples, I am in no
doubt).

Merely standing by the door is not a reliable indication that you want to
get off at the next stop. *AFAIK it's been the case for many years that
passengers wishing to alight should press a red button, whether it's a
compulsory or request stop (that distinction being meaningful only for
prospective passengers at the stop).

Indeed not, which is why I always now press the button (and also get
up later, wasting more time).

However, this merely confirms what I said, which is that all stops are
now request stops. It used to the the case that a bus stop being
white in colour was all that was required to make the bus stop there.
London Transport didn't distinguish between people inside and outside
the bus.


But the thing about the proposal was that drivers would have to stop
at all stops if there was someone there, even current request stops,
so they'd probably end up stopping much more than they currently do.

Maybe that's why it doesn't seem to have been implemented. I haven't found
any decision mentioned in the TfL board minutes. *Does anyone know if a
decision was made or are they still thinking about it? *Consultation ended
in July 2007.

Maybe the responses suitably riduculed the proposal, given the
reality, and they realised that they had already got away with a
reduction in stops well beyond what they were proposing.

On 21 Dec, 14:33, MIG wrote:

On Dec 21, 2:13*pm, Mizter T wrote:

On 21 Dec, 13:23, MIG wrote:

(snip)

I expect that open platforms would be a far greater risk nowadays,
with drivers effectively required to avoid letting people get on or
off in order to keep to timings (and all stops being request stops
now).

Are all stops request stops now? I know there was a consultation on
this (to which I didn't respond, grrr) but is this now official
policy, or just your interpretation of what happens in reality?

That's an interesting point ... firstly, yes I was referring
facetiously to what is effectively the situation now (having been
whisked past a white-coloured stop at Trafalgar Square in the rush
hour when I was standing by the door, plus other examples, I am in no
doubt).

First off, silly question but was the bus stop the right one for your
bus? (I'm quite sure it was but it doesn't hurt to explore all
possibilities.)

Anyway, yes I do recall finding myself in that situation when on a bus
in the recent past when it should have stopped at a compulsory stop
(red roundel on white background, like you state) - however most of
the time I ding the bell as a matter of habit more than anything else.
And I've also found myself at a compulsory bus stop where the bus
sailed past without stopping. So I think I pretty much hail the bus
regardless of what type the stop is supposed to be!


But the thing about the proposal was that drivers would have to stop
at all stops if there was someone there, even current request stops,
so they'd probably end up stopping much more than they currently do.


Yes, I recall now - I only read about it on here TBH, and never read
any of the proposal documents - by the time I got round to looking in
to it the consultation period had finished. I certainly wouldn't want
there to be any such policy whereby all buses has to stop at all stops
whatsoever - in fact it would be ludicrous. I therefore wonder if the
proposal was not in fact a straw man set up simply so as to be
comprehensively demolished. Perhaps the genesis of this was the
problem of lots of buses approaching one bus stop and the complaints
from those who have missed their bus in the ensuing melee - in Hong
Kong I believe that all buses queue up to get right up to the bus
stop, however long this might take. I think that any such issues here
can be remedied through the bus drivers simply being a little bit more
considerate, as indeed I think most of them already are in this
situation. So perhaps the whole consultation exercise was the result
of a suggestion that this HK approach should be tried here.

So perhaps the official policy should simply change to one that
reflects what actually happens - all bus stops are request, full stop
(or indeed not).