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Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
There's a been a fair amount of discussion here on the new improved bus
information systems, but while the buses are chatting merrily away to us, the 'countdown' system is decaying rapidly, with frequent breakdowns, invisible buses, ghost buses and - lately - a spate of displays being removed rather than repaired. I know that some of the problems are are due to depots / drivers not setting up their equipment properly (Firstbus is a major contender for an award), but I thought the new system was going to include updated 'countdown'? Let's face it, for most of us, the on-bus stuff is a minor inconvenience, or a minor boon - it's while you wait for the bus that you are most likely to need info. Does anyone have any useful info / links? -- Andrew If you stand up and be counted, From time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. - Thomas J. Watson Jr. |
Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
On 21 Jan, 08:53, "Andrew Heenan" wrote: There's a been a fair amount of discussion here on the new improved bus information systems, but while the buses are chatting merrily away to us, the 'countdown' system is decaying rapidly, with frequent breakdowns, invisible buses, ghost buses and - lately - a spate of displays being removed rather than repaired. I know that some of the problems are are due to depots / drivers not setting up their equipment properly (Firstbus is a major contender for an award), but I thought the new system was going to include updated 'countdown'? Let's face it, for most of us, the on-bus stuff is a minor inconvenience, or a minor boon - it's while you wait for the bus that you are most likely to need info. Does anyone have any useful info / links? I thought at first you were talking about the plan for a new iconic bus shelter design for London that Boris dropped on getting elected - but no, 'tis about Countdown. I too was under the impression that the iBus project was going to mean that the information provided to Countdown displays at bus stops was going to be more accurate. When it works it's great - but it is, as you imply, rather frustrating when it doesn't. |
Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
On Jan 21, 11:53*am, Mizter T wrote:
I thought at first you were talking about the plan for a new iconic bus shelter design for London that Boris dropped on getting elected - Pity he can't drop his stupid obsession with getting rid of bendy buses too. B2003 |
Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
On Jan 21, 8:53*am, "Andrew Heenan" wrote:
There's a been a fair amount of discussion here on the new improved bus information systems, but while the buses are chatting merrily away to us, the 'countdown' system is decaying rapidly, with frequent breakdowns, invisible buses, ghost buses and - lately - *a spate of displays being removed rather than repaired. I agree it's not working terribly well - at least based on the examples I see. I know that some of the problems are are due to depots / drivers not setting up their equipment properly (Firstbus is a major contender for an award), but I thought the new system was going to include updated 'countdown'? We need to keep in mind that Countdown is a system in its own right with its own equipment. I-Bus is a separate system and has, from my experience, some issues of its own about reliability. Barely 50% of trips I make have a fully functioning system (in terms of output to passengers) but I do use a lot of vehicles from Tottenham Garage (which was the pilot installation and therefore may be more "buggy" as a result). I'm really not sure whether the interface to Countdown displays is part of the I-Bus contract or not although the info on the TfL website implies that bus stop displays are linked in to I-Bus. Certainly an expansion of stop displays (an extra 2000) is a separate and second phase and I don't know if it is still in the TfL Business Plan - a check of that document on the TfL website might help. I also don't know whether existing Countdown displays are still working off the original vehicle mounted equipment and beacons or whether they are linked into the overall I-Bus central system. If it the former of these two options then I can understand why performance may be poor as the system is effectively obsolete. It's interesting that you cite quite clear reasons for problems with FirstBus's I-Bus performance - how do you know it is garage or driver set up that is the cause of the problems? I've recently experienced buses not knowing where they are (* on the display) and then springing in to life further on. Drivers can't use the equipment if the bus is moving and the change in the display happened while we were moving. Perhaps a signal to and from the bus was magically restored? Let's face it, for most of us, the on-bus stuff is a minor inconvenience, or a minor boon - it's while you wait for the bus that you are most likely to need info. Actually the one thing I want to see happen is the (manifesto) promise to give people access to real time stop depature info via the Internet. This would be a real benefit and given the spread of wi-fi and portable data access I can see it being a real winner for people - I would certainly use it. However I have not seen one word about it in TfL minutes or any other report or in Mayor questions. I hope it has not died a quiet death. Paul Corfield via Google. |
Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
I look forward to the day when all buses have GPS transponder on
board. I can look at the google maps and see where every bus is on the route. I can them time leaving the pub / home / work confident that a bus will be along shortly. Technically possible now. That would be progress |
Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
"Paul Corfield" wrote :
It's interesting that you cite quite clear reasons for problems with FirstBus's I-Bus performance - how do you know it is garage or driver set up that is the cause of the problems? I've recently experienced buses not knowing where they are (* on the display) and then springing in to life further on. Drivers can't use the equipment if the bus is moving and the change in the display happened while we were moving. Perhaps a signal to and from the bus was magically restored? Not i-bus problems - Countdown problems. I don't think the two are linked (yet), and I've read somewhere that much of the countdown system is obsolete, which is why I'm wonderuing about how / when renewal will happen. All services are prone to the occasional 'lost on route' (*), this is a feature(!) of countdown (and i-bus to some degree) and large lorries / other buses. But it's a personal experience thing - I take a number of bus routes regularly, mostly East London, Arriva (N), Metroline and First (E). Buses appearing from nowhere is a rare occurrence on other routes - but fairly frequent on First. Buses counting down for ten minutes then disappearing forever (ghost buses) appears to me to be more frequent on F services, too. And this is routes where the incoming 1+ mile is shared with other services that have no problems. I've no way of knowing if it's driver or bus that's 'wrong' - but it sure ain't 'the system'! And while we're naming names - I've found any Countdown issues with Arriva and East London to be as rare as Hen's Teeth, though I've seen them here and there with most other companies from time to time. Spend half an hour waiting at the Angel on bitterly cold evenings, and you notice these things! -- Andrew |
Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
On 21 Jan, 12:53, wrote: On Jan 21, 11:53*am, Mizter T wrote: I thought at first you were talking about the plan for a new iconic bus shelter design for London that Boris dropped on getting elected - Pity he can't drop his stupid obsession with getting rid of bendy buses too. Hallelujah to that ... .... but now I'm waiting for something to happen as a result of me agreeing with Boltar ... like the fabric of the universe tearing apart! ;-) (But no, I'm not up for rehearsing the pro-and-anti bendy arguments again, at least not now, in case anyone takes the above as an invitation to do start doing so!). |
Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
On 21 Jan, 13:52, "Andrew Heenan" wrote: "Paul Corfield" wrote : It's interesting that you cite quite clear reasons for problems with FirstBus's I-Bus performance - how do you know it is garage or driver set up that is the cause of the problems? I've recently experienced buses not knowing where they are (* on the display) and then springing in to life further on. Drivers can't use the equipment if the bus is moving and the change in the display happened while we were moving. Perhaps a signal to and from the bus was magically restored? Not i-bus problems - Countdown problems. I don't think the two are linked (yet), and I've read somewhere that much of the countdown system is obsolete, which is why I'm wonderuing about how / when renewal will happen. |
Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
On 21 Jan, 13:32, Paul Corfield wrote: On Jan 21, 8:53*am, "Andrew Heenan" wrote: There's a been a fair amount of discussion here on the new improved bus information systems, but while the buses are chatting merrily away to us, the 'countdown' system is decaying rapidly, with frequent breakdowns, invisible buses, ghost buses and - lately - *a spate of displays being removed rather than repaired. I agree it's not working terribly well - at least based on the examples I see. I know that some of the problems are are due to depots / drivers not setting up their equipment properly (Firstbus is a major contender for an award), but I thought the new system was going to include updated 'countdown'? We need to keep in mind that Countdown is a system in its own right with its own equipment. I-Bus is a separate system and has, from my experience, some issues of its own about reliability. Barely 50% of trips I make have a fully functioning system (in terms of output to passengers) but I do use a lot of vehicles from Tottenham Garage (which was the pilot installation and therefore may be more "buggy" as a result). I'm really not sure whether the interface to Countdown displays is part of the I-Bus contract or not although the info on the TfL website implies that bus stop displays are linked in to I-Bus. Certainly an expansion of stop displays (an extra 2000) is a separate and second phase and I don't know if it is still in the TfL Business Plan - a check of that document on the TfL website might help. *I also don't know whether existing Countdown displays are still working off the original vehicle mounted equipment and beacons or whether they are linked into the overall I-Bus central system. *If it the former of these two options then I can understand why performance may be poor as the system is effectively obsolete. I take it to mean that data from the bus beacon system is now only used for Countdown, if indeed that? It's interesting that you cite quite clear reasons for problems with FirstBus's I-Bus performance - how do you know it is garage or driver set up that is the cause of the problems? *I've recently experienced buses not knowing where they are (* on the display) and then springing in to life further on. Drivers can't use the equipment if the bus is moving and the change in the display happened while we were moving. Perhaps a signal to and from the bus was magically restored? Let's face it, for most of us, the on-bus stuff is a minor inconvenience, or a minor boon - it's while you wait for the bus that you are most likely to need info. Actually the one thing I want to see happen is the (manifesto) promise to give people access to real time stop depature info via the Internet. *This would be a real benefit and given the spread of wi-fi and portable data access I can see it being a real winner for people - I would certainly use it. However I have not seen one word about it in TfL minutes or any other report or in Mayor questions. I hope it has not died a quiet death. Only any good and worth doing if the information provided were to be really pretty reliable - if it wasn't, then the early adopter 'geeks' who would rapidly test it to destruction would quickly pass a poor verdict on it, which in turn would likely filter down to the populus at large. Of course it could be released initially as a 'beta' version, but still it would need to work (much) more often than not. If the Countdown system is not yet linked to the i-Bus data stream then that definitely needs to be sorted first. Then there's issues about whether i-Bus is yet working properly and reliably enough - you know all this, it's some the cheek of me to even mention it really! I wonder if there might also be potential issues about the IT system architecture needed to make this happen - in other words enough servers and data capacity to meet what could be quite a significant demand. |
Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
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Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
Neil Williams wrote On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 05:45:52 -0800 (PST), wrote: Technically possible now. That would be progress I've seen that done, though I forget where it was. http://leytr.blogspot.com IIRC "most popular bus stop" (was outside London) Send a text message with the bus stop id and get a reply with the times of the next buses. -- Mike D |
Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
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Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
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Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
On Jan 22, 7:24*am, James Farrar wrote:
If he did that, you'd be all over him for breaking a manifesto commitment.. Politicians never stick to them anyway. And if common sense prevailed over a manifesto I don't think too many people would complain. B2003 |
Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
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Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
I think that Countdown should actually use the Countdown music, and as
the buses arrive it should go, ♫ Dee-dee, dee-dee Diddly-dee BOO! ♫ DOORS OPEN |
Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message ... On Jan 21, 8:53 am, "Andrew Heenan" wrote: There's a been a fair amount of discussion here on the new improved bus information systems, but while the buses are chatting merrily away to us, the 'countdown' system is decaying rapidly, with frequent breakdowns, invisible buses, ghost buses and - lately - a spate of displays being removed rather than repaired. I agree it's not working terribly well - at least based on the examples I see. I know that some of the problems are are due to depots / drivers not setting up their equipment properly (Firstbus is a major contender for an award), but I thought the new system was going to include updated 'countdown'? We need to keep in mind that Countdown is a system in its own right with its own equipment. I-Bus is a separate system and has, from my experience, some issues of its own about reliability. Barely 50% of trips I make have a fully functioning system (in terms of output to passengers) but I do use a lot of vehicles from Tottenham Garage (which was the pilot installation and therefore may be more "buggy" as a result). I'm really not sure whether the interface to Countdown displays is part of the I-Bus contract or not although the info on the TfL website implies that bus stop displays are linked in to I-Bus. Certainly an expansion of stop displays (an extra 2000) is a separate and second phase and I don't know if it is still in the TfL Business Plan - a check of that document on the TfL website might help. I also don't know whether existing Countdown displays are still working off the original vehicle mounted equipment and beacons or whether they are linked into the overall I-Bus central system. If it the former of these two options then I can understand why performance may be poor as the system is effectively obsolete. It's interesting that you cite quite clear reasons for problems with FirstBus's I-Bus performance - how do you know it is garage or driver set up that is the cause of the problems? I've recently experienced buses not knowing where they are (* on the display) and then springing in to life further on. Drivers can't use the equipment if the bus is moving and the change in the display happened while we were moving. Perhaps a signal to and from the bus was magically restored? Let's face it, for most of us, the on-bus stuff is a minor inconvenience, or a minor boon - it's while you wait for the bus that you are most likely to need info. Actually the one thing I want to see happen is the (manifesto) promise to give people access to real time stop depature info via the Internet. This would be a real benefit and given the spread of wi-fi and portable data access I can see it being a real winner for people - I would certainly use it. However I have not seen one word about it in TfL minutes or any other report or in Mayor questions. I hope it has not died a quiet death. Paul Corfield via Google. I disagree with this, most of the people having to use the bus might not have portable data access, be able to use it or want to pay to use it. Also pulling out your mobile or blackberry at a bus shelter might mean that you are forceably separated from it. No, fix countdown I say. María |
Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
On 24 Jan, 23:27, "Maria" wrote:
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message [snip loads of other stuff] Actually the one thing I want to see happen is the (manifesto) promise to give people access to real time stop depature info via the Internet. *This would be a real benefit and given the spread of wi-fi and portable data access I can see it being a real winner for people - I would certainly use it. However I have not seen one word about it in TfL minutes or any other report or in Mayor questions. I hope it has not died a quiet death. Paul Corfield via Google. I disagree with this, most of the people having to use the bus might not have portable data access, be able to use it or want to pay to use it. *Also pulling out your mobile or blackberry at a bus shelter might mean that you are forceably separated from it. *No, fix countdown *I say. María I was not proposing that the manifesto proposal was in place of fixing countdown or even expanding it. It would be *in addition* to it. Paul Corfield via Google |
Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
"Maria" wrote:
I disagree with this, most of the people having to use the bus might not have portable data access, be able to use it or want to pay to use it. Also pulling out your mobile or blackberry at a bus shelter might mean that you are forceably separated from it. No, fix countdown I say. Both. But fix countdown *first* 1. New display equipment without obsolete componenets 2. Wired into iBus. -- Andrew If you stand up and be counted, From time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. - Thomas J. Watson Jr. |
Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 08:52:27 -0000, "Andrew Heenan"
wrote: 1. New display equipment without obsolete componenets 2. Wired into iBus. I am pretty sure there are plans to do both of these. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
On 25 Jan, 08:52, "Andrew Heenan" wrote: "Maria" wrote: I disagree with this, most of the people having to use the bus might not have portable data access, be able to use it or want to pay to use it. Also pulling out your mobile or blackberry at a bus shelter might mean that you are forceably separated from it. *No, fix countdown *I say.. Both. But fix countdown *first* 1. New display equipment without obsolete componenets 2. Wired into iBus. Is the Countdown display equipment at bus stops really obsolete? |
Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
"Mizter T" wrote:
Both. But fix countdown *first* 1. New display equipment without obsolete componenets 2. Wired into iBus. Is the Countdown display equipment at bus stops really obsolete? When iBus was 'launched', one of the arguments justifying the cost was that as well as being technically superior (which it most certainly is), it would deal with the problem that spare parts were getting increasingly difficult to obtain. Accellerated removal rather than repair of knackered boxes supports this, but I've yet to see anything 'official' - either way. -- Andrew |
Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
On 25 Jan, 18:22, "Andrew Heenan" wrote: "Mizter T" wrote: Both. But fix countdown *first* 1. New display equipment without obsolete componenets 2. Wired into iBus. Is the Countdown display equipment at bus stops really obsolete? When iBus was 'launched', one of the arguments justifying the cost was that as well as being technically superior (which it most certainly is), it would deal with the problem that spare parts were getting increasingly difficult to obtain. *Accellerated removal rather than repair of knackered boxes supports this, but I've yet to see anything 'official' - either way. But I dare say that may just have been referring to the beacon-based tracking system as opposed to the rather more visible dot-matrix displays at bus stops. |
Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
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Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
On 25 Jan, 18:58, wrote: In article , (Andrew Heenan) wrote: "Mizter T" wrote: Both. But fix countdown *first* 1. New display equipment without obsolete componenets 2. Wired into iBus. Is the Countdown display equipment at bus stops really obsolete? When iBus was 'launched', one of the arguments justifying the cost was that as well as being technically superior (which it most certainly is), it would deal with the problem that spare parts were getting increasingly difficult to obtain. *Accellerated removal rather than repair of knackered boxes supports this, but I've yet to see anything 'official' - either way. Presumably removal of some also generates a supply of spares for those remaining in use? As I said in my other reply to Andrew, the "obsolete equipment" that the iBus system will replace is nothing to do with the actual Countdown dot-matrix displays - after all this is hardly specialist equipment, it's just standard off-the-shelf stuff- the obsolete equipment argument surely revolves around the whole beacon tracking system on which Countdown is based. AIUI this beacon tracking system used to form the basis of TfL's bus tracking system (see earlier posts in this thread), but that role has now moved on to the GPS tracking system employed in the iBus project. |
Oi! Boris! Wot abaht the bus shelters?
"Mizter T" wrote:
But I dare say that may just have been referring to the beacon-based tracking system as opposed to the rather more visible dot-matrix displays at bus stops. Your guess is as good as mine - fact is, they don't fix them very well or very often, and in my part of the world, they seem tobe removing them if the y break down (islington). But it's fair to say that LED displays have moved significantly in the past few years; it's certainly not beyond the bounds of possibility that they ARE obsolete. Frankly, I don't care - so long as they work! :o) |
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