On 19 Mar, 12:33, wrote:
AIUI FCC would not require GSM on 377s for the same reason that SN do.

The Victoria 377 problem is GSM, yes, sure, but it is for postioning
for SDO.

FCC/TL *won't be using SDO ... they do not use it anywhere on their
network pre-KO0

Yes they will!! The 377/5s are Southern units, built to Southern
specifications. Whether FCC need SDO is not relevant! One thing we
found on Southern when the 377s came in was that an 8 car 455 station
wax not an 8 car 377 station, e.g Mitcham Jnc & Battersea Park

On 20 Mar, 07:58, Standing at HN28 signal
wrote:
On 19 Mar, 12:33, wrote:

AIUI FCC would not require GSM on 377s for the same reason that SN do.

The Victoria 377 problem is GSM, yes, sure, but it is for postioning
for SDO.

FCC/TL *won't be using SDO ... they do not use it anywhere on their
network pre-KO0

Yes they will!! The 377/5s are Southern units, built to Southern
specifications. Whether FCC need SDO is not relevant! One thing we
found on Southern when the 377s came in was that an 8 car 455 station
wax not an 8 car 377 station, e.g Mitcham Jnc & Battersea Park

Why do they have to use SDO? The 377s would have to be programmed with
the station details for the FCC routes (at least London Bridge / Herne
Hill - Bedford) and this will involve surveying all the stations and
sorting out protocols for dealing with the underground stations, it
may be less work to just decommission the SDO whilst the units are
with FCC, especially if there is no location where the SDO will be
needed. The 377/5s are going to be on loan until at least 2013 and
maybe all the way to 2015, depending on deliveries of the new
Thameslink stock.

On Mar 20, 7:58 am, Standing at HN28 signal
wrote:

FCC/TL won't be using SDO ... they do not use it anywhere on their
network pre-KO0

Yes they will!! The 377/5s are Southern units, built to Southern
specifications. Whether FCC need SDO is not relevant!



) not often I have to comment on one of your respected posts HH28 -
but what I wrote was ''FCC/TL won't be *using* SDO''.

I think I am correct in that, and your comment does not appear to me
to say anywhere FCC/TL are using it, only that the units are
equipped.

Surely that is not so much relevant as THE key point I was respondong
to ... that the Victoria 377 delay sceanrio will not arise at SPILL .

Or can you tell me where FCC/TL will be using SDO underground, and
why ?

--
Nick

On 20 Mar, 11:08, wrote:
On Mar 20, 7:58 am, Standing at HN28 signal
wrote:

FCC/TL *won't be using SDO ... they do not use it anywhere on their
network pre-KO0
Yes they will!! The 377/5s are Southern units, built to Southern
specifications. Whether FCC need SDO is not relevant!

) not often I have to comment on one of your respected posts HH28 -
but what I wrote was ''FCC/TL won't be *using* SDO''.

I think I am correct in that, and your comment does not appear to me
to say anywhere FCC/TL are using it, only that the units are
equipped.

Surely that is not so much relevant as THE key point I was respondong
to ... that the Victoria 377 delay sceanrio will not arise at SPILL .

Or can you tell me where FCC/TL will be using SDO underground, and
why ?
With 377s all stations are SDO, so if a 16 car called at a 12 car
platform then the rear 4 won't open.. The train is designed such that
the doors won't release unless I) the train has a GPS fix and knows
what station it is at or ii) an emergency release is given by the
driver. SDO (I doubt) cannot just be disabled as it is integral part
of how the units function.

On Mar 22, 2:17*am, Standing at HN28 signal
wrote:
On 20 Mar, 11:08, wrote:



On Mar 20, 7:58 am, Standing at HN28 signal
wrote:

FCC/TL *won't be using SDO ... they do not use it anywhere on their
network pre-KO0
Yes they will!! The 377/5s are Southern units, built to Southern
specifications. Whether FCC need SDO is not relevant!

) not often I have to comment on one of your respected posts HH28 -
but what I wrote was ''FCC/TL won't be *using* SDO''.

I think I am correct in that, and your comment does not appear to me
to say anywhere FCC/TL are using it, only that the units are
equipped.

Surely that is not so much relevant as THE key point I was respondong
to ... that the Victoria 377 delay sceanrio will not arise at SPILL .

Or can you tell me where FCC/TL will be using SDO underground, and
why ?

With 377s all stations are SDO, so if a 16 car called at a 12 car
platform then the rear 4 won't open.. The train is designed such that
the doors won't release unless I) the train has a GPS fix and knows
what station it is at or ii) an emergency release is given by the
driver. SDO (I doubt) cannot just be disabled as it is integral part
of how the units function.

The GPS part of SDO is not an integral part of how the units function,
it is just a section of the trains' computer programming which limits
which doors that can be opened. The question is how easy it is to
remove the GPS controlled part of program on the 377s as even option
ii) in your list will be too long for the 377s on the Thameslink route
(with several underground stations).

On 22 Mar, 10:38, wrote:
On Mar 22, 2:17*am, Standing at HN28 signal
wrote:





On 20 Mar, 11:08, wrote:

On Mar 20, 7:58 am, Standing at HN28 signal
wrote:

FCC/TL *won't be using SDO ... they do not use it anywhere on their
network pre-KO0
Yes they will!! The 377/5s are Southern units, built to Southern
specifications. Whether FCC need SDO is not relevant!

) not often I have to comment on one of your respected posts HH28 -
but what I wrote was ''FCC/TL won't be *using* SDO''.

I think I am correct in that, and your comment does not appear to me
to say anywhere FCC/TL are using it, only that the units are
equipped.

Surely that is not so much relevant as THE key point I was respondong
to ... that the Victoria 377 delay sceanrio will not arise at SPILL .

Or can you tell me where FCC/TL will be using SDO underground, and
why ?

With 377s all stations are SDO, so if a 16 car called at a 12 car
platform then the rear 4 won't open.. The train is designed such that
the doors won't release unless I) the train has a GPS fix and knows
what station it is at or ii) an emergency release is given by the
driver. SDO (I doubt) cannot just be disabled as it is integral part
of how the units function.

The GPS part of SDO is not an integral part of how the units function,
it is just a section of the trains' computer programming which limits
which doors that can be opened. The question is how easy it is to
remove the GPS controlled part of program on the 377s as even option
ii) in your list will be too long for the 377s on the Thameslink route
(with several underground stations).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The GPS will be working with 377/5, as it will with the 377/2s on
loan. "Bayliss(es)" have been installed at St Pancras (upstairs and
downstairs) Farringdon and City Thameslink. I belive they may also be
in at Blackfriars (not sure). I am not techie, but they effictively
transmit to the trains GPS and confirm the trains doors can open.
Whether or not these are as quick as the train seeing satelites I have
no idea. I believe that there are still issues at Victoria (SN) with
getting these installed. Again, this may have happened now as I have
not been up there for a while on 377s.

I do wonder whether there will be some locations on the Chatham main
line or the Maidstone route that will prove troublesome over the
coming week.


Richard

On Mar 22, 12:43 pm, Fat richard wrote:


On Mar 22, 2:17 am, Standing at HN28 signal


Thankyou HH28 and Richard for the information and explanations., I
withdraw my objection )

--
Nick

On Mar 22, 12:43*pm, Fat richard wrote:
On 22 Mar, 10:38, wrote:





On Mar 22, 2:17*am, Standing at HN28 signal
wrote:

On 20 Mar, 11:08, wrote:

On Mar 20, 7:58 am, Standing at HN28 signal
wrote:

FCC/TL *won't be using SDO ... they do not use it anywhere on their
network pre-KO0
Yes they will!! The 377/5s are Southern units, built to Southern
specifications. Whether FCC need SDO is not relevant!

) not often I have to comment on one of your respected posts HH28 -
but what I wrote was ''FCC/TL won't be *using* SDO''.

I think I am correct in that, and your comment does not appear to me
to say anywhere FCC/TL are using it, only that the units are
equipped.

Surely that is not so much relevant as THE key point I was respondong
to ... that the Victoria 377 delay sceanrio will not arise at SPILL

Thanks for that Richard (I think you mean Balise(s), assuming that
they use the same spelling as the TVM 430 CTRL signalling system). It
will be interesting to see how quick the system is, as the difference
between a balise and GPS is that with GPS the train always knows where
it is, whereas with a balise, it only know where it is when it is near
the balise. It was obviously less hassle to install the trackside kit
than to reprogram and recertify the units, although the trains will
still have to have been loaded with the relevant SDO information for
all of the 'Thameslink' lines.

Victoria still had a ~15sec delay on door opening last weekend.

I do wonder whether there will be some locations on the Chatham main
line or the Maidstone route that will prove troublesome over the
coming week.

Richard





Were I to be delayed for more than one minute, I would construe this as a
danger to my safety and A. pull the emergency alarm with legitimate reason
for seeking emergency assistance, and possibly B. activate the emergency
door release were I not to be undetained after a further one minute.

I think it highly unreasonable and unlawful for railway operators to
unnecessarily delay and detain the public in this fashion.

How hard can it be for a lowly scum bag railway employee to press a door
open button, a function which the industry has done for more than 50 years,
without delay and techo-ineptitude?