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Railcard changes w.e.f. 17/05/09
[Crossposted to utl; original thread in uk.r]
"Paul Harley" wrote From Newsrail Express 390: Price Changes from 17 May 2009 [useful details snipped] Just for clarification, does the (e.g. Senior) railcard discount for ('inboundary') off-peak day travelcards continue? If so, how much will an 'all-zones' (1-6) railcard-discounted off-peak day travelcard cost? [Yes, I know 1-6 isn't really all the zones, but you know what I mean...] |
Railcard changes w.e.f. 17/05/09
On Apr 22, 11:49*pm, "John Salmon" wrote: [Crossposted to utl; original thread in uk.r] "Paul Harley" wrote From Newsrail Express 390: Price Changes from 17 May 2009 [useful details snipped] Just for clarification, does the (e.g. Senior) railcard discount for ('inboundary') off-peak day travelcards continue? *If so, how much will an 'all-zones' (1-6) railcard-discounted off-peak day travelcard cost? [Yes, I know 1-6 isn't really all the zones, but you know what I mean...] There's no mention of any changes to the existing arrangements for Railcard-discounted inboundary Off-peak Day Travelcards, just a mention that there won't be a discount available to inboundary *Anytime* Day Travelcards as there will be for their outboundary equivalents. So I surmise that they continue - there'd be a small riot if this discount suddenly disappeared! (In particular amongst 16-25 Railcard holders whom I suspect make up the majority of such purchases.) (Which leads me to wondering about whether it'd be worthwhile for some suitably located borderline folk to head out to an outboundary station rather than an inboundary one so as to get the discount - certainly it has been mentioned that GroupSave can make doing just that worthwhile, as it doesn't apply to journeys wholly within the London zones. And this all leads me on to pondering about purchasing tickets online for journeys from outboundary stations collection to take advantage of Railcard discounts/ GroupSave, and then collecting them at local inboundary London stations... hmm, interesting!) TTBOMK the price of a Railcard-discounted Off-peak Day Travelcard has only ever gone up in January - i.e. at the same time as the annual price rise of Day Travelcards - though bizarrely it seems to follow its own course somewhat, as it stayed £4.80 for at least a couple of years, though it's now £5.00. (Incidentally this £5 price is cheaper than the level of any Oyster PAYG cap that includes Tube travel in zone 1 - e.g. the zone 1&2 cap is £5.10. However this is only really of benefit to Network Railcard holders during weekends and bank holidays, as holders of 16-25 and Senior Railcards can get a discount entitlement loaded onto their Oyster cards which means they can take advantage of discounted Oyster daily caps, and the Network Railcard minimum fare of £10 - to be £13 - means inboundary Day Travelcards don't cost enough to be discounted.) |
Railcard changes w.e.f. 17/05/09
On Apr 23, 12:57*am, Mizter T wrote:
TTBOMK the price of a Railcard-discounted Off-peak Day Travelcard has only ever gone up in January - i.e. at the same time as the annual price rise of Day Travelcards - though bizarrely it seems to follow its own course somewhat, as it stayed £4.80 for at least a couple of years, though it's now £5.00. I bought one today from a tube station, and it was £4.90 for z1-6. Are the ones from NR stations slightly more expensive to cover z1-9? |
Railcard changes w.e.f. 17/05/09
On Apr 23, 1:38*pm, Martin Deutsch wrote: On Apr 23, 12:57*am, Mizter T wrote: TTBOMK the price of a Railcard-discounted Off-peak Day Travelcard has only ever gone up in January - i.e. at the same time as the annual price rise of Day Travelcards - though bizarrely it seems to follow its own course somewhat, as it stayed £4.80 for at least a couple of years, though it's now £5.00. I bought one today from a tube station, and it was £4.90 for z1-6. Are the ones from NR stations slightly more expensive to cover z1-9? How very bizarre - those bought from NR stations only ever cover zones 1-6. It used to be the case that Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards bought from LU stations had zones A-D (on the Met line) thrown in 'for free' - these days if you want it with zones 7-9 from an LU ticket office then it costs more (though is still Railcard discounted). I'm not sure when this changed - perhaps in Nov '07 when London Overground took over and zones 7-9 were introduced, perhaps it was in the fares revision of January '08, I'm not sure. But I am surprised by what you say. I can only think that it's a mistake - what Railcard did you use? Not that I think it makes a difference whatsoever - LU tickets merely have "Railcard discounted" wording or similar printed on them as opposed to the specific type of Railcard used. |
Railcard changes w.e.f. 17/05/09
On Apr 23, 5:39*pm, Mizter T wrote:
How very bizarre - those bought from NR stations only ever cover zones 1-6. It used to be the case that Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards bought from LU stations had zones A-D (on the Met line) thrown in 'for free' - these days if you want it with zones 7-9 from an LU ticket office then it costs more (though is still Railcard discounted). I'm not sure when this changed - perhaps in Nov '07 when London Overground took over and zones 7-9 were introduced, perhaps it was in the fares revision of January '08, I'm not sure. Tickets from Amersham or Bushey can be purchased to all zones and are issued on route RRR ZONES R789 allowing travel to 7-9. These are railcard discountable. |
Railcard changes w.e.f. 17/05/09
On Apr 23, 6:05*pm, Tom wrote:
On Apr 23, 5:39*pm, Mizter T wrote: How very bizarre - those bought from NR stations only ever cover zones 1-6. It used to be the case that Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards bought from LU stations had zones A-D (on the Met line) thrown in 'for free' - these days if you want it with zones 7-9 from an LU ticket office then it costs more (though is still Railcard discounted). I'm not sure when this changed - perhaps in Nov '07 when London Overground took over and zones 7-9 were introduced, perhaps it was in the fares revision of January '08, I'm not sure. Tickets from Amersham or Bushey can be purchased to all zones and are issued on route RRR ZONES R789 allowing travel to 7-9. These are railcard discountable. Apologies, you are of course correct. Bushey does however have a bit of a split personality, as it is a London Overground station - and LO sits somewhat awkwardly in both the National Rail and the LU ticketing systems. Tickets issued in the manner you state are also available from Carpenders Park (zone 7) and Watford High Street (zone 8) - and I understand that Travelcards issued at Watford Jn (which is outside the zones) also now have validity in zones 7-9 (with something like "Zones 789" appearing in the route field). Not sure if London Midland do this at any of their other stations further north? (Amersham meanwhile is an LU station.) |
Railcard changes w.e.f. 17/05/09
On Apr 23, 5:39*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On Apr 23, 1:38*pm, Martin Deutsch wrote: On Apr 23, 12:57*am, Mizter T wrote: TTBOMK the price of a Railcard-discounted Off-peak Day Travelcard has only ever gone up in January - i.e. at the same time as the annual price rise of Day Travelcards - though bizarrely it seems to follow its own course somewhat, as it stayed £4.80 for at least a couple of years, though it's now £5.00. I bought one today from a tube station, and it was £4.90 for z1-6. Are the ones from NR stations slightly more expensive to cover z1-9? How very bizarre - those bought from NR stations only ever cover zones 1-6. It used to be the case that Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards bought from LU stations had zones A-D (on the Met line) thrown in 'for free' - these days if you want it with zones 7-9 from an LU ticket office then it costs more (though is still Railcard discounted). I'm not sure when this changed - perhaps in Nov '07 when London Overground took over and zones 7-9 were introduced, perhaps it was in the fares revision of January '08, I'm not sure. But I am surprised by what you say. I can only think that it's a mistake - what Railcard did you use? Not that I think it makes a difference whatsoever - LU tickets merely have "Railcard discounted" wording or similar printed on them as opposed to the specific type of Railcard used. Ah, you're right about them formerly including A-D, while the NR ones didn't - I think I had it the other way around in my head. I'm pretty certain the Travelcard is no mistake though! It's not the first one I've got for that price recently either, and this one is from an entirely different tube ticket office. I used a 16-25 railcard. The wording on the ticket is 'Reduced trvlcd std', with a big R. Incidentally, the discounted z1-6 PAYG cap is £4.60, but that's not a lot of use when you need to go on trains in south London... |
Railcard changes w.e.f. 17/05/09
On Apr 23, 7:29*pm, Martin Deutsch wrote: On Apr 23, 5:39*pm, Mizter T wrote: On Apr 23, 1:38*pm, Martin Deutsch wrote: On Apr 23, 12:57*am, Mizter T wrote: TTBOMK the price of a Railcard-discounted Off-peak Day Travelcard has only ever gone up in January - i.e. at the same time as the annual price rise of Day Travelcards - though bizarrely it seems to follow its own course somewhat, as it stayed £4.80 for at least a couple of years, though it's now £5.00. I bought one today from a tube station, and it was £4.90 for z1-6. Are the ones from NR stations slightly more expensive to cover z1-9? How very bizarre - those bought from NR stations only ever cover zones 1-6. It used to be the case that Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards bought from LU stations had zones A-D (on the Met line) thrown in 'for free' - these days if you want it with zones 7-9 from an LU ticket office then it costs more (though is still Railcard discounted). I'm not sure when this changed - perhaps in Nov '07 when London Overground took over and zones 7-9 were introduced, perhaps it was in the fares revision of January '08, I'm not sure. But I am surprised by what you say. I can only think that it's a mistake - what Railcard did you use? Not that I think it makes a difference whatsoever - LU tickets merely have "Railcard discounted" wording or similar printed on them as opposed to the specific type of Railcard used. Ah, you're right about them formerly including A-D, while the NR ones didn't - I think I had it the other way around in my head. I'm pretty certain the Travelcard is no mistake though! It's not the first one I've got for that price recently either, and this one is from an entirely different tube ticket office. I used a 16-25 railcard. The wording on the ticket is 'Reduced trvlcd std', with a big R. I shall have to try buying one for myself from an LU station then. Unless I've gone mad the price of the Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards I've bought from NR stations lately has been £5.00. I can't think why LU would charge a different price! (Unless LU round things down, and NR rounds them up - but that doesn't make any sense as two-thirds of £7.50 - the full price of a z1-6 Day Travelcard - is bang on £5.00.) The strange mysteries of ticketing... Incidentally, the discounted z1-6 PAYG cap is £4.60, but that's not a lot of use when you need to go on trains in south London... True. PAYG is coming to NR though! (...eventually...) |
Railcard changes w.e.f. 17/05/09
"Mizter T" wrote
I shall have to try buying one for myself from an LU station then. Unless I've gone mad the price of the Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards I've bought from NR stations lately has been £5.00. I can't think why LU would charge a different price! (Unless LU round things down, and NR rounds them up - but that doesn't make any sense as two-thirds of £7.50 - the full price of a z1-6 Day Travelcard - is bang on £5.00.) The strange mysteries of ticketing... The railcard discount is 34%, i.e. slightly more than one-third, so the rounding up/down theory *may* be correct. I have a feeling that the £4.90/£5.00 discrepancy between LU and "NR" has been mentioned before on uk.r or utl, but I could be wrong. You are right that (at least some) National Rail stations charge £5.00; I haven't bought one from LU recently. |
Railcard changes w.e.f. 17/05/09
"John Salmon" wrote in message ... "Mizter T" wrote I shall have to try buying one for myself from an LU station then. Unless I've gone mad the price of the Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards I've bought from NR stations lately has been £5.00. I can't think why LU would charge a different price! (Unless LU round things down, and NR rounds them up - but that doesn't make any sense as two-thirds of £7.50 - the full price of a z1-6 Day Travelcard - is bang on £5.00.) The strange mysteries of ticketing... The railcard discount is 34%, i.e. slightly more than one-third, so the rounding up/down theory *may* be correct. I have a feeling that the £4.90/£5.00 discrepancy between LU and "NR" has been mentioned before on uk.r or utl, but I could be wrong. You are right that (at least some) National Rail stations charge £5.00; I haven't bought one from LU recently. Has LU started offering railcard discounts recently? Every time I've tried to buy a Z1-6 Day Travelcard with my disabled railcard I've been told that LU don't do them so I normally to buy them from NR stations. If this is now the case however do you get more for your money if you buy one from LU? Regards Andrew Wilson |
Railcard changes w.e.f. 17/05/09
"Andrew Wilson" wrote in message
... "John Salmon" wrote in message ... "Mizter T" wrote I shall have to try buying one for myself from an LU station then. Unless I've gone mad the price of the Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards I've bought from NR stations lately has been £5.00. I can't think why LU would charge a different price! (Unless LU round things down, and NR rounds them up - but that doesn't make any sense as two-thirds of £7.50 - the full price of a z1-6 Day Travelcard - is bang on £5.00.) The strange mysteries of ticketing... The railcard discount is 34%, i.e. slightly more than one-third, so the rounding up/down theory *may* be correct. I have a feeling that the £4.90/£5.00 discrepancy between LU and "NR" has been mentioned before on uk.r or utl, but I could be wrong. You are right that (at least some) National Rail stations charge £5.00; I haven't bought one from LU recently. Has LU started offering railcard discounts recently? Every time I've tried to buy a Z1-6 Day Travelcard with my disabled railcard I've been told that LU don't do them so I normally to buy them from NR stations. If this is now the case however do you get more for your money if you buy one from LU? I'm not sure about 'recently' and I'm not sure how consistent it is across the whole of LU. I've certainly bought a Senior Railcard discounted Travelcard at Cockfosters (after driving there from Retford); at one time, as you're suggesting, it was difficult/impossible to get railcard discounts at LU stations. I expect someone will be along soon with the facts... |
Railcard changes w.e.f. 17/05/09
On Apr 24, 1:45*am, "Andrew Wilson" wrote: "John Salmon" wrote: "Mizter T" wrote I shall have to try buying one for myself from an LU station then. Unless I've gone mad the price of the Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards I've bought from NR stations lately has been £5.00. I can't think why LU would charge a different price! (Unless LU round things down, and NR rounds them up - but that doesn't make any sense as two-thirds of £7.50 - the full price of a z1-6 Day Travelcard - is bang on £5.00.) The strange mysteries of ticketing... The railcard discount is 34%, i.e. slightly more than one-third, so the rounding up/down theory *may* be correct. *I have a feeling that the £4.90/£5.00 discrepancy between LU and "NR" has been mentioned before on uk.r or utl, but I could be wrong. *You are right that (at least some) National Rail stations charge £5.00; I haven't bought one from LU recently. Has LU started offering railcard discounts recently? Every time I've tried to buy a Z1-6 Day Travelcard with my disabled railcard I've been told that LU don't do them so I normally to buy them from NR stations. If this is now the case however do you get more for your money if you buy one from LU? Regards Andrew Wilson No, LU stations have always offered them - or at least they have for many many years. However this fact is notably absent from any Railcard literature - indeed some Railcard publicity specifically states that you can't get discounted tickets from LU ticket offices whatsoever, which is just plain misleading - see: http://www.16-25railcard.co.uk/faqs/validity#9 ---quote--- 9. Can I use my Railcard for tickets for travel on the London Underground? All discounted rail tickets bought using your Railcard routed 'between London termini' are valid for cross-London transfer on the London Underground. Off-Peak Day Travelcards (All Zones only) are also available, subject to a minimum fare. Please note, however, that you cannot use your Railcard to obtain a discount when purchasing tickets from a London Underground booking office. If you have an Oyster card, you can get your Railcard discount loaded on to your Oyster card to save 1/3 on the daily cap on pay as you go. ---/quote--- I'd expect the problem is that LU ticket office staff are really not au fait with Railcards, which is why you've not had much success. FWIW a ticket clerk at an LU station almost refused to sell me a discounted Day Travelcard when I presented a Network Railcard recently, as they were insistent that I needed to present my photocard and were convinced that all Railcards come with accompanying photocards, which is just plain not true - only 16-25 Railcards require photos. I suspect that 16-25 Railcards are the one's that they come across most of the time. You don't get any more for your money if you buy one from LU, though you used to - until recently LU would issued Railcard-discounted Travelcards for zones 1-D, that is z1-6 plus zones A-D which encompassed the extremities of the Metropolitan line (zones A-D were effectively thrown in 'for free'). However zones A-D have since been incorporated into zones 7-9, which were introduced at the same time as London Overground took over from Silverlink Metro (on the Watford-Euston DC line Carpenders Park, Bushey and Watford High Street are now within zones 7 and 8). At around the same time LU ticket offices started issuing two separate Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards - the standard one for zones 1-6, and a slightly more expensive one for zones 1-9. London Overground ticket offices should also be able to issue Day Travelcards (both discounted and full-price) for zones 1-9 (indeed cheaper full-price versions are available that omit zone 1). AFAIAA other National Rail ticket offices don't do this, apart I think from London Midland - but then perhaps only at Watford Jn and Euston (though maybe at other stations north of Watford too, though given that the world ends north of Watford there are some metaphysical difficulties with this notion!). HTH. |
Railcard changes w.e.f. 17/05/09
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Railcard changes w.e.f. 17/05/09
"John Salmon" wrote in
: "Andrew Wilson" wrote in message ... Has LU started offering railcard discounts recently? Every time I've tried to buy a Z1-6 Day Travelcard with my disabled railcard I've been told that LU don't do them so I normally to buy them from NR stations. If this is now the case however do you get more for your money if you buy one from LU? I'm not sure about 'recently' and I'm not sure how consistent it is across the whole of LU. I've certainly bought a Senior Railcard discounted Travelcard at Cockfosters (after driving there from Retford); at one time, as you're suggesting, it was difficult/impossible to get railcard discounts at LU stations. I expect someone will be along soon with the facts... I've never had a problem buying one from an LU ticket office, but you do need to find a station with an open ticket office as the LU's machines don't sell them. David |
Railcard changes w.e.f. 17/05/09
I bought a zone 1-2 off-peak travelcard on a weekend from a ticket
machine at Clapham Junction, selected the Network Railcard discount and got it for £5. I only needed 1-2 but presume if I'd selected the 1-6 zones one it still would have been £5? And given that Clapham Junction is a London Overground station if I went to the ticket office, would they sell me one for £4.90!? |
Railcard changes w.e.f. 17/05/09
On Apr 30, 10:42*am, stan5001 wrote: I bought a zone 1-2 off-peak travelcard on a weekend from a ticket machine at Clapham Junction, selected the Network Railcard discount and got it for £5. I only needed 1-2 but presume if I'd selected the 1-6 zones one it still would have been £5? Take a look at the ticket if you've still got it - I'm 99.9% certain it would've been issued as as a zones 1-6 Day Travelcard (indeed when using the Scheidt & Bachmann ticket machines, as soon as you select a Railcard discount then the zones covered jumps from z1&2 to z1-6). And given that Clapham Junction is a London Overground station if I went to the ticket office, would they sell me one for £4.90!? No - the ticket office and ticket machines are run by South West Trains. Furthermore, I rather suspect that if you were to buy a Railcard- discounted Day Travelcard from a London Overground ticket office or ticket machine it too would cost £5.00, as LO use 'National Rail standard' ticket issuing systems. It does seem remarkably daft that LU can't manage to sell these tickets for the same price as 'National Rail' does - it introduces a completely unnecessary confusion factor where there's absolutely no need for one. |
Railcard changes w.e.f. 17/05/09
No, it was definitely z1-2 (I assumed that it upon selecting a
railcard discount it would do as you suggested and print a z1-6 card...). Question now is can I really be mad enough to wonder up to Clapham Common station to save myself 10p this weekend... |
Railcard changes w.e.f. 17/05/09
On Apr 30, 2:47*pm, stan5001 wrote: No, it was definitely z1-2 (I assumed that it upon selecting a railcard discount it would do as you suggested and print a z1-6 card...). My apologies then - SWT's S&B ticket machines appear to have been programmed differently (i.e. more stupidly) to those I've used on Southeastern. They really should just spew out a z1-6 Day Travelcard - technically speaking there's no such product as a Railcard discounted z1&2 (or indeed z1-4 or z2-6) Day Travelcard. It wouldn't however be the first time that a ticket vending machine was badly configured. Question now is can I really be mad enough to wonder up to Clapham Common station to save myself 10p this weekend... Ha! (Go for it - the walk'll do you good!) Not so long ago I had difficulty getting a discounted Day Travelcard at an LU station with a Network Railcard - the ticket clerk was insistent that it needed an accompanying photocard (ala a 16-25 Railcard). I evidently looked exasperated enough that they issued it after a moment or two of being obstinate. |
Railcard changes w.e.f. 17/05/09
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