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Journey history with a Bank problem?
As of today 7 May my Oyster journey history is showing only to 29
April ("it normally takes 48 hours for journeys to be added to your statement") with a Entry in Notting Hill Gate £4 gobbled, to leave £2.90 and no exit. The exit was Bank within the 2hr limit. Some previous journeys also involving Bank as entry and exit are also wrong. Has the station had a credit crunch? It seems weird that my merry trips (Ladbroke Grove, White City, KingsX, and several buses) all show but Bank is last there on the 20th despite being visited as part of all those journeys. Methinks a puzzling phone call will need to be made. No, I didn't vault the gates at Bank. -- Old anti-spam address cmylod at despammed dot com appears broke So back to cmylod at bigfoot dot com |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
"Colum Mylod" wrote in message
As of today 7 May my Oyster journey history is showing only to 29 April ("it normally takes 48 hours for journeys to be added to your statement") with a Entry in Notting Hill Gate £4 gobbled, to leave £2.90 and no exit. The exit was Bank within the 2hr limit. Some previous journeys also involving Bank as entry and exit are also wrong. Has the station had a credit crunch? It seems weird that my merry trips (Ladbroke Grove, White City, KingsX, and several buses) all show but Bank is last there on the 20th despite being visited as part of all those journeys. Methinks a puzzling phone call will need to be made. No, I didn't vault the gates at Bank. I'm also finding a lot of missed journeys or missing entry/exit points in my Oyster journey history over the last few weeks. But when I did a full check, the balance is correct. So I'm guessing that the underlying transaction system is working properly, but the reporting is broken. |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
On May 7, 9:48 pm, "Recliner" wrote: "Colum Mylod" wrote: As of today 7 May my Oyster journey history is showing only to 29 April ("it normally takes 48 hours for journeys to be added to your statement") with a Entry in Notting Hill Gate £4 gobbled, to leave £2.90 and no exit. The exit was Bank within the 2hr limit. Some previous journeys also involving Bank as entry and exit are also wrong. Has the station had a credit crunch? It seems weird that my merry trips (Ladbroke Grove, White City, KingsX, and several buses) all show but Bank is last there on the 20th despite being visited as part of all those journeys. Methinks a puzzling phone call will need to be made. No, I didn't vault the gates at Bank. I'm also finding a lot of missed journeys or missing entry/exit points in my Oyster journey history over the last few weeks. But when I did a full check, the balance is correct. So I'm guessing that the underlying transaction system is working properly, but the reporting is broken. This problem has cropped up beforehand - for whatever reason the online journey history (via the web account) can get out of sync with the data held on the central Oyster database. And it's the transactions held on the central Oyster database that's the definitive record. If you look at the journey history on a touchscreen Tube ticket machine (which is most of them these days) then you can see your recent journey history - specifically the last eight or ten journeys, depending on the type of ticket machine - and this screen will also flag up any unresolved journeys (i.e. those that you'd get charged £4 for). I'd be prepared to bet that if you were to do this you wouldn't find that you'd been overcharged - in other words, the problem is with the online journey history. I'm wondering if it's possibly connected to the upgrade of the PAYG system, and thus a resulting upgrade of the online journey history system. Note that I'm not making any excuses though - it's certainly not good enough, not least because it just ends up leaving punters confused. |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
"Mizter T" wrote in message
On May 7, 9:48 pm, "Recliner" wrote: "Colum Mylod" wrote: As of today 7 May my Oyster journey history is showing only to 29 April ("it normally takes 48 hours for journeys to be added to your statement") with a Entry in Notting Hill Gate £4 gobbled, to leave £2.90 and no exit. The exit was Bank within the 2hr limit. Some previous journeys also involving Bank as entry and exit are also wrong. Has the station had a credit crunch? It seems weird that my merry trips (Ladbroke Grove, White City, KingsX, and several buses) all show but Bank is last there on the 20th despite being visited as part of all those journeys. Methinks a puzzling phone call will need to be made. No, I didn't vault the gates at Bank. I'm also finding a lot of missed journeys or missing entry/exit points in my Oyster journey history over the last few weeks. But when I did a full check, the balance is correct. So I'm guessing that the underlying transaction system is working properly, but the reporting is broken. This problem has cropped up beforehand - for whatever reason the online journey history (via the web account) can get out of sync with the data held on the central Oyster database. And it's the transactions held on the central Oyster database that's the definitive record. If you look at the journey history on a touchscreen Tube ticket machine (which is most of them these days) then you can see your recent journey history - specifically the last eight or ten journeys, depending on the type of ticket machine - and this screen will also flag up any unresolved journeys (i.e. those that you'd get charged £4 for). I'd be prepared to bet that if you were to do this you wouldn't find that you'd been overcharged - in other words, the problem is with the online journey history. I'm wondering if it's possibly connected to the upgrade of the PAYG system, and thus a resulting upgrade of the online journey history system. Note that I'm not making any excuses though - it's certainly not good enough, not least because it just ends up leaving punters confused. Yes, I thought it must be something like that. But given that this is possibly a common fault, perhaps there should be an on-line warning of potential errors, together with a simple way of reporting them? Certainly, my first reaction was that there must have been some expensive unresolved journeys, but it appears not. But I needed to do some spreadsheet work to be sure. |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
I will be able to re-verify the card's records at a machine this
evening. Thanks for the good answers. Unfortunately for me, I use the JH for expense claims (and even to remember where I was on some whacky weeks, and if a journey was £2.20 peak or £1.60 off peak - the difference does add up). The current malaise appears to be worse than the old long-gap but at least *consistent* updates. -- Old anti-spam address cmylod at despammed dot com appears broke So back to cmylod at bigfoot dot com |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
Certainly, my first reaction was that there must have been some expensive unresolved journeys, but it appears not. But I needed to do some spreadsheet work to be sure. I've also suffered missing entries, but with a correct overall balance. Am I alone in thinking that the online display is unnecessarily confusing? The "Fare" column doesn't actually show the fare for a journey (except for a bus) - it shows debits and credits. I'm interested in your spreadsheet - does anyone have anything that you can just paste the journey history into and it actually shows the fares charged?? Tim |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
On May 8, 6:29*am, Colum Mylod wrote:
I will be able to re-verify the card's records at a machine this evening. Thanks for the good answers. Unfortunately for me, I use the JH for expense claims (and even to remember where I was on some whacky weeks, and if a journey was £2.20 peak or £1.60 off peak - the difference does add up). I'm sure you're already aware that tube ticket offices can give you a printout of your last 8 journeys, which should do the trick for expenses claims. I noticed lately that White City has been missing from my online journey history since April 19th. Wood Lane hasn't shown up for a recent entry, but the auto top-up did register there. I emailed Oyster Online support to ask if they knew what the problem was, but they took six weeks to reply to me last time, so I'm not holding my breath. |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
"Martin Deutsch" wrote in message
On May 8, 6:29 am, Colum Mylod wrote: I will be able to re-verify the card's records at a machine this evening. Thanks for the good answers. Unfortunately for me, I use the JH for expense claims (and even to remember where I was on some whacky weeks, and if a journey was £2.20 peak or £1.60 off peak - the difference does add up). I'm sure you're already aware that tube ticket offices can give you a printout of your last 8 journeys, which should do the trick for expenses claims. I noticed lately that White City has been missing from my online journey history since April 19th. Wood Lane hasn't shown up for a recent entry, but the auto top-up did register there. I emailed Oyster Online support to ask if they knew what the problem was, but they took six weeks to reply to me last time, so I'm not holding my breath. As a matter of interest, is there anyone whose on-line Oyster journey history contains no omissions at all? |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
On Fri, 8 May 2009 15:45:12 +0100, "Recliner"
wrote: "Martin Deutsch" wrote in message ... I'm sure you're already aware that tube ticket offices can give you a printout of your last 8 journeys, which should do the trick for expenses claims. If you can get to a ticket office when it's staffed, and don't make new journeys in the meantime that push the unclaimed ones off the list-of-8! Which can happen to me. I wish TfL would do an "Amsterdam" and put a printer into the top-up machines a la OV-kaart. I use snapper plugin in Firefox to grab the journey history and upload it. A printout means a scan, though the printout is clearer (which can be a disadvantage when claiming! All those £4 debits look good.) As a matter of interest, is there anyone whose on-line Oyster journey history contains no omissions at all? Mine was pretty good (not noticing omissions) up to March. Delayed maybe: from yesterday to perhaps 2 weeks delay in showing up. It turns out that my card's balance is correct, but Bank has indeed gone missing from the JH. TFL are missing another trick he there's no point worrying all of us when a simple professional status web page would suffice. It would cause fewer calls to their call centre. -- Old anti-spam address cmylod at despammed dot com appears broke So back to cmylod at bigfoot dot com |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
On May 8, 1:59*pm, Martin Deutsch wrote:
I noticed lately that White City has been missing from my online journey history since April 19th. Wood Lane hasn't shown up for a recent entry, but the auto top-up did register there. I emailed Oyster Online support to ask if they knew what the problem was, but they took six weeks to reply to me last time, so I'm not holding my breath. TfL's response has been to, er, send me a PDF of my complete journey history for the past three months. Useful all the same, but not exactly answering my question! |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
On May 10, 8:13*pm, Martin Deutsch wrote:
On May 8, 1:59*pm, Martin Deutsch wrote: I noticed lately that White City has been missing from my online journey history since April 19th. Wood Lane hasn't shown up for a recent entry, but the auto top-up did register there. I emailed Oyster Online support to ask if they knew what the problem was, but they took six weeks to reply to me last time, so I'm not holding my breath. TfL's response has been to, er, send me a PDF of my complete journey history for the past three months. Useful all the same, but not exactly answering my question! and to reply to myself yet again - I should mention that the White City touches in and out are showing up on the full listings. |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
On Thu, 7 May 2009 22:35:08 +0100,
Recliner wrote: "Mizter T" wrote in message I'd be prepared to bet that if you were to do this you wouldn't find that you'd been overcharged - in other words, the problem is with the online journey history. I'm wondering if it's possibly connected to the upgrade of the PAYG system, and thus a resulting upgrade of the online journey history system. Note that I'm not making any excuses though - it's certainly not good enough, not least because it just ends up leaving punters confused. Yes, I thought it must be something like that. But given that this is possibly a common fault, perhaps there should be an on-line warning of potential errors, together with a simple way of reporting them? Certainly, my first reaction was that there must have been some expensive unresolved journeys, but it appears not. But I needed to do some spreadsheet work to be sure. I don't think I've had a correct day on the journey history since end of March. Below is the current mess that it has for my journey history. Currently it appears that Euston is not registering at all except for Auto top-up. Also the pricing appears to have gone weird - why I'm being debited 1.50 when I exit at Watford - which implies I'm being charged 2.00 at entry at Euston. I think it should be 5.00 debit at Euston followed by 1.50 credit at Watford. Previously to that it was Watford Junction that stopped registering at all. It's extremely hard confirm it's correct because there are days missing - e.g. nothing has registered from Moorgate entry on 17/04 to Watford Junction entry on 22/04 but there must have been at least 15GBP of journeys for the Auto top-up to have triggered. Because I sometimes travel before 06:30, sometimes don't do a normal journey - e.g. that 17/04 day where I did WJ-Moorgate; Moorgate-Euston - and I don't keep a record of exactly when I travel where. I know for a fact that occasionally exits can fail to register (I believe it has happened on entry as well but I can only be 99% sure). It's happened to my girlfriend the very first journey she made on PAYG. I was explaining to her how it all worked and how you had to make sure you always touched in and out. On that particular journey she exited via the barriers at Watford Junction - I watched her open them with her oyster card and walk through - but she ended up with an unresolved journey. And because she's not that often in London and credits can only be put back onto your card when you use an oyster gate, LUL "stole" that money because she couldn't get her credit back within 8 weeks. Tim. * Date Time Location Action Fare Price cap Balance * 08/05/09 06:12 Watford Junction Entry - £4.00 £31.10 07/05/09 21:11 Watford Junction Exit - £1.50 £35.10 06:09 Watford Junction Entry - £4.00 £38.10 06:09 Watford Junction Auto top-up £40.00 £42.10 06/05/09 21:10 Watford Junction Exit - £1.50 £2.10 06:02 Watford Junction Entry - £4.00 £5.10 05/05/09 21:55 Watford Junction Exit - £1.50 £9.10 07:34 Watford Junction Entry - £6.50 £12.10 01/05/09 21:59 Watford Junction Exit - £1.50 £18.60 07:35 Watford Junction Entry - £6.50 £21.60 30/04/09 20:44 Watford Junction Exit - £1.50 £28.10 07:37 Watford Junction Entry - £6.50 £31.10 29/04/09 22:47 Watford Junction Exit - £1.50 £37.60 22:03 Euston NR Auto top-up £40.00 £41.10 07:36 Watford Junction Entry - £6.50 £0.60 28/04/09 21:55 Watford Junction Exit - £1.50 £7.10 07:36 Watford Junction Entry - £6.50 £10.10 27/04/09 22:18 Watford Junction Exit - £1.50 £16.60 24/04/09 05:58 Watford Junction Entry - £4.00 £19.60 22/04/09 19:28 Watford Junction Exit - £1.50 £33.10 07:36 Watford Junction Entry - £6.50 £36.10 07:36 Watford Junction Auto top-up £40.00 £42.60 17/04/09 18:22 Moorgate Entry - £4.00 £19.20 08:29 Moorgate Exit £0.50 £23.20 07:38 Watford Junction Entry - £6.50 £23.20 15/04/09 19:38 Euston NR Auto top-up £40.00 £42.70 09/04/09 19:55 Euston NR Entry - £5.00 £16.70 08:07 Euston NR Exit - £0.50 £21.70 08/04/09 20:11 Euston NR Entry - £5.00 £26.20 08:10 Euston NR Exit - £0.50 £31.20 07/04/09 22:49 Euston NR Entry - £5.00 £35.70 22:49 Euston NR Auto top-up £40.00 £40.70 08:09 Euston NR Exit - £0.50 £0.70 06/04/09 20:43 Euston NR Entry - £5.00 £5.20 08:55 Euston NR Exit - £0.50 £10.20 03/04/09 21:12 Euston NR Entry - £5.00 £14.70 08:13 Euston NR Exit - £0.50 £19.70 02/04/09 19:00 Euston NR Entry - £5.00 £24.20 08:11 Euston NR Exit - £0.50 £29.20 01/04/09 18:59 Euston NR Entry - £5.00 £33.70 08:09 Euston NR Exit £0.50 £38.70 31/03/09 21:08 Euston NR Entry - £5.00 £3.20 08:18 Euston NR Exit - £0.50 £8.20 30/03/09 19:00 Euston NR Entry - £5.00 £12.70 08:12 Euston NR Exit £0.50 £17.70 07:35 Watford Junction Entry - £6.50 £17.20 -- God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light. http://www.woodall.me.uk/ |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
On May 11, 9:10*am, Tim Woodall wrote: On Thu, 7 May 2009 22:35:08 +0100, * * Recliner wrote: [snip] Certainly, my first reaction was that there must have been some expensive unresolved journeys, but it appears not. But I needed to do some spreadsheet work to be sure. I don't think I've had a correct day on the journey history since end of March. Below is the current mess that it has for my journey history. Currently it appears that Euston is not registering at all except for Auto top-up. Also the pricing appears to have gone weird - why I'm being debited 1.50 when I exit at Watford - which implies I'm being charged 2.00 at entry at Euston. I think it should be 5.00 debit at Euston followed by 1.50 credit at Watford. Previously to that it was Watford Junction that stopped registering at all. It's extremely hard confirm it's correct because there are days missing - e.g. nothing has registered from Moorgate entry on 17/04 to Watford Junction entry on 22/04 but there must have been at least 15GBP of journeys for the Auto top-up to have triggered. Because I sometimes travel before 06:30, sometimes don't do a normal journey - e.g. that 17/04 day where I did WJ-Moorgate; Moorgate-Euston - and I don't keep a record of exactly when I travel where. Tim, the problem here is with the *online* journey history display - as displayed via Oyster online - as opposed to the underlying Oyster central database being incorrect. In other words what's being displayed doesn't make a lot of sense because some exits and entries are missing on the online journey history - however the definitive record, as held by the central Oyster database, is correct. You should therefore find that you have not been overcharged - you can ask the Oyster help desk for a PDF of all the journeys you've done in the past three months, which won't have any gaps in it (unlike the online journey history). I know for a fact that occasionally exits can fail to register (I believe it has happened on entry as well but I can only be 99% sure). It's happened to my girlfriend the very first journey she made on PAYG. I was explaining to her how it all worked and how you had to make sure you always touched in and out. On that particular journey she exited via the barriers at Watford Junction - I watched her open them with her oyster card and walk through - but she ended up with an unresolved journey. And because she's not that often in London and credits can only be put back onto your card when you use an oyster gate, LUL "stole" that money because she couldn't get her credit back within 8 weeks. I have never come across this issue before. It's worth noting that when you touch-in or touch-out on a gate (or standalone Oyster reader) a transaction occurs there and then between the validator and the smartcard - this means that the fare is debited from the card immediately, i.e. without any recourse to the Oyster central database (which just keeps tabs on all the transactions). In this particular instance I'm not sure what happened - perhaps the validators on the gates at Watford Jn were not functioning correctly (it was early days of PAYG at Watford Jn) and so let her out but somehow didn't properly conduct the transaction with her Oyster card. Otherwise I wonder if she inadvertently walked through on someone else's ticket, though from your account that sounds unlikely. The other thing that comes to mind was whether this was a problem of the whole journey 'timing out' - which could perhaps happen if she had started the journey from a Tube station, then made the interchange at Euston, then travelled on to Watford Jn and the total time of the whole journey was over 2 hours (this limit has now been raised to 2 1/2 hours, and is in the process of being changed again so that it reflects the distance a passenger has travelled). Tim. * * ** * * *Date * * Time *Location * * * * Action * * * * Fare Price cap Balance * * ** [snip list] Sorry Tim, I'm not going to provide a free consultancy service on this! |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
On Mon, 11 May 2009 03:06:23 -0700 (PDT),
Mizter T wrote: On May 11, 9:10*am, Tim Woodall wrote: you can ask the Oyster help desk for a PDF of all the journeys you've done in the past three months, which won't have any gaps in it (unlike the online journey history). That's very useful to know. Thanks. I'll do that. I keep a detailed spreadsheet of my oyster PAYG expenses because it's (currently) slightly cheaper for me to use PAYG than a Watford Junction - London Euston season. (Prior to this years vicious price hikes from Watford Junction it was very much cheaper). I don't necessarly expect that this state of affairs will last and I want to make sure I swap back to a season ticket as/when it makes financial sense. But it's not trivially easy to calculate because, for example, my occasional Watford Junction-Zone 1 rather than WJ-Euston cost an extra 50p currently but would cost 1.60 extra if I had a season ticket. So my spreadsheet is setup with some quite complicated rules to try and estimate my annual expenditure. Missing entries/exits, of course, completely break those calculations. I know for a fact that occasionally exits can fail to register (I believe it has happened on entry as well but I can only be 99% sure). It's happened to my girlfriend the very first journey she made on PAYG. I was explaining to her how it all worked and how you had to make sure you always touched in and out. On that particular journey she exited via the barriers at Watford Junction - I watched her open them with her oyster card and walk through - but she ended up with an unresolved journey. And because she's not that often in London and credits can only be put back onto your card when you use an oyster gate, LUL "stole" that money because she couldn't get her credit back within 8 weeks. I have never come across this issue before. It's worth noting that when you touch-in or touch-out on a gate (or standalone Oyster reader) a transaction occurs there and then between the validator and the smartcard - this means that the fare is debited from the card immediately, i.e. without any recourse to the Oyster central database (which just keeps tabs on all the transactions). In this particular instance I'm not sure what happened - perhaps the validators on the gates at Watford Jn were not functioning correctly (it was early days of PAYG at Watford Jn) and so let her out but somehow didn't properly conduct the transaction with her Oyster card. Otherwise I wonder if she inadvertently walked through on someone else's ticket, though from your account that sounds unlikely. The other thing that comes to mind was whether this was a problem of the whole journey 'timing out' - which could perhaps happen if she had started the journey from a Tube station, then made the interchange at Euston, then travelled on to Watford Jn and the total time of the whole journey was over 2 hours (this limit has now been raised to 2 1/2 hours, and is in the process of being changed again so that it reflects the distance a passenger has travelled). In this particular case I'm 100% sure it was a failure somewhere in the Oyster system because I was watching exactly what she did. I cannot be 100% certain that there wasn't a message displayed on the barrier as well because I was standing outside the barrier line but I can be sure that her card opened the barrier. She was standing at the barrier wondering what to do with her card - I said "touch it on the yellow pad." The gates opened, she walked though and said "He, he. It works!" (On this particular day the card was brand new in its own wallet away from all other cards so it cannot even be some freak interference. IIRC on the way in at Euston she came through the manual barrier with me so if it had been a missing entry then I could have better understood what might have gone wrong) I've had one case where I think I had a missed entry. Normally I use the manual gate because I have my Brompton with me but I had a failure on a day when I didn't have my bike. If I don't have my bike then I invariably use the automatic gates but I cannot be 100% sure that either the gates weren't all open or I didn't use the manual gate anyway. If the gates were all open then I'm not exprienced enough at using them to have necessarily been looking in the right direction to see any error message if the card didn't register for any reason. (IIRC I've had one other missed entry at Euston - I noticed when I exited at Watford Junction and it registered as an entry but I'll assume that that was user error. I couldn't be bothered to claim back the extra 50p it cost me) I've also had a case where it has opened the gates for me but beeped ominously and said "seek assistance"[1]. (Can't remember where but it was a station I'd never used before). When I asked at the window they said "Don't worry, it does that sometimes" but they did check my journey history there and then and the exit had registered properly so maybe it was something I did... [1] This might not have been the exact message, I cannot remember now but it was something like that. One thing that would be very useful is a reader somewhere that just displays whether the card thinks it is "in" or "out" of the system. I've had times when I've been sitting on the train at Euston and thought "Did I touch in?" I always have but there's no way to actually check AFAIAA. Or sometimes I've been distracted while touching in or out and not actually managed to read the message on the display before it has gone again. Tim. -- God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light. http://www.woodall.me.uk/ |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
On Mon, 11 May 2009 12:22:16 +0000 (UTC), Tim Woodall wrote:
I've also had a case where it has opened the gates for me but beeped ominously and said "seek assistance"[1]. (Can't remember where but it was a station I'd never used before). When I asked at the window they said "Don't worry, it does that sometimes" but they did check my journey history there and then and the exit had registered properly so maybe it was something I did... I see this happen to people all the time. I think it happens when you hold the card against the reader for slightly longer than necessary - it reads the card and opens the gate, then attempts to read the card a second time, and this time rejects the transaction as a duplicate. |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
On 11 May, 09:10, Tim Woodall wrote:
On Thu, 7 May 2009 22:35:08 +0100, * * Recliner wrote: "Mizter T" wrote in message I'd be prepared to bet that if you were to do this you wouldn't find that you'd been overcharged - in other words, the problem is with the online journey history. I'm wondering if it's possibly connected to the upgrade of the PAYG system, and thus a resulting upgrade of the online journey history system. Note that I'm not making any excuses though - it's certainly not good enough, not least because it just ends up leaving punters confused. Yes, I thought it must be something like that. But given that this is possibly a common fault, perhaps there should be an on-line warning of potential errors, together with a simple way of reporting them? Certainly, my first reaction was that there must have been some expensive unresolved journeys, but it appears not. But I needed to do some spreadsheet work to be sure. I don't think I've had a correct day on the journey history since end of March. Below is the current mess that it has for my journey history. Currently it appears that Euston is not registering at all except for Auto top-up. Also the pricing appears to have gone weird - why I'm being debited 1.50 when I exit at Watford - which implies I'm being charged 2.00 at entry at Euston. I think it should be 5.00 debit at Euston followed by 1.50 credit at Watford. Previously to that it was Watford Junction that stopped registering at all. It's extremely hard confirm it's correct because there are days missing - e.g. nothing has registered from Moorgate entry on 17/04 to Watford Junction entry on 22/04 but there must have been at least 15GBP of journeys for the Auto top-up to have triggered. Because I sometimes travel before 06:30, sometimes don't do a normal journey - e.g. that 17/04 day where I did WJ-Moorgate; Moorgate-Euston - and I don't keep a record of exactly when I travel where. I know for a fact that occasionally exits can fail to register (I believe it has happened on entry as well but I can only be 99% sure). It's happened to my girlfriend the very first journey she made on PAYG. I was explaining to her how it all worked and how you had to make sure you always touched in and out. On that particular journey she exited via the barriers at Watford Junction - I watched her open them with her oyster card and walk through - but she ended up with an unresolved journey. And because she's not that often in London and credits can only be put back onto your card when you use an oyster gate, LUL "stole" that money because she couldn't get her credit back within 8 weeks. Tim. * * ** * * *Date * * Time *Location * * * * Action * * * * Fare Price cap Balance * * ** * * *08/05/09 06:12 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £4.00 * * * * * *£31.10 * * *07/05/09 21:11 Watford Junction Exit * * * *- £1.50 * * * * * *£35.10 * * * * * * * 06:09 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £4.00 * * * * * *£38.10 * * * * * * * 06:09 Watford Junction Auto top-up *£40.00 * * * * * *£42.10 * * *06/05/09 21:10 Watford Junction Exit * * * *- £1.50 * * * * * * £2.10 * * * * * * * 06:02 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £4.00 * * * * * * £5.10 * * *05/05/09 21:55 Watford Junction Exit * * * *- £1.50 * * * * * * £9.10 * * * * * * * 07:34 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £6.50 * * * * * *£12.10 * * *01/05/09 21:59 Watford Junction Exit * * * *- £1.50 * * * * * *£18.60 * * * * * * * 07:35 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £6.50 * * * * * *£21.60 * * *30/04/09 20:44 Watford Junction Exit * * * *- £1.50 * * * * * *£28.10 * * * * * * * 07:37 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £6.50 * * * * * *£31.10 * * *29/04/09 22:47 Watford Junction Exit * * * *- £1.50 * * * * * *£37.60 * * * * * * * 22:03 Euston NR * * * *Auto top-up *£40.00 * * * * * *£41.10 * * * * * * * 07:36 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £6.50 * * * * * * £0.60 * * *28/04/09 21:55 Watford Junction Exit * * * *- £1.50 * * * * * * £7.10 * * * * * * * 07:36 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £6.50 * * * * * *£10.10 * * *27/04/09 22:18 Watford Junction Exit * * * *- £1.50 * * * * * *£16.60 * * *24/04/09 05:58 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £4.00 * * * * * *£19.60 * * *22/04/09 19:28 Watford Junction Exit * * * *- £1.50 * * * * * *£33.10 * * * * * * * 07:36 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £6.50 * * * * * *£36.10 * * * * * * * 07:36 Watford Junction Auto top-up *£40.00 * * * * * *£42.60 * * *17/04/09 18:22 Moorgate * * * * Entry * * * - £4.00 * * * * * *£19.20 * * * * * * * 08:29 Moorgate * * * * Exit * * * * *£0.50 * * * * * *£23.20 * * * * * * * 07:38 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £6.50 * * * * * *£23.20 * * *15/04/09 19:38 Euston NR * * * *Auto top-up *£40.00 * * * * * *£42.70 * * *09/04/09 19:55 Euston NR * * * *Entry * * * - £5.00 * * * * * *£16.70 * * * * * * * 08:07 Euston NR * * * *Exit * * * *- £0.50 * * * * * *£21.70 * * *08/04/09 20:11 Euston NR * * * *Entry * * * - £5.00 * * * * * *£26.20 * * * * * * * 08:10 Euston NR * * * *Exit * * * *- £0.50 * * * * * *£31.20 * * *07/04/09 22:49 Euston NR * * * *Entry * * * - £5.00 * * * * * *£35.70 * * * * * * * 22:49 Euston NR * * * *Auto top-up *£40.00 * * * * * *£40.70 * * * * * * * 08:09 Euston NR * * * *Exit * * * *- £0.50 * * * * * * £0.70 * * *06/04/09 20:43 Euston NR * * * *Entry * * * - £5.00 * * * * * * £5.20 * * * * * * * 08:55 Euston NR * * * *Exit * * * *- £0.50 * * * * * *£10.20 * * *03/04/09 21:12 Euston NR * * * *Entry * * * - £5.00 * * * * * *£14.70 * * * * * * * 08:13 Euston NR * * * *Exit * * * *- £0.50 * * * * * *£19.70 * * *02/04/09 19:00 Euston NR * * * *Entry * * * - £5.00 * * * * * *£24.20 * * * * * * * 08:11 Euston NR * * * *Exit * * * *- £0.50 * * * * * *£29.20 * * *01/04/09 18:59 Euston NR * * * *Entry * * * - £5.00 * * * * * *£33.70 * * * * * * * 08:09 Euston NR * * * *Exit * * * * *£0.50 * * * * * *£38.70 * * *31/03/09 21:08 Euston NR * * * *Entry * * * - £5.00 * * * * * * £3.20 * * * * * * * 08:18 Euston NR * * * *Exit * * * *- £0.50 * * * * * * £8.20 * * *30/03/09 19:00 Euston NR * * * *Entry * * * - £5.00 * * * * * *£12.70 * * * * * * * 08:12 Euston NR * * * *Exit * * * * *£0.50 * * * * * *£17.70 * * * * * * * 07:35 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £6.50 * * * * * *£17.20 -- God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light. *http://www.woodall.me.uk/- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Tim \What makes you think that TFL will not send you a cheque for oyster refunds if you a) have a registered card and b) ask very nicely explaining why there is a problem? If doing so I suggest that you ask the person Do they work for TFL or are thay a subcontractor? HTH Phil |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
|
Journey history with a Bank problem?
On Wed, 13 May 2009 23:36:07 +0100,
Colum Mylod wrote: On Wed, 13 May 2009 00:51:44 -0700 (PDT), wrote: Tim \What makes you think that TFL will not send you a cheque for oyster refunds if you a) have a registered card and b) ask very nicely explaining why there is a problem? Indeed. Despite using 1 tube station daily, I was sent a cheque for a system failure in 2005. The person on the other end of the line was in a hurry to quit so her manager waded through her stuff and sorted out debts by cheque as there was no record made of preferred refund means. It obviously depends on who you get on the phone. She was told it was _IMPOSSIBLE_ to do a refund other than by her visiting a nominated station to pick it up. As that would, best case, have involved a 20GBP round trip train fare to collect about 2GBP it wasn't worth it. It's a common problem with railway staff (it happens in other industries as well but the railways seem to be worse than most) deciding that something can't be done. Some years ago when I had an annual season ticket it had faded to the point of almost complete unreadability. The guards at the barrier at Euston kept telling me to get it replaced and pointing me to the window. But _every_ time the person on the window said it was _IMPOSSIBLE_ and I had to post off my ticket and, in the mean time, buy daily ticket and then get a refund once I got my ticket back. On about the sixth or seventh time (This time I was arguing with the guards rather than joining the queue AGAIN to achieve nothing) their manager/supervisor/whatever got involved and came with me to the ticket window. Lo and behold, suddenly, what had been impossible took about three minutes. I cannot comprehend why I had been given the runaround before. It really didn't seem difficult at all, the only minor issue seemed to be that the teller didn't have any gold card stock immediately to hand and had to fetch it from somewhere else. In future years when my ticket faded I _knew_ that the tellers could do it and I wouldn't leave the ticket window until they sorted it out. Bank Holiday weekend I was told there were "no tickets at all from Victoria to Horsham." If I hadn't known to say "Try London Terminals to Horsham" then I don't know what would have happened (probably been forced to queue for hours at Victoria to buy my ticket instead of getting it in advance) Likewise with these oyster refunds. What do you do when you're told it is _IMPOSSIBLE_? One of my US collegues was told that because he'd topped up his card using both cash and credit card, the _ONLY_ way to get a refund on the remaining balance was to fill in a form and then, several weeks later, get a GBP denominated cheque posted to his home address. I can see why a cash refund might not be allowed but surely it could be refunded to the credit card? (Instead he found someone in the office willing to buy it off him.) Tim. -- God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light. http://www.woodall.me.uk/ |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
Thanks muchly for your efforts on this, but I don't think it's going
to help as it's mostly gobbledygook to me!!! I just wish the online journey history wasn't so complicated to make sense of (let alone reflect the journey history accurately, which was the origin of this thread!). Regards Tim On 11 May, 18:41, Tim Woodall wrote: On Fri, 8 May 2009 02:09:39 -0700 (PDT), * * wrote: Certainly, my first reaction was that there must have been some expensive unresolved journeys, but it appears not. But I needed to do some spreadsheet work to be sure. I've also suffered missing entries, but with a correct overall balance. Am I alone in thinking that the online display is unnecessarily confusing? The "Fare" column doesn't actually show the fare for a journey (except for a bus) - it shows debits and credits. I'm interested in your spreadsheet - does anyone have anything that you can just paste the journey history into and it actually shows the fares charged?? (Sorry this is rather specific to unix and open office users but maybe someone can adapt it for microsoft tools) I use the following: 1. Save the "printer friendly version" of the journey history. 2. Run it through a script to turn the saved html in 1 into a csv file (see end of this post for the script) 3. Import the CSV into open office. Then (I think) adding the following columns will give you what you want: Column I: row 94: =IF(A95+B95+2/24A94+B94;I95+E94;E94) Column J: row 94: =IF(A95+B95+2/24A94+B94;"";I94) Copy and paste into the other rows. This fails in two cases: 1, if you have auto top-up that will be added to your journey "cost" and 2, if you make two journeys the second of which starts less than two hours after the first finished it will be consolidated into one journey. 1 is fairly easy to fix - just create a new column that zeros out any auto top-up entries and then change the column I formula to reference your new column instead of column E. 2 is harder to fix - you can tweak the 2/24 parameter - that's the number of hours for the next entry to be added to your journey (not the total journey time) I don't know how well this will play with capping - I've never reached a cap - or season tickets plus extensions. Tim. $ cat ppv2csv cat $1 | sed -n ' /tr/ { * * * * * h * * * * } /\/tr/ { * * * * * H * * * * * x //g * * * s/ * * * * * s/\n//g * * * * * s/\t//g * * * * * s/ *//g * * * * * s/ *//g * * * * * s/tr//g * * * * * s|/tr||g * * * * * s/td//g * * * * * s|/td|$ $|g * * * * * s/^.*$// * * * * * s/[^]*//g * * * * * s/£//g * * * * * s/- /-/g * * * * * p * * * * } { * * * * H * * * * } ' | while read d r; do * if [[ "$d" = '$' ]]; then * * d=$oldd; * else * * oldd=$d * fi * echo $d $r done | grep -v '^$' | sed 's/\$ \$/\t/g' -- God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light. *http://www.woodall.me.uk/ |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
"Colum Mylod" wrote in message
On Fri, 8 May 2009 15:45:12 +0100, "Recliner" wrote: "Martin Deutsch" wrote in message .. I'm sure you're already aware that tube ticket offices can give you a printout of your last 8 journeys, which should do the trick for expenses claims. If you can get to a ticket office when it's staffed, and don't make new journeys in the meantime that push the unclaimed ones off the list-of-8! Which can happen to me. I wish TfL would do an "Amsterdam" and put a printer into the top-up machines a la OV-kaart. I use snapper plugin in Firefox to grab the journey history and upload it. A printout means a scan, though the printout is clearer (which can be a disadvantage when claiming! All those £4 debits look good.) As a matter of interest, is there anyone whose on-line Oyster journey history contains no omissions at all? Mine was pretty good (not noticing omissions) up to March. Delayed maybe: from yesterday to perhaps 2 weeks delay in showing up. It turns out that my card's balance is correct, but Bank has indeed gone missing from the JH. TFL are missing another trick he there's no point worrying all of us when a simple professional status web page would suffice. It would cause fewer calls to their call centre. I had the opportunity to check my journey history on a ticket machine yesterday, and as expected, all was correct. More surprisingly, the on-line history is now also correct. I don't know if that's as a result of my ticket machine check which perhaps caused some corrupted data buffer to be re-set, or just that they've fixed the system for everyone. |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
On May 16, 11:47*am, "Recliner" wrote: "Colum Mylod" wrote: On Fri, 8 May 2009 15:45:12 +0100, "Recliner" wrote: [snip] As a matter of interest, is there anyone whose on-line Oyster journey history contains no omissions at all? Mine was pretty good (not noticing omissions) up to March. Delayed maybe: from yesterday to perhaps 2 weeks delay in showing up. It turns out that my card's balance is correct, but Bank has indeed gone missing from the JH. TFL are missing another trick he there's no point worrying all of us when a simple professional status web page would suffice. It would cause fewer calls to their call centre. I had the opportunity to check my journey history on a ticket machine yesterday, and as expected, all was correct. More surprisingly, the on-line history is now also correct. I don't know if that's as a result of my ticket machine check which perhaps caused some corrupted data buffer to be re-set, or just that they've fixed the system for everyone. The latter. The issue here is not some fundamental problem with the underlying central Oyster database, but the presentation of journey history data in the Oyster online account system (i.e. what you see via your web account). I've no idea on the specifics of how the online journey history system sources its data from the central Oyster database (could it happen on the fly? I'm not so sure that's how it would work), but the problem is some sort of disconnect between the definitive central Oyster database and the system that prepares the online journey history - this may have only affected some as opposed to all the online accounts. If there was some sort of problem with the central Oyster database then all head would have broken loose a long time back! The central Oyster database system basically needs to have quasi-bank like reliability - it's unlikely something would go wrong with it. This online journey history problem is all about the mangled presentation of that data - or more to the point only some of it - as opposed to the underlying data being mangled. |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
"Mizter T" wrote in message
On May 16, 11:47 am, "Recliner" wrote: "Colum Mylod" wrote: On Fri, 8 May 2009 15:45:12 +0100, "Recliner" wrote: [snip] As a matter of interest, is there anyone whose on-line Oyster journey history contains no omissions at all? Mine was pretty good (not noticing omissions) up to March. Delayed maybe: from yesterday to perhaps 2 weeks delay in showing up. It turns out that my card's balance is correct, but Bank has indeed gone missing from the JH. TFL are missing another trick he there's no point worrying all of us when a simple professional status web page would suffice. It would cause fewer calls to their call centre. I had the opportunity to check my journey history on a ticket machine yesterday, and as expected, all was correct. More surprisingly, the on-line history is now also correct. I don't know if that's as a result of my ticket machine check which perhaps caused some corrupted data buffer to be re-set, or just that they've fixed the system for everyone. The latter. The issue here is not some fundamental problem with the underlying central Oyster database, but the presentation of journey history data in the Oyster online account system (i.e. what you see via your web account). I've no idea on the specifics of how the online journey history system sources its data from the central Oyster database (could it happen on the fly? I'm not so sure that's how it would work), but the problem is some sort of disconnect between the definitive central Oyster database and the system that prepares the online journey history - this may have only affected some as opposed to all the online accounts. If there was some sort of problem with the central Oyster database then all head would have broken loose a long time back! The central Oyster database system basically needs to have quasi-bank like reliability - it's unlikely something would go wrong with it. This online journey history problem is all about the mangled presentation of that data - or more to the point only some of it - as opposed to the underlying data being mangled. Yes, I know the underlying system isn't broken, but the Web reporting had lots of gaps. All of a sudden, it no longer has for me. I was wondering if this meant that the Web system is now properly hooked up for everyone, or if my checking on a ticket machine restored the connection for my account? If that's the case, then anyone else reporting incorrect Web reporting may have an easy way to fix the problem -- just check the journey history on a ticket machine. Not only will this be correct, but it should also reset any Web reporting problems. |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
On Sat, 16 May 2009 11:47:45 +0100,
Recliner wrote: I had the opportunity to check my journey history on a ticket machine yesterday, and as expected, all was correct. More surprisingly, the on-line history is now also correct. I don't know if that's as a result of my ticket machine check which perhaps caused some corrupted data buffer to be re-set, or just that they've fixed the system for everyone. Thanks for that info, just rechecked mine and it's enormously better: approximately 20 missing records over the last two months have now appeared. (I've not done anything with my card at any ticket machines so it looks like it's been "sorted" for everyone) Still 30 missing records for April and eight for May so far but all the missing entries are now obvious - e.g. entry but no exit or exit with no entry rather than multiple days with nothing recorded at all. As an aside, it appears that the online staff see the same journey history we see on line, not the "official" one. Back on 6th January I had an aborted journey from Euston where the overhead lines came down - approximately three hours before we got back to Euston. When I rang up to request a refund I had to explain that the apparent unresolved journeys on the morning and the day before were absolutely fine and correct (except that they weren't showing either an entry or an exit on the journey history) and it was the real unresolved journey in the evening that I wanted a refund for. Tim. -- God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light. http://www.woodall.me.uk/ |
Journey history with a Bank problem?
On Thu, 14 May 2009 07:32:00 -0700 (PDT),
Tim wrote: Thanks muchly for your efforts on this, but I don't think it's going to help as it's mostly gobbledygook to me!!! I just wish the online journey history wasn't so complicated to make sense of (let alone reflect the journey history accurately, which was the origin of this thread!). Regards I've found it's very much easier than that :-) You can import the "printer ready" version of the journey history straight into openoffice. I've build a spreadsheet where all you need to do is: 1. Save the printer ready journey history to a file 2. Insert-Sheet From File and select the file created in 1 3. Change Cell B1 on the "Journeys" sheet to the name of the sheet you created in 2. That's it. Enjoy your journey history. http://www.woodall.me.uk/journeycalc/journeycalc.ods http://www.openoffice.org/ (Note that I'm using version 2.4 of openoffice. I assume later versions will open this file without any problems) I've included two sheets of my journey history just so you can see how it works, including what happens when there are missing items in the journey history. The sheet "Workings" is used for internal calculations, just ignore it unless you want to enhance the way it calculates the start and end of journeys. At the moment the logic is that if a row happens more than two hours after the previous row then it's a journey start, otherwise it's a journey continuation. (For anyone who wants to improve this, the two critical columns are H and I on this page. As long as these are right, everything else should automatically be correct - bugs excepted) Openoffice does have the option to save as an excel file but as I have not way to test this I've not done it. Note also that I have a very boring life on oyster. I've got no capped journeys, no cash top-ups etc. These may not work properly. If anyone wants to provide printer ready journey histories with these in I'll try and enhance the spreadsheet to handle them properly Tim. p.s. I've protected the two critical sheets (other than cell B1 on Journeys.) There's no password set to this can just be turned off if you want to change things. -- God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light. http://www.woodall.me.uk/ |
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