On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:39:46 -0000, "iantheengineer"
wrote:


Its a case of would it be justified and the answer is no, you cannot have
underground systems everywhere, they are only econmic in cities.

As for the crap roads well thank Mrs Thatcher

?? She was out before the 1st Gulf War, 1990-1991, (13 years ago).

for the years of
underinvestment. The current government is spending loads on improvement

But they spent nowt for Yonks didn't they until it became obvious that
the useless gang of ******* who were running that apology for a
railway we had couldn't run a popcorn stand.

but
it will take toime to sort out all the problems she created when giving the
yuppies tax breaks in the "good ol 1980s!"


I can't let that go by.

You appear to be confused, M.T. was the author of the privatisation
era, BT, BA, BG ... etc. Yuppiedom started with the deregulation of
the City of London, mid '90s onwards, when a one bedroom flat in the
docklands at £350k came with a "free" Porsche (But no garage!).

Last year was the first since (IIRC) 1957 that there was not one inch
of new motorway. This government have been in power 6 years!

Driving around Scotland this last week reminded me of driving around
the old East Germany. There isn't even uninterupted motorway between
Glasgow,Edinburgh and London (Pick any 2), and the motorway doesn't go
anywhere near Edinburgh city centre, and there isn't even an
uninterupted motorway route to England.

My journey times are longer now by about20% than they were in 1974
when I first took a job involving extensive travelling despite
significantly better cars.

The old A1 has been moved 3 times around Newcastle-upon-Tyne and the
journey still takes longer than when the traffic went over Tyne Bridge
and straight through the middle of the city! It is so bad around the
Metro centre that there is a permanent free breakdown service! It's
obvious what's needed, a proper 3 (at least) lane motorway bypassing
N'castle unencumbered with local traffic and *motorway* onwards to
both Edinburgh and Glasgow.

DG

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:33:06 +0000, derek
wrote:

Last year was the first since (IIRC) 1957 that there was not one inch
of new motorway. This government have been in power 6 years!

[snip]

My journey times are longer now by about20% than they were in 1974
when I first took a job involving extensive travelling despite
significantly better cars.

So despite all this roadbuilding, your journey times have gone up?


Have you considered the possibility that roadbuidling doesn't solve
congestion?



Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Robert Woolley wrote...

derek wrote:

Last year was the first since (IIRC) 1957 that there was not one inch
of new motorway. This government have been in power 6 years!
My journey times are longer now by about20% than they were in 1974
when I first took a job involving extensive travelling despite
significantly better cars.

So despite all this roadbuilding, your journey times have gone up?

Have you considered the possibility that roadbuidling doesn't solve
congestion?

There are at least two other equally-valid possibilities:

(a) his journeys are longer, more numerous and/or are undertaken in a busier
part of the UK, or

(b) due to increases in traffic (especially during the prosperous 1980s),
the congestion would have been even worse had it not been for the
(relatively small) expansion of the high-quality road network (meaning that
not enough expansion has taken place).

"JNugent" writes:

(b) due to increases in traffic (especially during the prosperous 1980s),
the congestion would have been even worse had it not been for the
(relatively small) expansion of the high-quality road network (meaning that
not enough expansion has taken place).

Have you ever considered that building new roads might influence more
people to get into their cars? Many towns are now made up of large
segregated areas of industrial "parks", shopping "parks" and vast
residential suburbs without even a corner store within walking
distance. The only practical way to get between these places is to
drive. If the road network had not been expanded to accomodate such
"urban planning", a more sensible mix would have been found that did
not involve everyone driving everywhere.

Have you ever considered that building new roads might influence
more people to get into their cars? Many towns are now made up
of large segregated areas of industrial "parks", shopping "parks"
and vast residential suburbs without even a corner store within
walking distance.

That's not new roads causing extra traffic, that's out-of-town shopping
centres and retail parks causing extra traffic.

Unfortunately, councils are all too keen to grant permission for these
things, but they don't bother improving the road network in the area to cope
with the inevitable increase in congestion. Just look at the roads around
any Ikea store, for instance.

On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 12:46:18 +0000, Chris Jones wrote:

Have you ever considered that building new roads might influence
more people to get into their cars? Many towns are now made up
of large segregated areas of industrial "parks", shopping "parks"
and vast residential suburbs without even a corner store within
walking distance.

That's not new roads causing extra traffic, that's out-of-town shopping
centres and retail parks causing extra traffic.

Unfortunately, councils are all too keen to grant permission for these
things, but they don't bother improving the road network in the area to cope
with the inevitable increase in congestion. Just look at the roads around
any Ikea store, for instance.

It took 15 years of Hell before Junction 8 on the M62 was finished. The
Trafford Centre fares better, however the metro doesn't go there.

"Huge" wrote in message
...
"iantheengineer" writes:

[37 lines snipped]

As for the crap roads well thank Mrs Thatcher for the years of
underinvestment. The current government is spending loads on improvement
but
it will take toime to sort out all the problems she created when giving
the
yuppies tax breaks in the "good ol 1980s!"

Don't talk bigotted crap.


--
"The road to Paradise is through Intercourse."
The uk.transport FAQ; http://www.huge.org.uk/transport/FAQ.html
[email me at huge [at] huge [dot] org [dot] uk]


Not crap the truth

Not crap the truth

Would you like to back that up with evidence? For example, does the fact
that Thatcher's government built large portions of the M40, M20 and M25, as
well as several other major road projects, mean nothing to you?

Whereas the current government's refusal to build anything (except a toll
road) somehow paints them as a shining knight?

On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 17:57:59 -0000, "Chris Jones"
wrote:
Would you like to back that up with evidence? For example, does the fact
that Thatcher's government built large portions of the M40, M20 and M25, as
well as several other major road projects, mean nothing to you?
Chris there are some people in this country who will never see one
ounce of good in Mrs Thatcher or in anything she did but to me she was
the best PM since Sir Winston. At least she had the guts to stand up
for the UK and its people when she went across to Brussels and with
her education being so advanced she did know how to say the word NO in
many different tongs if need be unlike Blair and his pack of bloody
war mungers and liars .
With a bit of luck in eighteen months time the UK will be governed by
a decent party with a man at the helm who knows what he is doing .
Whereas the current government's refusal to build anything (except a toll
road) somehow paints them as a shining knight?
What rubbish Chris what about all the new roads houses and god knows
what else the current government is providing and building in Iraqi
with OUR money for the people of Iraqi not to mention all the four
star accommodation that they are building for all the foreign guest's
that Blair and the blind beggar are welcoming into this country with
open arms .
My God if only we COULD have dear Maggie back in No10 .
Grant .

iantheengineer wrote:
"Huge" wrote in message
...
"iantheengineer" writes:

[37 lines snipped]

As for the crap roads well thank Mrs Thatcher for the years of
underinvestment. The current government is spending loads on
improvement but it will take toime to sort out all the problems she
created when giving the yuppies tax breaks in the "good ol 1980s!"

Don't talk bigotted crap.

Not crap the truth

Sorry, one of the biggest loads of totally untrue rubbish posted here for
months.

Margaret Thatcher was by far the most pro-road Prime Minister of recent
years and her administration approved a large number of new road projects
(completing the M40 between Oxford and Birmingham probably being the single
biggest). Unfortunately many of those were cancelled by the Major government
and some of those that remained by John Prescott.

Labour has recently begun to grudgingly acknowledge that a decent transport
system is essential for a successful economy, and has started reinstating a
few of these schemes.

But without the decisions taken under the Thatcher adminstrations, Britain's
roads would be far worse than they are now (which doesn't bear thinking
about, really).

--
http://www.speedlimit.org.uk
"If laws are to be respected, they must be worthy of respect."