London Terminals National Rail tickets and London Underground gates
 

My partner and I did part of the Lea Valley Walk, yesterday, between
Hatfield and Hertford, starting at London. We got single tickets; we
would have been cheaper to use returns to Stevenage.

On our way back, a Hatfield to London Terminals ticket was valid at
Moorgate after we got the Underground at Finsbury Park - those NR
services do not run to Moorgate at the weekend.
The ticket was returned by the machine; I started to wonder what worked.
I then found the following:

OUT IN Station
Y - KXSP NR
- Y KXSP LU
N - Farringdon
N - Barbican
Y Y Moorgate
N N Liverpool Street

As it happens, my investigations were backed up by a Z1-3 Travelcard and
the ticket stopped working at Moorgate after it had been rejected at
Liverpool Street; it worked at Moorgate after rejection at Farringdon.

A previous ticket from St Pancras to Harpenden showed as London
Thameslink to Harpenden. It seems that London Thameslink consists of St
Pancras, Farringdon, City Thameslink, Blackfriars, and London Bridge.
It is notable as permitting exit at Farringdon which London Terminals
never did.
--
Walter Briscoe

London Terminals National Rail tickets and London Underground gates
 

In message of Mon, 18 May
2009 11:37:20 in uk.transport.london, Paul Corfield
writes
On Mon, 18 May 2009 11:00:51 +0100, Walter Briscoe
wrote:

My partner and I did part of the Lea Valley Walk, yesterday, between
Hatfield and Hertford, starting at London. We got single tickets; we
would have been cheaper to use returns to Stevenage.

On our way back, a Hatfield to London Terminals ticket was valid at
Moorgate after we got the Underground at Finsbury Park - those NR
services do not run to Moorgate at the weekend.
The ticket was returned by the machine; I started to wonder what worked.
I then found the following:

OUT IN Station
Y - KXSP NR
- Y KXSP LU
N - Farringdon
N - Barbican
Y Y Moorgate
N N Liverpool Street

This is exactly as it should work given the validity parameters that are
encoded on the ticket. It would also have worked at Old Street but not
at Angel if your wanderings had taken you down the Northern Line City
branch.

I had not even considered Angel as it never had a National Rail service.
OTOH, Old Street does on weekdays. I am VERY confused. ;(


I think I can even recall setting up the data in the system for that
many, many years ago.

What a wonderfully informed reply!
Why don't LU outgoing gates swallow X - London Terminals single tickets?

Would you expect:
London Terminals to Kemble to allow Moorgate to Paddington;
Oxford to London Terminals to allow Paddington to Moorgate?
(Thames Path from source to Oxford over 4 days, next weekend.)
--
Walter Briscoe

London Terminals National Rail tickets and London Undergroundgates
 

On 18 May, 13:24, Walter Briscoe wrote:
In message of Mon, 18 May
2009 11:37:20 in uk.transport.london, Paul Corfield
writes





On Mon, 18 May 2009 11:00:51 +0100, Walter Briscoe
wrote:

My partner and I did part of the Lea Valley Walk, yesterday, between
Hatfield and Hertford, starting at London. We got single tickets; we
would have been cheaper to use returns to Stevenage.

On our way back, a Hatfield to London Terminals ticket was valid at
Moorgate after we got the Underground at Finsbury Park - those NR
services do not run to Moorgate at the weekend.
The ticket was returned by the machine; I started to wonder what worked..
I then found the following:

OUT * * IN * * *Station
Y * * * - * * * KXSP NR
- * * * Y * * * KXSP LU
N * * * - * * * Farringdon
N * * * - * * * Barbican
Y * * * Y * * * Moorgate
N * * * N * * * Liverpool Street

This is exactly as it should work given the validity parameters that are
encoded on the ticket. It would also have worked at Old Street but not
at Angel if your wanderings had taken you down the Northern Line City
branch.

I had not even considered Angel as it never had a National Rail service.
OTOH, Old Street does on weekdays. I am VERY confused. ;(



I think I can even recall setting up the data in the system for that
many, many years ago.

What a wonderfully informed reply!
Why don't LU outgoing gates swallow X - London Terminals single tickets?

Would you expect:
London Terminals to Kemble to allow Moorgate to Paddington;
Oxford to London Terminals to allow Paddington to Moorgate?
(Thames Path from source to Oxford over 4 days, next weekend.)
--
Walter Briscoe- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As I remember, LU gates never swallowed any tickets not issued by LU.
Perhaps that is the formula, ie given that NR (or BR) issued tickets
might be cross-London, keep the programming simple and only swallow LU-
only singles.

London Terminals National Rail tickets and London Undergroundgates
 

On 18 May, 13:24, Walter Briscoe wrote:

Why don't LU outgoing gates swallow X - London Terminals single tickets?

Would you expect:
London Terminals to Kemble to allow Moorgate to Paddington;
Oxford to London Terminals to allow Paddington to Moorgate?
(Thames Path from source to Oxford over 4 days, next weekend.)
--
I'm sure Paul C will be along with the definitive answer, as I'm not
sure if the gates at Moorgate would allow these or not - I don't know
if LU gates can recognise valid routes to London Terminals (I suspect
not), or if a National Rail ticket to London Terminals that is valid
to Moorgate have a special encoding (which is technically possible).

What is certain however, is that Kemble to Moorgate (as London
Terminals) is not a valid route once you join the Underground (at
Ealing Bdwy to avoid the gates at Paddington), and therefore on the
Underground you would be liable to a Penalty Fare if you didn't have
the back-up of the Z1-3 Travelcard.

It would be interesting to hear the result though if you do try it.

Best regards

London Terminals National Rail tickets and London Underground gates
 

On Mon, 18 May 2009 11:00:51 +0100, Walter Briscoe wrote:

OUT IN Station
Y - KXSP NR
- Y KXSP LU
N - Farringdon
N - Barbican
Y Y Moorgate
N N Liverpool Street

As it happens, my investigations were backed up by a Z1-3 Travelcard and
the ticket stopped working at Moorgate after it had been rejected at
Liverpool Street; it worked at Moorgate after rejection at Farringdon.

It probably stopped working at Moorgate after it had been accepted at
Moorgate.

London Terminals National Rail tickets and London Underground gates
 

In message of Tue, 19 May
2009 00:11:29 in uk.transport.london, asdf
writes
On Mon, 18 May 2009 11:00:51 +0100, Walter Briscoe wrote:

OUT IN Station
Y - KXSP NR
- Y KXSP LU
N - Farringdon
N - Barbican
Y Y Moorgate
N N Liverpool Street

As it happens, my investigations were backed up by a Z1-3 Travelcard and
the ticket stopped working at Moorgate after it had been rejected at
Liverpool Street; it worked at Moorgate after rejection at Farringdon.

It probably stopped working at Moorgate after it had been accepted at
Moorgate.

It was accepted twice outgoing at Moorgate!
Paul, Thanks for the advice. On Saturday, I will try both London
Terminals between Moorgate and Paddington with a Travelcard backup.
The other half - lacking a Travelcard - will use Oyster PAYG. I will
report experience, some time after next Tuesday.
--
Walter Briscoe

London Terminals National Rail tickets and London Underground gates
 

In message of Tue, 19 May
2009 09:23:24 in uk.transport.london, Paul Corfield
writes
On Mon, 18 May 2009 13:24:51 +0100, Walter Briscoe
wrote:

[snip]

Would you expect:
London Terminals to Kemble to allow Moorgate to Paddington;

No I would not.

Oxford to London Terminals to allow Paddington to Moorgate?

No I would not. You will now go and do a test run and come up with
results that differ from my expectation.

I did so. On the way out, London Terminals to Kemble was rejected at
Moorgate, but accepted at Paddington - Lawn gates. On the return trip,
Oxford to London Terminals was swallowed by the gates at Paddington NR,
platforms 2/3 and my opportunity to experiment vanished.


The whole issue here is whether the LU gate is set to be "London
Terminals" plus whether the ticket is encoded via travel via Zone 1.
It's a long time since I did detailed coding stuff but in both of your
examples you will not be able to exit at the LUL destination station as
Zone 1 is not encoded. It's possible the gates at Moorgate might let you
in because that does act as London Terminals. I don't know what is set
up for Paddington given the advent of FGW's gates plus the complications
of both magnetic and Oyster OSIs being present.

--
Walter Briscoe

London Terminals National Rail tickets and London Undergroundgates
 

On a similar theme, I recently had to travel across London, and
decided to walk to Piccadilly Circus from Charing Cross. However, my
ticket did not work and when I presented it to a LU member of staff I
was denied access as she informed me that it was only valid from
terminus to terminus.

I had walked because it was a lovely warm evening and I had time to
spare. Was she right?

Thanks

Ken Wilshire

On 27 May, 07:03, Walter Briscoe wrote:
In message of Tue, 19 May
2009 09:23:24 in uk.transport.london, Paul Corfield
writes

On Mon, 18 May 2009 13:24:51 +0100, Walter Briscoe
wrote:

[snip]

Would you expect:
London Terminals to Kemble to allow Moorgate to Paddington;

No I would not.

Oxford to London Terminals to allow Paddington to Moorgate?

No I would not. * You will now go and do a test run and come up with
results that differ from my expectation.

I did so. On the way out, London Terminals to Kemble was rejected at
Moorgate, but accepted at Paddington - Lawn gates. On the return trip,
Oxford to London Terminals was swallowed by the gates at Paddington NR,
platforms 2/3 and my opportunity to experiment vanished.



The whole issue here is whether the LU gate is set to be "London
Terminals" plus whether the ticket is encoded via travel via Zone 1.
It's a long time since I did detailed coding stuff but in both of your
examples you will not be able to exit at the LUL destination station as
Zone 1 is not encoded. It's possible the gates at Moorgate might let you
in because that does act as London Terminals. *I don't know what is set
up for Paddington given the advent of FGW's gates plus the complications
of both magnetic and Oyster OSIs being present.

--
Walter Briscoe

London Terminals National Rail tickets and London Underground
 

On Wed, 27 May 2009 08:12:29 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:


On a similar theme, I recently had to travel across London, and
decided to walk to Piccadilly Circus from Charing Cross. However, my
ticket did not work and when I presented it to a LU member of staff I
was denied access as she informed me that it was only valid from
terminus to terminus.

I had walked because it was a lovely warm evening and I had time to
spare. Was she right?

Sounds like she passed her jobsworth exam with flying colours.

B2003

London Terminals National Rail tickets and London Underground
 

In article
,
() wrote:

On a similar theme, I recently had to travel across London, and
decided to walk to Piccadilly Circus from Charing Cross. However, my
ticket did not work and when I presented it to a LU member of staff I
was denied access as she informed me that it was only valid from
terminus to terminus.

I had walked because it was a lovely warm evening and I had time to
spare. Was she right?

Thanks

Jobsworth as was said, but you could have used any terminal station. So
for King's cross to Victoria you can walk to Euston and enter the tube
there.

--
Colin Rosenstiel