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TfL's strike contingency plans...
....first off though, it's worth noting the improved offer from LU:
"LU made an improved offer of a four-year deal of 1.5% this year and then the inflation rate plus 0.5%; or a two-year deal of 1% now and inflation plus 0.5% in year two." See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8088708.stm I can understand that the rationale behind the union not wanting to sign a five year deal, as much may change in the next few years. But here's the offer of a two year deal - I find it difficult to see how they can turn their nose up at that. Of course I'd think LU would prefer them to opt for the four year deal as that takes it past the Olympics, but it seems they're willing to do a two year deal as well. Of course I don't know the details, so perhaps there's various things chucked in with the four year pay offer to spice it up somewhat over the two year pay offer. Anyway, leaving aside the brinkmanship I see from the splash on the front page of the TfL website that they've got a number of contingency plans up their sleeve should the strike go ahead - see the news release he http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/11971.aspx There's several things of note... * Most strikingly Oyster PAYG "will be accepted on all National Rail journeys within Greater London on Wednesday and Thursday, just show your Oyster card at station gate lines". In practice I'm pretty sure this means that anyone who can flash an Oyster card can travel on NR services in London. It'll be interesting to see what is done where Oyster PAYG is accepted for part of a National Rail (NR) route, but not for all of it - specifically how unresolved journeys will be handled. A good example of this is someone's normal commute from Bounds Green to King's Cross on the Piccadilly line - instead they'll be able to travel from Bowes Park NR station to King's Cross on FCC's Great Northern service. Normally Oyster PAYG is only accepted on the GN service between Finsbury Park and King's Cross/ all stations to Moorgate. However on strike day they'd end up simply touching-out at King's Cross as they can't touch-in at Bowes Park, and likewise on their way home touching- in at KX and not being able to touch-out at Bowes Park. This could be dealt with by reconfiguring all the relevant Oyster readers (on gates and standalone validators) at NR stations to simply debit the amount for the minimum journey from that station, i.e. switch off the 'entry charge' system and revert to how things were before it was introduced, and also stop unresolved journeys breaking capping. At least this is what I'd do! If it happens I imagine it might possibly be more easily implemented on a network-wide basis, as opposed to trying to single out the relevant stations. Anyway, we shall see how that plays out. Regardless of the unresolved journey issue, passing Oyster PAYG across NR would certainly lead to a degree of confusion in the mind's of many passengers, given the "always touch-in, always touch-out" mantra that's been drilled into them! Are NR staff prepared for the questioning?! Looking at it more generally, TfL must be prepared to hand over some serious cash to the TOCs for effectively allowing free travel on the NR network (but shush, just make sure you don't phrase it like that!). * There will be "five escorted cycle rides", which will set off from their start points at 0745 - none of which are actually very far out of town, but I think it's often the final stretch into central London that puts people off cycling to work. This is being organised by the London Cycle Campaign - they've dubbed it "BikeTube(s)" and have a special website about it he http://www.biketube.org.uk/ The aforementioned website also has a load of other more general information about commuter cycling - all the sensible stuff like fix yer bike up, ride safely, plan your route etc. LCC are evidently trying to take this opportunity to convert more people over to cycling. * Also with regards to cycling, there'll be extra cycle parking places at five central London locations - if my sums are correct, there'll be 750 extra parking places at four locations plus 1,000 extra at the pre- existing London Bridge cycle park (it's unclear if this will cost or not - normally you've got to pay). Plus TfL reckon many business will provide space somewhere. * London Overground is apparently "operating as normal", so it seems TfL are confident that the LUL managed stations can stay open. ("Operating as normal" on the NLL of course means getting stuck behind a 'failed' freight train, or having a slow freight train sent out just in front of a passenger train.) * Extra river bus services will operate, including a "free peak shuttle" between London Eye - Westminster - Tower Bridge "every 10 minutes between 07:00-10:00 and 15:00-20:00 on both main strike days" i.e. Wednesday and Thursday. * There'll be marshalled taxi sharing from seven London termini stations. * Walking maps for central London will be handed out at major rail and bus stations and at "key Tube stations". So, all the fun of the fair. If it encourages some more people to 'discover' walking or cycling then perhaps there can be some good that comes from it all. Apols if the tenses got a bit confused above - that just reflects the uncertainty over whether the strike is going to happen or not. They keep you on your toes, the RMT, of that one can be sure. |
TfL's strike contingency plans...
On Jun 8, 7:28*pm, Mizter T wrote:
Anyway, leaving aside the brinkmanship I see from the splash on the front page of the TfL website that they've got a number of contingency plans up their sleeve should the strike go ahead - see the news release hehttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/11971.aspx That's the 'In case of tube strike, break glass' bolt-on, as a friend just described it. I also got a text from TfL this evening letting me know about it, and directing me towards the website. I guess it's going ahead, then... I tried asking the 'special' journey planner earlier for a route home from work, and it cheerfully suggested that I took the tube, with a "planned engineering works are taking place" caveat on the first leg of each of the journeys. Oh well, can't have everything... |
TfL's strike contingency plans...
On Jun 8, 7:44*pm, Martin Deutsch wrote:
On Jun 8, 7:28*pm, Mizter T wrote: Anyway, leaving aside the brinkmanship I see from the splash on the front page of the TfL website that they've got a number of contingency plans up their sleeve should the strike go ahead - see the news release he http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/11971.aspx That's the 'In case of tube strike, break glass' bolt-on, as a friend just described it. I also got a text from TfL this evening letting me know about it, and directing me towards the website. I guess it's going ahead, then... Ha ha, very good. However it does seem rather more comprehensive than has been the case before - I'm thinking of the Metronet workers going on strike in September '07 (was that their only strike, I forget?), which shut down much of the network, though of course the Northern, Jubilee and most of the Piccadilly lines still ran. There wasn't any universal 'acceptance' (i.e. passing) of Oyster PAYG on NR when that happened, which is the most significant element of this contingency plan. So I'm kinda curious to know whether that weapon was in TfL's strike-breaking arsenal back then. I remember during all-network Tube strikes of the past there being temporary car parks that were set up in the Royal Parks, though maybe it was only in Hyde Park, I forget. Perhaps that that shows that times have changed a bit, what with the Mall playing host to a cycle park this time. I tried asking the 'special' journey planner earlier for a route home from work, and it cheerfully suggested that I took the tube, with a "planned engineering works are taking place" caveat on the first leg of each of the journeys. *Oh well, can't have everything... Yes, I tried that too (on a strike day)! I then I forgot to mention it in my spiel. Considering this special journey planner interface appears underneath the heading "Planning your alternative journey", it is perhaps a bit misleading. |
TfL's strike contingency plans...
"Mizter T" wrote in message ... On Jun 8, 7:44 pm, Martin Deutsch wrote: On Jun 8, 7:28 pm, Mizter T wrote: Anyway, leaving aside the brinkmanship I see from the splash on the front page of the TfL website that they've got a number of contingency plans up their sleeve should the strike go ahead - see the news release he http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/11971.aspx That's the 'In case of tube strike, break glass' bolt-on, as a friend just described it. I also got a text from TfL this evening letting me know about it, and directing me towards the website. I guess it's going ahead, then... Ha ha, very good. However it does seem rather more comprehensive than has been the case before - I'm thinking of the Metronet workers going on strike in September '07 (was that their only strike, I forget?), which shut down much of the network, though of course the Northern, Jubilee and most of the Piccadilly lines still ran. There wasn't any universal 'acceptance' (i.e. passing) of Oyster PAYG on NR when that happened, which is the most significant element of this contingency plan. So I'm kinda curious to know whether that weapon was in TfL's strike-breaking arsenal back then. I remember during all-network Tube strikes of the past there being temporary car parks that were set up in the Royal Parks, though maybe it was only in Hyde Park, I forget. Perhaps that that shows that times have changed a bit, what with the Mall playing host to a cycle park this time. I tried asking the 'special' journey planner earlier for a route home from work, and it cheerfully suggested that I took the tube, with a "planned engineering works are taking place" caveat on the first leg of each of the journeys. Oh well, can't have everything... Yes, I tried that too (on a strike day)! I then I forgot to mention it in my spiel. Considering this special journey planner interface appears underneath the heading "Planning your alternative journey", it is perhaps a bit misleading. So no lines will be running at all? |
TfL's strike contingency plans...
On Jun 8, 8:45*pm, wrote: "Mizter T" wrote: On Jun 8, 7:44 pm, Martin Deutsch wrote: [snip] I tried asking the 'special' journey planner earlier for a route home from work, and it cheerfully suggested that I took the tube, with a "planned engineering works are taking place" caveat on the first leg of each of the journeys. Oh well, can't have everything... Yes, I tried that too (on a strike day)! I then I forgot to mention it in my spiel. Considering this special journey planner interface appears underneath the heading "Planning your alternative journey", it is perhaps a bit misleading. ----- So no lines will be running at all? If the strike happens, that's a possibility. It's RMT members who are going on strike, but other unions members (e.g. ASLEF) might nonetheless refuse to cross the picket lines. So it rather depends on how many people actually turn up to work. A limited service might possibly run on some lines, who knows... (P.S. Any chance you can fix your newsgroup program's broken quoting...) |
TfL's strike contingency plans...
"Mizter T" wrote in message ... On Jun 8, 8:45 pm, wrote: "Mizter T" wrote: On Jun 8, 7:44 pm, Martin Deutsch wrote: [snip] I tried asking the 'special' journey planner earlier for a route home from work, and it cheerfully suggested that I took the tube, with a "planned engineering works are taking place" caveat on the first leg of each of the journeys. Oh well, can't have everything... Yes, I tried that too (on a strike day)! I then I forgot to mention it in my spiel. Considering this special journey planner interface appears underneath the heading "Planning your alternative journey", it is perhaps a bit misleading. ----- So no lines will be running at all? If the strike happens, that's a possibility. It's RMT members who are going on strike, but other unions members (e.g. ASLEF) might nonetheless refuse to cross the picket lines. So it rather depends on how many people actually turn up to work. A limited service might possibly run on some lines, who knows... (P.S. Any chance you can fix your newsgroup program's broken quoting...) I am using Outlook Express not sure how to fix it or what you mean? |
TfL's strike contingency plans...
wrote in message
"Mizter T" wrote in message ... (P.S. Any chance you can fix your newsgroup program's broken quoting...) I am using Outlook Express not sure how to fix it or what you mean? Try: Tools Options Send News Sending Format Plain Text Settings Indent the original text with when replying or forwarding |
TfL's strike contingency plans...
wrote in message ... "Mizter T" wrote in message ... On Jun 8, 7:44 pm, Martin Deutsch wrote: On Jun 8, 7:28 pm, Mizter T wrote: Anyway, leaving aside the brinkmanship I see from the splash on the front page of the TfL website that they've got a number of contingency plans up their sleeve should the strike go ahead - see the news release he http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/11971.aspx That's the 'In case of tube strike, break glass' bolt-on, as a friend just described it. I also got a text from TfL this evening letting me know about it, and directing me towards the website. I guess it's going ahead, then... Ha ha, very good. However it does seem rather more comprehensive than has been the case before - I'm thinking of the Metronet workers going on strike in September '07 (was that their only strike, I forget?), which shut down much of the network, though of course the Northern, Jubilee and most of the Piccadilly lines still ran. There wasn't any universal 'acceptance' (i.e. passing) of Oyster PAYG on NR when that happened, which is the most significant element of this contingency plan. So I'm kinda curious to know whether that weapon was in TfL's strike-breaking arsenal back then. I remember during all-network Tube strikes of the past there being temporary car parks that were set up in the Royal Parks, though maybe it was only in Hyde Park, I forget. Perhaps that that shows that times have changed a bit, what with the Mall playing host to a cycle park this time. I tried asking the 'special' journey planner earlier for a route home from work, and it cheerfully suggested that I took the tube, with a "planned engineering works are taking place" caveat on the first leg of each of the journeys. Oh well, can't have everything... Yes, I tried that too (on a strike day)! I then I forgot to mention it in my spiel. Considering this special journey planner interface appears underneath the heading "Planning your alternative journey", it is perhaps a bit misleading. So no lines will be running at all? What a laugh... Just checked my usual commute Kings X to Walthamstow Central for Weds morning and all I get is the usual tube info plus a little note telling me there's a strike. "Alternative journey" indeed! Not unless I grow wings. Marķa |
TfL's strike contingency plans...
here's my tube strike contingency plan:
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/wiki/Brompton Guy -- http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk |
TfL's strike contingency plans...
Paul Corfield wrote:
* Most strikingly Oyster PAYG "will be accepted on all National Rail journeys within Greater London on Wednesday and Thursday, just show your Oyster card at station gate lines". In practice I'm pretty sure this means that anyone who can flash an Oyster card can travel on NR services in London. I'm sure people will simply be waved through. What about journeys where one has to go through a set of PAYG readers at one end but not at the other - e.g. Forest Gate (where readers have been installed but don't appear to be operational) to Liverpool Street (where the readers are configured for PAYG for Stratford to Liverpool Street), for travellers substituting Upton Park to central London? Will these be automatically reversed or will the PAYG user have to chase it up - especially as they can't easily do so at Forest Gate. (Or could they nip down to Wanstead Park and touch out on the readers there?) |
TfL's strike contingency plans...
Paul Corfield wrote: On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:28:54 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T wrote: Anyway, leaving aside the brinkmanship I see from the splash on the front page of the TfL website that they've got a number of contingency plans up their sleeve should the strike go ahead - see the news release he http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/11971.aspx There's several things of note... * Most strikingly Oyster PAYG "will be accepted on all National Rail journeys within Greater London on Wednesday and Thursday, just show your Oyster card at station gate lines". In practice I'm pretty sure this means that anyone who can flash an Oyster card can travel on NR services in London. I'm sure people will simply be waved through. Agreed. It'll be interesting to see what is done where Oyster PAYG is accepted for part of a National Rail (NR) route, but not for all of it - specifically how unresolved journeys will be handled. A good example of this is someone's normal commute from Bounds Green to King's Cross on the Piccadilly line - instead they'll be able to travel from Bowes Park NR station to King's Cross on FCC's Great Northern service. Normally Oyster PAYG is only accepted on the GN service between Finsbury Park and King's Cross/ all stations to Moorgate. However on strike day they'd end up simply touching-out at King's Cross as they can't touch-in at Bowes Park, and likewise on their way home touching- in at KX and not being able to touch-out at Bowes Park. Eh? I assume you believe people will be changing trains at Finsbury Park as I don't see the whole Moorgate service being able to reach Kings Cross. If Highbury, Old St and Moorgate are shut then the stopping trains will probably turn round at Drayton Park as there would be insufficient staff coverage to allow evacuation on the tunnel section to Moorgate. Argh, balls, sorry, I couldn't have made more of a mess of that if I'd tried. I used a stupid example - Bounds Green/Bowes Park to Kings Cross - as I'd totally failed to take into account the fact that the whole "GN Electrics" service goes to Moorgate, not King's Cross - at least that's what happens during the weekday before 10pm (last time I was on one it was the weekend, hence went to KX). My scenario was based around someone *not* changing trains - I'd provide a better example, but Tim Roll-Pickering has actually already done so in a separate reply to your post, so instead I'll hang on to his coat-tails on this question - his is the post about a Forest Gate to Liverpool Street journey. By the by it hadn't even crossed my mind that the GN Electrics service to Moorgate might be affected by the strike! Blindingly obvious when you think about it of course. So Old Street and Moorgate are two other stations that LU will be very keen to see if they can stay open. The plot thickens... This could be dealt with by reconfiguring all the relevant Oyster readers (on gates and standalone validators) at NR stations to simply debit the amount for the minimum journey from that station, i.e. switch off the 'entry charge' system and revert to how things were before it was introduced, and also stop unresolved journeys breaking capping. At least this is what I'd do! If it happens I imagine it might possibly be more easily implemented on a network-wide basis, as opposed to trying to single out the relevant stations. Anyway, we shall see how that plays out. I doubt there will be much tinkering with the system on the day. My guess is that there will probably be a mass reversal of maximum fares implemented after the strike to remove any such charges incurred through the inability of the system to cope with changed journey patterns. Hmm. If so that's not ideal - though of course the strike is hardly ideal either. But the point is that just one or two £4 charges could nail people's Oyster cards - sure, many people have auto-top-up enabled or have 30 quid or whatever stashed on their card, but a great many others don't keep a lot on their card - I'd wager that a good proportion of PAYG users top up little and often. Sure, a card that's been emptied as a result of £4 charges will get waved through for use on NR regardless on the strike days, but then there's the problem of trying to use it on buses, on the DLR, on LO, on any Tube services that might be running, and the problem of trying to use it in days after the strike as well. People might be told that they'll get their money back, but they might well want it there and then. Plus there's the issue of people who don't regularly pass through any one particular Tube station. My thinking was that there might just be a 'magic button' that could be pressed which would simply turn off the whole 'entry charge' system. I just had a thought that such an option might exist within the system - no extensive tinkering, just a simple network-wide instruction which simply makes the system fall back to a pre- configured mode which exists such eventualities. At least, that's how I'd handle it! Regardless of the unresolved journey issue, passing Oyster PAYG across NR would certainly lead to a degree of confusion in the mind's of many passengers, given the "always touch-in, always touch-out" mantra that's been drilled into them! Are NR staff prepared for the questioning?! I dare say there will be a message for the days of the strike and that it's been worked out in advance. No doubt - doesn't mean it's necessarily permeated the conciousness of a suburban ticket clerk who is befuddled by all these folk looking to touch-out on the non-existent Oyster reader at the end of their hard day! Looking at it more generally, TfL must be prepared to hand over some serious cash to the TOCs for effectively allowing free travel on the NR network (but shush, just make sure you don't phrase it like that!). There is a long standing reciprocal acceptance agreement between TfL and the TOCs. It used to be very informal in BR days but I understand it was substantially revised a number of years ago to better cover a wide range of scenarios affecting all the modes. I am sure you are correct that there will be money flowing from TfL. Thanks for the information. If you look at the other thread, "Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike" (sic), you'll see that SWT doesn't quite seem to share TfL's interpretation of it! * There will be "five escorted cycle rides", which will set off from their start points at 0745 - none of which are actually very far out of town, but I think it's often the final stretch into central London that puts people off cycling to work. This is being organised by the London Cycle Campaign - they've dubbed it "BikeTube(s)" and have a special website about it he http://www.biketube.org.uk/ And while I can see why this is being done I can also foresee bus lanes getting very clogged with lots of cycles. Let's be kind and say there might be a bit of conflict and it hardly helps overstuffed buses keep moving at the height of the peak. I doubt these will be massive affairs. We shall see. Some roads are already very busy cycle arteries, the bus lanes being an important part of that - I'm thinking of the A24/ A3 here. That said, the plan is for mass rides (FSVO "mass") so that is a bit different. I'm not sure I can foresee "conflict" though! (again, FSVO "conflict"!) * London Overground is apparently "operating as normal", so it seems TfL are confident that the LUL managed stations can stay open. ("Operating as normal" on the NLL of course means getting stuck behind a 'failed' freight train, or having a slow freight train sent out just in front of a passenger train.) Hmmm - interesting comment. I enquired internally as to whether Blackhorse Road would open for access to GOBLIN services. I was told it was unlikely due to the need to prioritise other locations. It would not be a surprise if the RMT deliberately target key places like Stratford, Highbury and Harrow and Wealdstone to try to ensure no trains of any description stop at these places due to there being no LUL staff. Bank on the DLR is another candidate. Hadn't even thought of Bank earlier either! I guess that surface level stations might be a bit easier to deal with on lower staffing levels, given the lack of subterranean safety issues. Bring in some non- frontline bods to do the directing and taking abuse etc and the operational staff can focus on keeping the station running. BTP for crowd control etc. Blimey, I've come across all armchair-Transport Commissioner-ey! * Extra river bus services will operate, including a "free peak shuttle" between London Eye - Westminster - Tower Bridge "every 10 minutes between 07:00-10:00 and 15:00-20:00 on both main strike days" i.e. Wednesday and Thursday. This has been done before IIRC and was very popular. So, all the fun of the fair. If it encourages some more people to 'discover' walking or cycling then perhaps there can be some good that comes from it all. Apols if the tenses got a bit confused above - that just reflects the uncertainty over whether the strike is going to happen or not. They keep you on your toes, the RMT, of that one can be sure. Given the horrendous weather forecast I would be surprised if there is much cycling or walking. The buses and trains will be hell on earth given they get more usage anyway when it rains. The weather forecast - I hadn't even checked that either! Yep, it's rubbish - currently Wednesday is a "Light Rain Shower" and Thursday is a "Heavy Rain Shower". Not ideal for tempting people back on their bikes, especially if they're not equipped or ready for it. Get out the brolly, I say! |
TfL's strike contingency plans...
On Jun 8, 11:45*pm, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll- wrote: Paul Corfield wrote: On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:28:54 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T wrote: * Most strikingly Oyster PAYG "will be accepted on all National Rail journeys within Greater London on Wednesday and Thursday, just show your Oyster card at station gate lines". In practice I'm pretty sure this means that anyone who can flash an Oyster card can travel on NR services in London. I'm sure people will simply be waved through. What about journeys where one has to go through a set of PAYG readers at one end but not at the other - e.g. Forest Gate (where readers have been installed but don't appear to be operational) to Liverpool Street (where the readers are configured for PAYG for Stratford to Liverpool Street), for travellers substituting Upton Park to central London? This was *exactly* the issue I was trying to get at earlier with my Bowes Park to King's Cross example - except, as Paul C's questioning showed, it was a bit of a rubbish example. Will these be automatically reversed or will the PAYG user have to chase it up - especially as they can't easily do so at Forest Gate. Paul C suggests in his reply that there might be "a mass reversal of maximum fares implemented after the strike to remove any such charges" - i.e. an automatic reversals after the event, with money being credited back to people's cards. If you read my reply, you'll see that I wouldn't consider this ideal - far from it in fact. My thought was that the very system that results in these £4 charges, the 'entry charge' system (whereby £4 is debited on entry and the correct fare is calculated and appropriate sum is refunded on exit) is disabled for the strike days. Instead the system could go back to how things were in the early days of PAYG - the system would charge the minimum fare on touching-in, and then on touching-out any difference was calculated and the remaining fare deducted. In this system, not touching in or out would not result in a £4 charge, instead one would simply be charged the minimum fare from that station. As I said, that's how I'd do it! But I'm not doing it, so we'll see how it works out on the day. [...] (Or could they nip down to Wanstead Park and touch out on the readers there?) They could - but it's not really something you could ask people to do! The easier alternative would be to simply avoid touching in/out at Liverpool Street, if at all possible - i.e. go through the side gate if it's open, brandishing Oyster in hand. Depends how they're doing things on the day there. Afraid I have my doubts that the gateline staff will completely comprehend the whole picture (not least because they likely get free travel on the mainline hence don't have to confront this personally). |
TfL's strike contingency plans...
Mizter T wrote:
[...] (Or could they nip down to Wanstead Park and touch out on the readers there?) They could - but it's not really something you could ask people to do! True but those in the know (admittedly unlikely in the specific example as it's the opposite direction from the tubes within walking distance) might want to take precautions. The easier alternative would be to simply avoid touching in/out at Liverpool Street, if at all possible - i.e. go through the side gate if it's open, brandishing Oyster in hand. Depends how they're doing things on the day there. Afraid I have my doubts that the gateline staff will completely comprehend the whole picture (not least because they likely get free travel on the mainline hence don't have to confront this personally). The gateline for the high number platforms at Liverpool Street is frequently the height of disorganisation - barriers where the Oyster reader is broken but not marked, too many barriers set for the wrong direction at peak hours and the staff are further down and difficult to reach and often not the most responsive. Apart from late in the evening when the barriers are usually open I don't rate the chances of many trying to get through without touching out. |
TfL's strike contingency plans...
On Jun 9, 12:47*pm, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll- wrote: Mizter T wrote: [...] (Or could they nip down to Wanstead Park and touch out on the readers there?) They could - but it's not really something you could ask people to do! True but those in the know (admittedly unlikely in the specific example as it's the opposite direction from the tubes within walking distance) might want to take precautions. Yes, though people 'in the know' going in the central London-bound direction would therefore also 'need' to take the precaution of visiting Wanstead Park first and touching-in before heading to Forest Gate to get a train to Liverpool Street. Anyway, I'm not sure it would necessarily solve the problem either - I've just done a search on TfL's "Fare finder" and Wanstead Park to Liverpool Street, the result being "Your search returned no fares." - this happens whether you correctly enter the destination as "London Liverpool Street [National Rail]", or otherwise enter it as "Liverpool Street [London Underground]". So I'm not quite sure what would happen were you to do this in practice. I was of the impression that *all* stations are paired for Oyster PAYG fares purposes, so either that's not correct - in which case what actually happens? - or otherwise the Fare finder system only returns a subset of fares for 'sensible' routes - though I had thought it showed all fares in the database (that said I have a vague memory of getting it to refuse showing a fare for another journey). The easier alternative would be to simply avoid touching in/out at Liverpool Street, if at all possible - i.e. go through the side gate if it's open, brandishing Oyster in hand. Depends how they're doing things on the day there. Afraid I have my doubts that the gateline staff will completely comprehend the whole picture (not least because they likely get free travel on the mainline hence don't have to confront this personally). The gateline for the high number platforms at Liverpool Street is frequently the height of disorganisation - barriers where the Oyster reader is broken but not marked, too many barriers set for the wrong direction at peak hours and the staff are further down and difficult to reach and often not the most responsive. Apart from late in the evening when the barriers are usually open I don't rate the chances of many trying to get through without touching out. Doesn't sound too great! It's really annoying when Oyster readers are broken but not marked - only ever seems to happen at NR gatelines, LU manage to put the faulty red sticker on it and then get it fixed pronto. Re the chances of getting through without touching out (or indeed in) - it all depends on how the management and staff at Liverpool Street interpret their instructions I suppose. Elsewhere at say London Bridge or Victoria it'll be simple - passengers brandishing an Oyster card must simply be let through (I wouldn't be too surprised to find the automatic gates simply being left open there). |
TfL's strike contingency plans...
Mizter T wrote:
Anyway, I'm not sure it would necessarily solve the problem either - I've just done a search on TfL's "Fare finder" and Wanstead Park to Liverpool Street, the result being "Your search returned no fares." - this happens whether you correctly enter the destination as "London Liverpool Street [National Rail]", or otherwise enter it as "Liverpool Street [London Underground]". So I'm not quite sure what would happen were you to do this in practice. I was of the impression that *all* stations are paired for Oyster PAYG fares purposes, so either that's not correct - in which case what actually happens? - or otherwise the Fare finder system only returns a subset of fares for 'sensible' routes - though I had thought it showed all fares in the database (that said I have a vague memory of getting it to refuse showing a fare for another journey). Is there still a late evening C2C service that runs in & out of Liverpool Street, using the Forest Gate junction and the GOBLIN to access Barking and beyond? Alternatively there have been weekends when the Liverpool Street to Ilford services aren't running. Catching the GOBLIN to Barking and then taking the Hammersmith & City to Liverpool Street as an alternative to cramming on the 25 bus surely can't be that "unsensible" a route can it? |
TfL's strike contingency plans...
"Recliner" wrote in message ... wrote in message "Mizter T" wrote in message ... (P.S. Any chance you can fix your newsgroup program's broken quoting...) I am using Outlook Express not sure how to fix it or what you mean? Try: Tools Options Send News Sending Format Plain Text Settings Indent the original text with when replying or forwarding That setting is already on? What is wrong with my messages? I do not understand. |
TfL's strike contingency plans...
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"Recliner" wrote in message ... wrote in message "Mizter T" wrote in message ... (P.S. Any chance you can fix your newsgroup program's broken quoting...) I am using Outlook Express not sure how to fix it or what you mean? Try: Tools Options Send News Sending Format Plain Text Settings Indent the original text with when replying or forwarding That setting is already on? What is wrong with my messages? I do not understand. This one is fine, but your other messages usually don't have the indents and chevrons for quoted text from the person you're responding to. |
TfL's strike contingency plans...
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TfL's strike contingency plans...
On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 05:19:52 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T wrote:
Doesn't sound too great! It's really annoying when Oyster readers are broken but not marked - only ever seems to happen at NR gatelines, LU manage to put the faulty red sticker on it and then get it fixed pronto. OTOH, NR gates with defective paper ticket mechanisms get closed (and fixed?) fairly quickly, whereas on LU they seem to take a little longer to acquire an "Oyster only" sticker. (Though having said that, the 3rd generation gates (as installed at Waterloo NR, etc) seem to be particularly rubbish in that area.) |
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