First Capital Connect strike ...
 

and Southern are NOT accepting FCC tickets.

There is not only a dispute withy drivers on the FCC Bedford -
Brighton route. There is also a dispute between Southern and FCC
about
accepting FCC tickets on Southern services.

Today I was at Gatwick having travelled down from Paddington via
Farringdon. I got there OK. However on the return journey in the
evening ALL of the FCC services northwards had been cancelled and my
only option was to travel on Southern to Victoria, and then get the
Circle Line to Paddington.

But the b'stard Southern revenue protection officers wouldn't let me
travel on my FCC only ticket. I had to pay again.

I understand that the dispute about Southern accepting FCC tickets
has
been going on for quite a while. Its about time both management teams
got together to sort this out once and for all.

CJB.

First Capital Connect strike ...
 

"CJB" wrote in message
...
and Southern are NOT accepting FCC tickets.

There is not only a dispute withy drivers on the FCC Bedford -
Brighton route. There is also a dispute between Southern and FCC
about
accepting FCC tickets on Southern services.

Today I was at Gatwick having travelled down from Paddington via
Farringdon.
That seems like a bit of a sacrifice - it's far quicker to travel via
Victoria using the Bakerloo/Victoria lines.

I got there OK. However on the return journey in the
evening ALL of the FCC services northwards had been cancelled and my
only option was to travel on Southern to Victoria, and then get the
Circle Line to Paddington.
Uh? Victoria and Bakerloo lines are *much* faster. Even a 36 or 436 bus
would be faster.


But the b'stard Southern revenue protection officers wouldn't let me
travel on my FCC only ticket. I had to pay again.

I understand that the dispute about Southern accepting FCC tickets
has been going on for quite a while.
I don't think there's any dispute. Which part of FCC ONLY do you fail to
understand?

Its about time both management teams got together to sort this out once
and for all.

This will happen some time after Hell Freezes Over, or possibly if the
Southern and Thameslink franchises are ever in the same hands again.

OTOH it's quite difficult to buy a tix between London to Gatwick that give
you flexibility of operator and London Terminal. AFAIAA the only options
a

a) An all-zone travelcard, or some combination of travelcard and
boundary-zone extension ticket.
b) Buy an ANY PERMITTED or NOT GATWICK EXPRESS ticket to/from Three Bridges
instead.

One slight piece of relief is that Gatwick Express now accept Southern tix
from Victoria if there's a problem with services from there, e.g. a spate of
fatalities on recent evenings. However, this cannot be taken for granted and
you have to ask the train manager if the concession hasn't been announced.
On one particularly chaotic evening I sneaked a ride with FCC to Brighton
from Haywards Heath with a Southern only ticket, but I doubt I would have
got much sympathy had FCC been checking tix.

D A Stocks

First Capital Connect strike ...
 

On Nov 6, 12:31*am, "David A Stocks" wrote:
But the b'stard Southern revenue protection officers wouldn't let me
travel on my FCC only ticket. I had to pay again.

I understand that the dispute about Southern accepting FCC tickets
has been going on for quite a while.

I don't think there's any dispute. Which part of FCC ONLY do you fail to
understand?

Its about time both management teams got together to sort this out once
and for all.

This will happen some time after Hell Freezes Over, or possibly if the
Southern and Thameslink franchises are ever in the same hands again.

Not true, re the specific problem: a small amount of DfT head-knocking-
together could make franchiseesa bit better at disregarding operator-
specific restrictions in times of severe disruption.

Obviously on the wider not-problem-but-whole-bloody-point of competing
tickets, "hell freezes over" is the right timeframe.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

First Capital Connect strike ...
 

"John B" wrote in message
...
On Nov 6, 12:31 am, "David A Stocks" wrote:
But the b'stard Southern revenue protection officers wouldn't let
me
travel on my FCC only ticket. I had to pay again.

I understand that the dispute about Southern accepting FCC tickets
has been going on for quite a while.

I don't think there's any dispute. Which part of FCC ONLY do you fail
to
understand?

Its about time both management teams got together to sort this out
once
and for all.

This will happen some time after Hell Freezes Over, or possibly if
the
Southern and Thameslink franchises are ever in the same hands again.

Not true, re the specific problem: a small amount of DfT
head-knocking-
together could make franchiseesa bit better at disregarding operator-
specific restrictions in times of severe disruption.

Obviously on the wider not-problem-but-whole-bloody-point of competing
tickets, "hell freezes over" is the right timeframe.

Conditions of Carriage 43 says

43. Help from Train Companies if you are stranded
If disruption caused by circumstances within the control of a Train
Company or
a Rail Service Company leaves you stranded before you have reached your
destination and the Train Company whose trains you are entitled to use
is unable
to get you to that destination by other means, any Train Company which
is in a
position to help will, if it reasonably can, either arrange to get you
to that
destination, or provide overnight accommodation for you.

So in this situation Southern already has a duty to take the passengers
and then sort it out with FCC later.

Peter Smyth

First Capital Connect strike ...
 

On Nov 6, 7:21*pm, "Peter Smyth" wrote:
"John B" wrote in message

...





On Nov 6, 12:31 am, "David A Stocks" wrote:
But the b'stard Southern revenue protection officers wouldn't let
me
travel on my FCC only ticket. I had to pay again.

I understand that the dispute about Southern accepting FCC tickets
has been going on for quite a while.

I don't think there's any dispute. Which part of FCC ONLY do you fail
to
understand?

Its about time both management teams got together to sort this out
once
and for all.

This will happen some time after Hell Freezes Over, or possibly if
the
Southern and Thameslink franchises are ever in the same hands again.

Not true, re the specific problem: a small amount of DfT
head-knocking-
together could make franchiseesa bit better at disregarding operator-
specific restrictions in times of severe disruption.

Obviously on the wider not-problem-but-whole-bloody-point of competing
tickets, "hell freezes over" is the right timeframe.

Conditions of Carriage 43 says

43. Help from Train Companies if you are stranded
If disruption caused by circumstances within the control of a Train
Company or
a Rail Service Company leaves you stranded before you have reached your
destination and the Train Company whose trains you are entitled to use
is unable
to get you to that destination by other means, any Train Company which
is in a
position to help will, if it reasonably can, either arrange to get you
to that
destination, or provide overnight accommodation for you.

So in this situation Southern already has a duty to take the passengers
and then sort it out with FCC later.

Peter Smyth- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And I got a reply from FCC ...

Customer Relations
First Capital Connect
PO Box 443
Plymouth
PL4 6WP
Tel: 0845 0264700
Fax: 0845 6769904
Website: www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk

Ref: 4948531

Dear Mr CJ Brady

Thank you for contacting us about the recent cancellation to our
services. I am sorry to learn your recent journey with us between
Gatwick and Farringdon was affected. I can appreciate how frustrating
this must be and I am sorry for the inconvenience this has caused.

While we always attempt to run the timetabled service, recently there
have been a number of issues which have affected our usual service. A
combination of factors has meant we have not had adequate driver
availability; this has led to a significant number of cancellations
although we have been working hard to ensure we operate with as little
disruption as possible. One of the issues affecting Driver numbers
involves introducing competency training on new trains and new routes
which is stretching Driver availability. This has been compounded by
Drivers not working rest days or overtime. This is not official action
or even unofficial, but as is the case with many train operators,
First Capital Connect relies on a certain amount of flexibility with
drivers working a combination of overtime and rest days to operate the
service.

We hope to resolve the situation shortly but in the meantime you can
claim for any delays that are thirty minutes or longer through the
usual process. For more details, please pick up an application form
from a member of our staff at any of our stations, or visit our
website at www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk to download a claim form.

I fully understand that as far as customer perception stands, there
are too many problems at the moment. I can only apologise that your
journey was affected but you have my assurance that we will do
whatever it takes to get the service back on track.

Regarding the use of First Capital Connect only tickets, I regret that
these are only valid on our trains as they are cheaper tickets than
any permitted. Southern also have a range of reduced price tickets
that are only valid on their services. There are however tickets
available that have no restrictions and can be used on either
operator, these are marked 'any permitted', but are slightly more
expensive.

Once again thank you for contacting us about this matter.

Yours sincerely

Jackie Hampton
Customer Relations Advisor

First Capital Connect Limited. Registered in England & Wales No.
05281077.
Registered office: 50 Eastbourne Terrace, Paddington, London, W2 6LX.

First Capital Connect strike ...
 

But now FCC are cancelling all trains from Cambridge to/from London at
the weekend ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8347363.stm

Driver shortage to disrupt trains

Rail services between West Norfolk and London will be replaced with
buses on Sunday due to a shortage of drivers.

First Capital Connect and Thameslink rely on staff working overtime
and rest days to provide a seven-day service.

A spokesman said a combination of sickness and training courses meant
they would have to bus people to stations for connecting services.

He said the priority was to get people to and from the Remembrance
Sunday service in Whitehall.

Passengers will be taken by bus to Cambridge to link up with other
services.

Drivers unavailable

Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire passengers will be transported to
Bedford where they can pick up Thameslink services.

A spokesman said many drivers were not available or had declined to
work.

He said the company was "disappointed" Remembrance Sunday services
would be among those to be disrupted.

"We are continuing to work towards a resolution to these problems and
to provide alternative transport where possible.

"We regret any inconvenience this disruption will cause."

First Capital Connect strike ...
 

CJB wrote on 06 November 2009 22:09:11 ...
But now FCC are cancelling all trains from Cambridge to/from London at
the weekend ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8347363.stm

Driver shortage to disrupt trains

Rail services between West Norfolk and London will be replaced with
buses on Sunday due to a shortage of drivers.

First Capital Connect and Thameslink rely on staff working overtime
and rest days to provide a seven-day service.

In my view that is an unprofessional way to run a 7-day service, and
should be outlawed by the DfT. The company is clearly not able to offer
a reliable 7-day service if it doesn't employ sufficient people to staff it.

What is the RMT's attitude to this, I wonder? Are they protecting their
existing working members' overtime or seeking to get more (current or
potential) members in employment?

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

First Capital Connect strike ...
 

"Peter Smyth" wrote in message
...


"John B" wrote in message
...
On Nov 6, 12:31 am, "David A Stocks" wrote:
But the b'stard Southern revenue protection officers wouldn't let me
travel on my FCC only ticket. I had to pay again.

I understand that the dispute about Southern accepting FCC tickets
has been going on for quite a while.

I don't think there's any dispute. Which part of FCC ONLY do you fail to
understand?

Its about time both management teams got together to sort this out
once
and for all.

This will happen some time after Hell Freezes Over, or possibly if the
Southern and Thameslink franchises are ever in the same hands again.

Not true, re the specific problem: a small amount of DfT head-knocking-
together could make franchiseesa bit better at disregarding operator-
specific restrictions in times of severe disruption.

Obviously on the wider not-problem-but-whole-bloody-point of competing
tickets, "hell freezes over" is the right timeframe.

Conditions of Carriage 43 says

43. Help from Train Companies if you are stranded
If disruption caused by circumstances within the control of a Train
Company or
a Rail Service Company leaves you stranded before you have reached your
destination and the Train Company whose trains you are entitled to use is
unable
to get you to that destination by other means, any Train Company which is
in a
position to help will, if it reasonably can, either arrange to get you to
that
destination, or provide overnight accommodation for you.

So in this situation Southern already has a duty to take the passengers
and then sort it out with FCC later.

Peter Smyth
More info on the FCC and tweets http://www.firstcrapitalconnect.co.uk/

First Capital Connect strike ...
 

Peter Smyth wrote

Conditions of Carriage 43 says

43. Help from Train Companies if you are stranded
If disruption caused by circumstances within the control of a Train
Company or
a Rail Service Company leaves you stranded before you have reached
your
destination and the Train Company whose trains you are entitled to
use
is unable
to get you to that destination by other means, any Train Company
which
is in a
position to help will, if it reasonably can, either arrange to get
you
to that
destination, or provide overnight accommodation for you.

So in this situation Southern already has a duty to take the
passengers
and then sort it out with FCC later.

I am not sure that CoC 43 means what you think.

"stranded before you have reached your destination" need not include
"unable to start your journey", hence the reference to overnight
accommodation, nor is it really clear that it includes inability to
start a return jouney with a return ticket. Also the drafter of CoC 43
probably didn't envisage the case, now common, of buying two singles
for a return journey.

--
Mike D

First Capital Connect strike ...
 

In message , Richard J.
writes

In my view that is an unprofessional way to run a 7-day service, and
should be outlawed by the DfT. The company is clearly not able to
offer a reliable 7-day service if it doesn't employ sufficient people
to staff it.

What is the RMT's attitude to this, I wonder? Are they protecting
their existing working members' overtime or seeking to get more
(current or potential) members in employment?

My understanding is that the RMT have no or little opinion on this;
particularly as it's mostly ASLE&F members this affects. The RMT aren't
the only union representing rail staff despite them or the media
seemingly believing so.

From the union information I have seen it seems that 'The Companies'
declared some months ago that to deal with a shortfall of drivers they
would pay extra for weekend working for 'a period' which encouraged
drivers to volunteer for rest day working. There was no consultation
with the unions, it was just declared. An ASLE&F record at the time
stated this and it was just 'noted' that it had happened.

Now this kind(!) offer has been withdrawn, not surprisingly a number of
drivers have declined to work this voluntary arrangement and instead are
choosing to have quality time at home with their families - who
wouldn't?

So the upshot is that The Companies have made a rod for their own backs
but of course, it's all the drivers/unions fault.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

First Capital Connect strike ...
 

"Peter Smyth" wrote in message
...


So in this situation Southern already has a duty to take the passengers
and then sort it out with FCC later.


However, SN don't run trains on the Thameslink route. They definitely do
*not* have a duty to carry passengers to Farringdon, especially a passenger
who ought to have purchased a ticket valid (and travelled) via Victoria in
the first place. SN have various discount offers (especially for tix
purchased online) which would make such a ticket considerably cheaper than
the route the OP chose.

D A Stocks

First Capital Connect strike ...
 

On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 00:01:43 -0000, "David A Stocks"
wrote:

However, SN don't run trains on the Thameslink route. They definitely do
*not* have a duty to carry passengers to Farringdon, especially a passenger
who ought to have purchased a ticket valid (and travelled) via Victoria in
the first place. SN have various discount offers (especially for tix
purchased online) which would make such a ticket considerably cheaper than
the route the OP chose.

By comparison, when the "round the side" via Kenny O train is severely
delayed or cancelled, LUL accept tickets from Vic to Euston without
question.

Why get picky about it? It would make more sense to be grown up about
it, as maybe SN might have a problem in future.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

First Capital Connect strike ...
 

On 6 Nov, 00:31, "David A Stocks" wrote:
"CJB" wrote in message

... and Southern are NOT accepting FCC tickets.

There is not only a dispute withy drivers on the FCC Bedford -
Brighton route. There is also a dispute between Southern and FCC
about accepting FCC tickets on Southern services.

Today I was at Gatwick having travelled down from Paddington via
Farringdon.

That seems like a bit of a sacrifice - it's far quicker to
travel via Victoria using the Bakerloo/Victoria lines.

I got there OK. However on the return journey in the
evening ALL of the FCC services northwards had been cancelled and my
only option was to travel on Southern to Victoria, and then get the
Circle Line to Paddington.

Uh? Victoria and Bakerloo lines are *much* faster. Even a 36 or 436
bus would be faster.


Interesting point. And yet travel isn't only about speed. There's
also comfort and convenience to consider.

If you're coming from an airport, you've probably got heavy luggage to
carry, so it's often better to take the route with the fewest changes
rather than the quicker one.

(Don't forget, even though Oxford Circus is a cross-platform
interchange, it's often fairly crowded with tourists standing around
looking lost etc., not the sort of place to carry a suitcase easily.)

Besides, even without luggage, many people just plain don't like the
hassle of changing anyway, and will always prefer the civilised
convenience of a journey with fewer changes, even if it is slightly
slower than your preferred route.

First Capital Connect strike ...
 

On 7 Nov, 09:00, "
wrote:
On 6 Nov, 00:31, "David A Stocks" wrote:



"CJB" wrote in message

... and Southern are NOT accepting FCC tickets.

There is not only a dispute withy drivers on the FCC Bedford -
Brighton route. There is also a dispute between Southern and FCC
about accepting FCC tickets on Southern services.

Today I was at Gatwick having travelled down from Paddington via
Farringdon.

That seems like a bit of a sacrifice - it's far quicker to
travel via Victoria using the Bakerloo/Victoria lines.


Interesting point. *And yet travel isn't only about speed. *There's
also comfort and convenience to consider.

If you're coming from an airport, you've probably got heavy luggage to
carry, so it's often better to take the route with the fewest changes
rather than the quicker one.


Actually, now I think about it ... Considering what most of the
posters in this group are like, it's possible he just wanted to go
through Blackfriars and see if he could see anything of the building
work there.

First Capital Connect strike ...
 

wrote in message
...
On 6 Nov, 00:31, "David A Stocks" wrote:
"CJB" wrote in message

...
and Southern are NOT accepting FCC tickets.

There is not only a dispute withy drivers on the FCC Bedford -
Brighton route. There is also a dispute between Southern and FCC
about accepting FCC tickets on Southern services.

Today I was at Gatwick having travelled down from Paddington via
Farringdon.

That seems like a bit of a sacrifice - it's far quicker to
travel via Victoria using the Bakerloo/Victoria lines.

I got there OK. However on the return journey in the
evening ALL of the FCC services northwards had been cancelled and my
only option was to travel on Southern to Victoria, and then get the
Circle Line to Paddington.

Uh? Victoria and Bakerloo lines are *much* faster. Even a 36 or 436
bus would be faster.


Interesting point. And yet travel isn't only about speed. There's
also comfort

Most of FCC's rolling stock on the route is extremely uncomfortable - the
exceptions are the 377s and ex-Brighton Express 319s, both of which had
their interiors specified by Southern or their predecessors.

and convenience to consider.

The change at Farringdon is a nightmare in either direction at most times of
day. It has all of the congestion you would find at Oxford Circus,
Paddington and Victoria AND you're forced to negotiate it on long and narrow
staircases instead of escalators or a cross-platform interchange. Using
Farringdon is *not* an intelligent way to reduce the number of changes,
especially as the FCC service crawls through the Thameslink core.

D A Stocks

First Capital Connect strike ...
 

David A Stocks wrote:

wrote in message
...
On 6 Nov, 00:31, "David A Stocks" wrote:
"CJB" wrote in message

...
and Southern are NOT accepting FCC tickets.

There is not only a dispute withy drivers on the FCC Bedford -
Brighton route. There is also a dispute between Southern and FCC
about accepting FCC tickets on Southern services.

Today I was at Gatwick having travelled down from Paddington via
Farringdon.

That seems like a bit of a sacrifice - it's far quicker to
travel via Victoria using the Bakerloo/Victoria lines.

I got there OK. However on the return journey in the
evening ALL of the FCC services northwards had been cancelled and my
only option was to travel on Southern to Victoria, and then get the
Circle Line to Paddington.

Uh? Victoria and Bakerloo lines are *much* faster. Even a 36 or 436
bus would be faster.


Interesting point. And yet travel isn't only about speed. There's
also comfort

Most of FCC's rolling stock on the route is extremely uncomfortable

IMHO it's still much better than the cramped little toy-trains on the
Victoria and Bakerloo. (I admit, I'm biased because I'm slightly
claustrophobic. Maybe the original poster is too?)

- the
exceptions are the 377s and ex-Brighton Express 319s, both of which had
their interiors specified by Southern or their predecessors.

and convenience to consider.

The change at Farringdon is a nightmare in either direction at most times of
day. It has all of the congestion you would find at Oxford Circus,
Paddington and Victoria AND you're forced to negotiate it on long and narrow
staircases instead of escalators or a cross-platform interchange. Using
Farringdon is *not* an intelligent way to reduce the number of changes,
especially as the FCC service crawls through the Thameslink core.

Farringdon can get busy in the rush-hours, I'll grant you that, but in
my experience, off-peak it's a lot less crowded than either Oxford
Circus, Paddington or Victoria. And don't forget there's also a lot
of natural daylight at Farringdon, which helps to give the illusion of
space compared to a deep tube station.

Oh, and you mention long staircases, but they're not that long.
They're still quite a bit shorter than the walk from Southern Sussex
Coast platforms at Victoria to the tube ticket hall.

Just accept that what you personally look for in a journey isn't
always what everyone else looks for. Everyone's taste is different.
It's ridiculous for you to claim that everyone "ought" to only make
the sort of journeys that you like.