Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

Journey in question is West Ruislip to Wembley Stadium on Chiltern
Railways. Currently the fare for this journey is £1.10 Off Peak, the
same as a Z6-Z4 Off Peak LU/TFL journey. I've had a read of some
documents and in the New Year this trip will be priced under a "Train
Company ( National Rail)" set of fares resulting in a new fare of
£1.70 - this seems a staggering percentage increase. I guess there
will be similar increases in fares on other existing Oyster NR routes
to compensate for Oyster PAYG going network wide ?

uc

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 14:03:49 +0000, Paul Corfield wrote:

Journey in question is West Ruislip to Wembley Stadium on Chiltern
Railways. Currently the fare for this journey is £1.10 Off Peak, the
same as a Z6-Z4 Off Peak LU/TFL journey. I've had a read of some
documents and in the New Year this trip will be priced under a "Train
Company ( National Rail)" set of fares resulting in a new fare of
£1.70 - this seems a staggering percentage increase. I guess there
will be similar increases in fares on other existing Oyster NR routes
to compensate for Oyster PAYG going network wide ?

Having looked at the Mayoral Decision notice and the values therein then
I think you've identified the applicable fares correctly.

That's disappointing to hear, though not really surprising (easy come,
easy go).

I take it that interavailable routes will still remain on the LU
farescale? Ironically this might make South Ruislip - Marylebone
cheaper than Northolt Park - Marylebone.

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

On 14 Nov, 14:21, asdf wrote:

I take it that interavailable routes will still remain on the LU
farescale? Ironically this might make South Ruislip - Marylebone
cheaper than Northolt Park - Marylebone.

The fare changes in the New Year do give rise to some intriguing
situations occurring. For example, and correct me if I am mistaken,
there is a special set of fares for a journey combining National Rail
and TFL, so would one have to pay a different set of fares for the
following journey depending on which mode of travel you used ?

South Ruislip - Oxford Circus

Route 1: South Ruislip ( Chiltern ) Marylebone ( Central Line) Oxford
Circus

Route 2: South Ruislip ( Central Line) Oxford Circus.

cheers,
uc

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

On 15 Nov, 11:03, Uncle-C wrote:
On 14 Nov, 14:21, asdf wrote:

I take it that interavailable routes will still remain on the LU
farescale? Ironically this might make South Ruislip - Marylebone
cheaper than Northolt Park - Marylebone.

The fare changes in the New Year do give rise to some intriguing
situations occurring. For example, and correct me if I am mistaken,
there is a special set of fares for a journey combining National Rail
and TFL, so would one have to pay a different set of fares for the
following journey depending on which mode of travel you used ?

South Ruislip - Oxford Circus

Route 1: South Ruislip ( Chiltern ) Marylebone ( Central Line) Oxford
Circus

Route 2: South Ruislip ( Central Line) Oxford Circus.

cheers,
uc

And presumably the cheaper fares will not be the ones where you can
validate at an interchange.

But underneath all this is a common thread which is that all the
genuine problems caused by Oyster that TfL denies are problems on a
much larger scale on NR, and can't be solved piecemeal.

TfL should have addressed the issues in the first place instead of
just saying "tough, it only affects some people". This is not the
fault of NR, it's the fault of TfL for introducing a system with
serious flaws which they can't ignore when they are scaled up.

As a formerly disenfranchised resident of south London I am gloating
hugely at the immintent implosion of Oyster and laughing at all the
apologists who denied the problems.

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

On 15 Nov, 11:03, Uncle-C wrote:
On 14 Nov, 14:21, asdf wrote:

I take it that interavailable routes will still remain on the LU
farescale? Ironically this might make South Ruislip - Marylebone
cheaper than Northolt Park - Marylebone.

The fare changes in the New Year do give rise to some intriguing
situations occurring. For example, and correct me if I am mistaken,
there is a special set of fares for a journey combining National Rail
and TFL, so would one have to pay a different set of fares for the
following journey depending on which mode of travel you used ?

South Ruislip - Oxford Circus

Route 1: South Ruislip ( Chiltern ) Marylebone ( Central Line) Oxford
Circus

Route 2: South Ruislip ( Central Line) Oxford Circus.

cheers,
uc

Bakerloo surely
Or Paddington Parly via West Ruislip

HTH

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

On Nov 15, 11:36*am, MIG wrote:
The fare changes in the New Year do give rise to some intriguing
situations occurring. For example, and correct me if I am mistaken,
there is a special set of fares for a journey combining National Rail
and TFL, so would one have to pay a different set of fares for the
following journey depending on which mode of travel you used ?

South Ruislip - Oxford Circus

Route 1: South Ruislip ( Chiltern ) Marylebone ( Central Line) Oxford
Circus

Route 2: South Ruislip ( Central Line) Oxford Circus.

And presumably the cheaper fares will not be the ones where you can
validate at an interchange.

I don't understand your point here. If you get the direct Central Line
train, you'll be charged the Tube fare; if you touch out of Chiltern
and into LU at Marylebone, then you'll be charged the Tube+NR fare.
That's straightforward, simple, and doesn't require any effort on your
part to be charged the right fare.

But underneath all this is a common thread which is that all the
genuine problems caused by Oyster that TfL denies are problems on a
much larger scale on NR, and can't be solved piecemeal.

TfL should have addressed the issues in the first place instead of
just saying "tough, it only affects some people". *This is not the
fault of NR, it's the fault of TfL for introducing a system with
serious flaws which they can't ignore when they are scaled up.

Err, what?

As a formerly disenfranchised resident of south London I am gloating
hugely at the immintent implosion of Oyster and laughing at all the
apologists who denied the problems.

Err, what?

Oyster will be implemented on NR from January. It'll be more expensive
and annoying than the implementation on TfL modes, especially if the
ridiculous Extension Permit plan survives. So your life will be more
annoying than that of North Londoners, but less annoying than it was.

Meanwhile, the procedure for people who currently use Oyster on TfL or
on interavailable-ticketing services *won't change at all*. How on
earth is that going to lead to an 'implosion'?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

John B wrote:


Oyster will be implemented on NR from January. It'll be more expensive
and annoying than the implementation on TfL modes, especially if the
ridiculous Extension Permit plan survives. So your life will be more
annoying than that of North Londoners, but less annoying than it was.

Meanwhile, the procedure for people who currently use Oyster on TfL or
on interavailable-ticketing services *won't change at all*. How on
earth is that going to lead to an 'implosion'?


I can foresee one problem - where current NR-originated PAYG journeys
are a bit of a bargain and people have got used to them, they sometimes
instantly stop being a bit of a bargain on 2/1/2010 and sometimes carry
on being a bit of a bargain, while Overground journeys (which Joe Public
won't necessarily judge differently from NR) remain so. Result: confusion.

Ahem. Example time.

West Ealing (Z3) - Paddington (Z1)

Currently: £2.70/£2.20 (Peak/Offpeak).
Moving to: £2.60/£2.00

Trebles all round!

Now, supposing you want to extend one stop from Paddington to a
convenient Tube station:

West Ealing (Z3) - Edgware Road (Z1)

Currently: £2.70/£2.20
Moving to: £3.70/£3.10

This is the £1.10 premium seemingly applied to any extension from NR to
LU in Z1, but not in other zones. It only really becomes obvious as a
big price hike if you've got used to an existing PAYG-on-NR deployment
like FGW's.

Now a question - does anyone know at what farescales the following would
be charged at?

Ealing Broadway - Paddington
Ealing Broadway - Edgware Road

Both are, like West Ealing, Z3-Z1 journeys currently charged at
£2.70/£2.20, but there's a case for multiple fare scales applying:

EB - Padd

LU £2.70/£2.40
or
NR £2.60/£2.00


EB - Edgw.Rd.

LU £2.70/£2.40
or
NR/TfL £3.70/£3.10

I'm frankly bemused by all this, but at present I'll look to use PAYG on
NR for journeys not including Z1, where it makes sense (I don't usually
have a travelcard, so OEP idiocies don't apply).

Tom

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

On 16 Nov, 11:05, John B wrote:
On Nov 15, 11:36*am, MIG wrote:

The fare changes in the New Year do give rise to some intriguing
situations occurring. For example, and correct me if I am mistaken,
there is a special set of fares for a journey combining National Rail
and TFL, so would one have to pay a different set of fares for the
following journey depending on which mode of travel you used ?

South Ruislip - Oxford Circus

Route 1: South Ruislip ( Chiltern ) Marylebone ( Central Line) Oxford
Circus

Route 2: South Ruislip ( Central Line) Oxford Circus.

And presumably the cheaper fares will not be the ones where you can
validate at an interchange.

I don't understand your point here. If you get the direct Central Line
train, you'll be charged the Tube fare; if you touch out of Chiltern
and into LU at Marylebone, then you'll be charged the Tube+NR fare.
That's straightforward, simple, and doesn't require any effort on your
part to be charged the right fare.

Just that a system has just been introduced whereby you are assumed to
have gone the more expensive way unless you touch on the cheaper
route. This is going to be reversed in some situations, such as the
Ruislip one.


But underneath all this is a common thread which is that all the
genuine problems caused by Oyster that TfL denies are problems on a
much larger scale on NR, and can't be solved piecemeal.

TfL should have addressed the issues in the first place instead of
just saying "tough, it only affects some people". *This is not the
fault of NR, it's the fault of TfL for introducing a system with
serious flaws which they can't ignore when they are scaled up.

Err, what?

We've needed on-train validation and reasonably priced paper
extensions for years, and now they are needed more than ever, but not
on the cards it seems.


As a formerly disenfranchised resident of south London I am gloating
hugely at the immintent implosion of Oyster and laughing at all the
apologists who denied the problems.

Err, what?

Oyster will be implemented on NR from January. It'll be more expensive
and annoying than the implementation on TfL modes, especially if the
ridiculous Extension Permit plan survives. So your life will be more
annoying than that of North Londoners, but less annoying than it was.

Meanwhile, the procedure for people who currently use Oyster on TfL or
on interavailable-ticketing services *won't change at all*. How on
earth is that going to lead to an 'implosion'?

Well, I'll stand back and watch. I'll be using all-zones out-boundary
paper travelcards for the foreseeable.

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

On 16 Nov, 17:14, Tom Barry wrote:

I'm frankly bemused by all this, but at present I'll look to use PAYG on
NR for journeys not including Z1, where it makes sense (I don't usually
have a travelcard, so OEP idiocies don't apply).

Tom

I've looked at the preliminary fares tables which are in the "Mayoral
Document" and it seems that Off Peak travel from Zones 4/3/2 to Zone 1
on NR is going to be cheaper than the equivalent parallel journey if
it were undertaken on TFL.

e.g Stratford (Zone 3) - Liverpool Street (Zone1)

PAYG Off Peak Single NR : £2.00
PAYG Off Peak Single TFL: £2.40


So it will be cheaper to travel on National Rail, a fact that would
surprise a lot of the average punters who, unless explicitly told,
will remain blissfully unaware !

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

Uncle-C wrote:
On 16 Nov, 17:14, Tom Barry wrote:

I'm frankly bemused by all this, but at present I'll look to use
PAYG on NR for journeys not including Z1, where it makes sense (I
don't usually have a travelcard, so OEP idiocies don't apply).

Tom

I've looked at the preliminary fares tables which are in the "Mayoral
Document" and it seems that Off Peak travel from Zones 4/3/2 to Zone 1
on NR is going to be cheaper than the equivalent parallel journey if
it were undertaken on TFL.

e.g Stratford (Zone 3) - Liverpool Street (Zone1)

PAYG Off Peak Single NR : £2.00
PAYG Off Peak Single TFL: £2.40

So it will be cheaper to travel on National Rail, a fact that would
surprise a lot of the average punters who, unless explicitly told,
will remain blissfully unaware !

Only if you assume that the long standing (ie well before PAYG on NR was
thought of) dual availability of LU fares on that route will definitely be
cancelled though...

That hasn't been explicitly clarified anywhere, AFAICT...

What about a journey such as West Brompton - Wimbledon with PAYG. They won't
be able to tell whether you used LU or NR as far as I can tell...

Paul S

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:53:14 -0000, Paul Scott wrote:

e.g Stratford (Zone 3) - Liverpool Street (Zone1)

PAYG Off Peak Single NR : £2.00
PAYG Off Peak Single TFL: £2.40

So it will be cheaper to travel on National Rail, a fact that would
surprise a lot of the average punters who, unless explicitly told,
will remain blissfully unaware !

Only if you assume that the long standing (ie well before PAYG on NR was
thought of) dual availability of LU fares on that route will definitely be
cancelled though...

The fact that LU fares are valid on NR between those stations doesn't
prevent NR fares also being valid...

Moreover, interavailability works both ways - so the cheaper NR fare
should be valid on LU between those stations.

Whether they will actually allow you to use that fare (and whether
they can legally prevent you from doing so) is another question...

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

In article
,
(Uncle-C) wrote:

On 16 Nov, 17:14, Tom Barry wrote:

I'm frankly bemused by all this, but at present I'll look to use PAYG
on NR for journeys not including Z1, where it makes sense (I don't
usually have a travelcard, so OEP idiocies don't apply).

I've looked at the preliminary fares tables which are in the "Mayoral
Document" and it seems that Off Peak travel from Zones 4/3/2 to Zone 1
on NR is going to be cheaper than the equivalent parallel journey if
it were undertaken on TFL.

e.g Stratford (Zone 3) - Liverpool Street (Zone1)

PAYG Off Peak Single NR : £2.00
PAYG Off Peak Single TFL: £2.40


So it will be cheaper to travel on National Rail, a fact that would
surprise a lot of the average punters who, unless explicitly told,
will remain blissfully unaware !

I'd settle for fares to Putney not being at a premium over fares to East
Putney. They are the same if my amount of London travelling is enough to
justify a Day Travelcard from Cambridge but not otherwise, including when,
like tonight, I'm staying in Putney. With the new FCC fares I expect that
Day Travelcards from Cambridge will become even less likely to be
justified.

Although there was a national announcement about NR fares today it didn't
seem to have reached the FCC web site.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

On Nov 16, 5:14*pm, Tom Barry wrote:
Ahem. *Example time.

West Ealing (Z3) - Paddington (Z1)

Currently: £2.70/£2.20 (Peak/Offpeak).
Moving to: £2.60/£2.00

Trebles all round!

Now, supposing you want to extend one stop from Paddington to a
convenient Tube station:

West Ealing (Z3) - Edgware Road (Z1)

Currently: £2.70/£2.20
Moving to: £3.70/£3.10

This is the £1.10 premium seemingly applied to any extension from NR to
LU in Z1, but not in other zones. *It only really becomes obvious as a
big price hike if you've got used to an existing PAYG-on-NR deployment
like FGW's.

Now a question - does anyone know at what farescales the following would
be charged at?

Ealing Broadway - Paddington
Ealing Broadway - Edgware Road

Both are, like West Ealing, Z3-Z1 journeys currently charged at
£2.70/£2.20, but there's a case for multiple fare scales applying:

EB - Padd

LU £2.70/£2.40
or
NR £2.60/£2.00

EB - Edgw.Rd.

LU £2.70/£2.40
or
NR/TfL £3.70/£3.10

Yes, this one is interesting - I'd forgotten the Paddington suburban
NR platforms shared a gateline with the H&C.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

John B wrote:
On Nov 16, 5:14 pm, Tom Barry wrote:

Now a question - does anyone know at what farescales the following
would be charged at?

Ealing Broadway - Paddington
Ealing Broadway - Edgware Road


Yes, this one is interesting - I'd forgotten the Paddington suburban
NR platforms shared a gateline with the H&C.

Seems to be the same conundrum as my West Brompton - Wimbledon upthread.

Any journey with a common LU/NR gateline at both ends appears to be
debatable given the info published so far. IE it isn't just those routes
with 'historic' dual availability?

Paul S

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

On 14 Nov, 13:17, Uncle-C wrote:
Journey in question is West *Ruislip to Wembley Stadium on Chiltern
Railways. Currently the fare for this journey is £1.10 Off Peak, the
same as a Z6-Z4 Off Peak LU/TFL journey. *I've had a read of some
documents and in the New Year this trip will be priced under a "Train
Company ( National Rail)" set of fares resulting in a new fare of
£1.70 - this seems a staggering percentage increase. I guess there
will be similar increases in fares on other existing Oyster NR *routes
to compensate for Oyster PAYG going network wide ?

uc

The Mayoral document is confusing
Page 17
It excludes Northolt Park and the sudburies from from TFL Charges by
omiting the O
I dont think this is true

for anyone else finding it difficult to locate this doculment it is
MD457

HTH Phil

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 10:00:57 -0800 (PST),
MIG wrote:
On 16 Nov, 11:05, John B wrote:
On Nov 15, 11:36*am, MIG wrote:


And presumably the cheaper fares will not be the ones where you can
validate at an interchange.

I don't understand your point here. If you get the direct Central Line
train, you'll be charged the Tube fare; if you touch out of Chiltern
and into LU at Marylebone, then you'll be charged the Tube+NR fare.
That's straightforward, simple, and doesn't require any effort on your
part to be charged the right fare.

Just that a system has just been introduced whereby you are assumed to
have gone the more expensive way unless you touch on the cheaper
route. This is going to be reversed in some situations, such as the
Ruislip one.


Travelling via London Euston NR/LU OSI has always attracted a premium
over avoiding the explicit Z1 touch. (Up until recently, when travelling
in the middle of the day it was cheaper to walk to KX to join the
underground than to continue your journey at Euston as going to KX
forced two separate journeys)

I'm not sure what happens now - theres a route validator at Willseden
Junction but there are routes from say Harrow and Wealdstone to not Z1
via the Bakerloo line that didn't require a touch in Z1 so were charged
not Z1.

Tim.


--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://www.woodall.me.uk/

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

wrote in message
...
On 14 Nov, 13:17, Uncle-C wrote:
Journey in question is West Ruislip to Wembley Stadium on Chiltern
Railways. Currently the fare for this journey is £1.10 Off Peak, the
same as a Z6-Z4 Off Peak LU/TFL journey. I've had a read of some
documents and in the New Year this trip will be priced under a "Train
Company ( National Rail)" set of fares resulting in a new fare of
£1.70 - this seems a staggering percentage increase. I guess there
will be similar increases in fares on other existing Oyster NR routes
to compensate for Oyster PAYG going network wide ?

uc

The Mayoral document is confusing
Page 17
It excludes Northolt Park and the sudburies from from TFL Charges by
omiting the O
I dont think this is true

That isn't the purpose of that table. It lists the stations where the
'higher entry charge' applies, as under the current system.

That is not quite the same as 'NR fares apply' from this station.

Paul S

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

On 17 Nov, 11:47, "Paul Scott" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On 14 Nov, 13:17, Uncle-C wrote:

Journey in question is West Ruislip to Wembley Stadium on Chiltern
Railways. Currently the fare for this journey is £1.10 Off Peak, the
same as a Z6-Z4 Off Peak LU/TFL journey. I've had a read of some
documents and in the New Year this trip will be priced under a "Train
Company ( National Rail)" set of fares resulting in a new fare of
£1.70 - this seems a staggering percentage increase. I guess there
will be similar increases in fares on other existing Oyster NR routes
to compensate for Oyster PAYG going network wide ?

uc
The Mayoral document is confusing
Page 17
It excludes Northolt Park and the sudburies from from TFL Charges by
omiting the O
I dont think this is true

That isn't the purpose of that table. It lists the stations where the
'higher entry charge' applies, as under the current system.

That is not quite the same as 'NR fares apply' from this station.

Paul S

Thanks
I guess this means un unresolved PAYG is £5.00 instead of £4.00

HTH

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 23:08:02 -0000, Paul Scott wrote:

Now a question - does anyone know at what farescales the following
would be charged at?

Ealing Broadway - Paddington
Ealing Broadway - Edgware Road


Yes, this one is interesting - I'd forgotten the Paddington suburban
NR platforms shared a gateline with the H&C.

Seems to be the same conundrum as my West Brompton - Wimbledon upthread.

Presumably it'll be handled as the possibly-via-Z1 journeys are now,
i.e. it'll be assumed you took the quickest and most direct route, and
if there is a longer route that is cheaper, an interchange validator
will be provided to allow you to claim the cheaper fare.

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

"asdf" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 23:08:02 -0000, Paul Scott wrote:

Now a question - does anyone know at what farescales the following
would be charged at?

Ealing Broadway - Paddington
Ealing Broadway - Edgware Road


Yes, this one is interesting - I'd forgotten the Paddington suburban
NR platforms shared a gateline with the H&C.

Seems to be the same conundrum as my West Brompton - Wimbledon upthread.

Presumably it'll be handled as the possibly-via-Z1 journeys are now,
i.e. it'll be assumed you took the quickest and most direct route, and
if there is a longer route that is cheaper, an interchange validator
will be provided to allow you to claim the cheaper fare.

Can't see that being an issue, I'm thinking of District directly or LO/SWT
via Clapham Junction, both are Z2-Z3 journeys. A default 'via Z1' fare would
be rather odd...

I'm just thinking with a common gateline at Wimbledon there is no way for
the system to tell if your route involved NR, just like Ealing Broadway -
Paddington shared H&C/NR gateline.

Paul S

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

On 16 Nov, 17:14, Tom Barry wrote:
Ahem. *Example time.

West Ealing (Z3) - Paddington (Z1)

Currently: £2.70/£2.20 (Peak/Offpeak).
Moving to: £2.60/£2.00

Not sure where you get the new fares from, but I have it on *very*
good authority (Fares Director, FGW, last night, face-to-face) that
there will be NO DIFFERENCE, as now, in fares from FGW zonal stations
and the TfL fare to any zone. FGW will continue to use TfL zonal
fares.

Apparently agreed with TfL when decision taken to accept Oyster.

In email communications, I have the same statement from Chiltern. That
their zonal fares West Ruislip inwards will be trhe same as the TfL
zonal fares and they are NOT adopting the higher TOC zonal fares.

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

Chris wrote:
On 16 Nov, 17:14, Tom Barry wrote:
Ahem. Example time.

West Ealing (Z3) - Paddington (Z1)

Currently: £2.70/£2.20 (Peak/Offpeak).
Moving to: £2.60/£2.00

Not sure where you get the new fares from, but I have it on *very*
good authority (Fares Director, FGW, last night, face-to-face) that
there will be NO DIFFERENCE, as now, in fares from FGW zonal stations
and the TfL fare to any zone. FGW will continue to use TfL zonal
fares.

Apparently agreed with TfL when decision taken to accept Oyster.

In email communications, I have the same statement from Chiltern. That
their zonal fares West Ruislip inwards will be trhe same as the TfL
zonal fares and they are NOT adopting the higher TOC zonal fares.

As we seem to be teasing out, FGW would have difficulty having different
fares, because of their common gatelines with LU at some key stations...

Paul S

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:55:09 +0000, Paul Corfield wrote:

In email communications, I have the same statement from Chiltern. That
their zonal fares West Ruislip inwards will be trhe same as the TfL
zonal fares and they are NOT adopting the higher TOC zonal fares.

Based on what you've written then it sounds to me as if there has been
an agreement to extend the interavailability provisions for these
particular lines. I am slightly surprised about that but the common
gatelines at Ealing Broadway and Paddington are certainly an issue. I
wonder also if the fact that Marylebone is an OSI might have played a
part in the Chiltern decision?

Why would it? The only difference I can see it making is that it makes
charging the higher fares technically possible (as there's an
obligatory "route validation" at Marylebone) - but they've decided
*not* to charge the higher fares.

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:08:17 -0000, Paul Scott wrote:

Now a question - does anyone know at what farescales the following
would be charged at?

Ealing Broadway - Paddington
Ealing Broadway - Edgware Road


Yes, this one is interesting - I'd forgotten the Paddington suburban
NR platforms shared a gateline with the H&C.

Seems to be the same conundrum as my West Brompton - Wimbledon upthread.

Presumably it'll be handled as the possibly-via-Z1 journeys are now,
i.e. it'll be assumed you took the quickest and most direct route, and
if there is a longer route that is cheaper, an interchange validator
will be provided to allow you to claim the cheaper fare.

Can't see that being an issue, I'm thinking of District directly or LO/SWT
via Clapham Junction, both are Z2-Z3 journeys. A default 'via Z1' fare would
be rather odd...

I wasn't suggesting it would be charged as via Z1. I was suggesting
that the default fare would be the District one, and if the Clapham
Junction route were cheaper, a route validator would be provided there
to allow passengers to claim the cheaper fare.

Oyster PAYG on National Rail from 02.01.10 : A fare question.
 

"asdf" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:08:17 -0000, Paul Scott wrote:

Seems to be the same conundrum as my West Brompton - Wimbledon upthread.

Presumably it'll be handled as the possibly-via-Z1 journeys are now,
i.e. it'll be assumed you took the quickest and most direct route, and
if there is a longer route that is cheaper, an interchange validator
will be provided to allow you to claim the cheaper fare.

Can't see that being an issue, I'm thinking of District directly or LO/SWT
via Clapham Junction, both are Z2-Z3 journeys. A default 'via Z1' fare
would
be rather odd...

I wasn't suggesting it would be charged as via Z1. I was suggesting
that the default fare would be the District one, and if the Clapham
Junction route were cheaper, a route validator would be provided there
to allow passengers to claim the cheaper fare.

ISWYM now, thanks. On the face of it. the route above would intuitively
need to deal with three options; District only (direct at TfL rate),
Overground + SWT (TfL+NR) , and SN + SWT(NR)?

But AIUI from the fare tables, the latter options ought to be more expensive
than the direct, so if differentiation was to be achieved with a route
validator, why would anyone bother?

Paul S

Paul