"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
...

There was indeed - the "Golden Arrow" ran from London to Paris
overnight, via Dunkerque. Only first-class passengers (I think I am
right in saying) remained on the trains; the others had to get off.
This was the "Night Ferry" service beloved of generations of students,
and used by many of my contemporaries as a cheap way of travelling
between the two capitals. But the train service was considered the last
word in luxury when it was inaugurated.

The 'Golden Arrow' was a day service, usually via Dover-Calais. The train
did not go across. In its later years, the Golden Arrow was First Class
Pullman plus second class ordinary coaches.

The 'Night Ferry' (Dover-Dunkerque) used blue 'Wagons-Lits' - quite an
unusual sight for commuters waiting at Orpington or Bromley South. The
wagons-lits were indeed first class only, although there were both single
berth and twin berth compartments.

Peter

In message , Mrs Redboots
writes

Troy Steadman wrote to uk.transport.london on Sat, 18 Dec 2004:

Didn't there used to be trains that instead of disgorging their
passengers at the docks actually drove (drove?) steamed on to sidings
on the decks of ships then steamed off Stena-like to continue their
journey across Europe?

There was indeed - the "Golden Arrow" ran from London to Paris
overnight, via Dunkerque. Only first-class passengers (I think I am
right in saying) remained on the trains; the others had to get off.

Not quite correct. The Golden Arrow was the day-time service via
Dover-Calais. The traditional departure time was 11.00am, arriving in
Paris soon after 5.00pm. There were separate trains either side of the
channel, connecting with the SS Canterbury, but carriages were not taken
on board the ferry for this service.

This was the "Night Ferry" service beloved of generations of students,

That was a different service, and was indeed the one on which passengers
could stay in their cabins for the channel crossing - and this was the
one that used the Dover-Dunkerque (rather than Calais) route.
Traditionally leaving Victoria at 8.00pm and arriving in two sections
(one to Brussels the other to Paris) at 9.00am the next morning.

and used by many of my contemporaries as a cheap way of travelling
between the two capitals. But the train service was considered the last
word in luxury when it was inaugurated.

Indeed, the Golden Arrow was all-Pullman when it started, and some of
the restored carriages are still in use today on the UK part of the
Orient Express. The Night Ferry included Wagon-Lits and ordinary
(non-Pullman) coaching stock, and wasn't quite so palatial.

The OP should note that the *train* didn't actually drive onto the ferry
- only the sleeping cars and luggage van(s) crossed the channel. They
were detached at the port station and then shunted on/off the ferry at
either end.

--
Paul Terry

Peter Masson wrote to uk.transport.london on Sat, 18 Dec 2004:

The 'Golden Arrow' was a day service, usually via Dover-Calais. The train
did not go across. In its later years, the Golden Arrow was First Class
Pullman plus second class ordinary coaches.

Oh? I stand corrected.

The 'Night Ferry' (Dover-Dunkerque) used blue 'Wagons-Lits' - quite an
unusual sight for commuters waiting at Orpington or Bromley South. The
wagons-lits were indeed first class only, although there were both single
berth and twin berth compartments.

The hoi polloi had to change trains, and got very little sleep - but
most students thought it worth it!
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 18 December 2004

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...

The OP should note that the *train* didn't actually drive onto the ferry

Apologies, but for some reason this conjured up visions (bearing in mind
that the train might have come from Victoria behind one of the E5000
electric locomotives) of a third-rail equipped train deck on the ship -
perhaps a good idea too far.

Regards

Jonathan

"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
...

The hoi polloi had to change trains, and got very little sleep - but
most students thought it worth it!

To Paris the Newhaven - Dieppe route was cheaper, and probably more
uncomfortable.

Peter

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...

This was the "Night Ferry" service beloved of generations of students,

That was a different service, and was indeed the one on which passengers
could stay in their cabins for the channel crossing - and this was the
one that used the Dover-Dunkerque (rather than Calais) route.
Traditionally leaving Victoria at 8.00pm and arriving in two sections
(one to Brussels the other to Paris) at 9.00am the next morning.

It actually left Victoria at 10.00 pm (9.00 pm during GMT). The up train was
booked to leave Dover at 7.20 am and run via Chatham and Catford. More often
than not it ran in its late path, 8.10 am from Dover via Tonbridge and Kent
House, arriving Victoria 9.38 am. Commuters whose train was routed into
platform 1 at Victoria used to curse it, as they had to leave by the side
gate into Hudson Place, making for a long walk round to the Underground.

Peter

"Peter Masson" wrote in message
...

"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
...

The hoi polloi had to change trains, and got very little sleep - but
most students thought it worth it!

To Paris the Newhaven - Dieppe route was cheaper, and probably more
uncomfortable.

It certainly was. That was the last time I was seasick :-(

After that, changing at Port Bou at stupid o'clock the next morning en route
to Barcelona was just fine, thanks.

Regards

Jonathan

Soemthing i discovered when looking on the web for something else today:

I had seen the train ferrys in Denmark for the services to Copenhagan (is
the railway section of the bridge complete yet?) when on holiday in the
early 90s.

I had often been confused when in material on the tay bridge disaster the
train was either reffered to as a Burntisland to Dundee Mail train or as an
Edinburgh to Dundee train.

What I didn't know was that as well as hes fatally flawed Tay Bridge he also
developed along with other sturdier bridges (which is what i was lookngi for
and found nothing) the Cassions used in contruction and Train Ferrys for
getting passengers from Edinburgh over the forth to Burntisland.

"Troy Steadman" wrote in message
m...
Didn't there used to be trains that instead of disgorging their
passengers at the docks actually drove (drove?) steamed on to sidings
on the decks of ships then steamed off Stena-like to continue their
journey across Europe?

Theres three routes in Europe that still use train ferries:

Puttgarden-Raedby between Germany and Denmark.
All Hamburg-Copenhagen EuroCitys use this route. The Train justs get driven
on to the deck and then driven off at the other end and shares the deck with
other cars and lorries, if you want you can get of the train and use the
facilities on the ferry or just wonder about the deck, its quite a novelty
seeing a train sat next to an HGV on a ferry deck.
See:http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/dk/...-5092/P1010192
..jpg
&
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/dk/...92/dsb5285.jpg

Villa San Giovanni-Messina between Italy and Sicilia.
All through trains from the Italian mainland to Sicilia use this route, your
shunted in and out of the ship on to the rail deck and you have to remain on
the train for this one.
See: http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/it/misc/ferry/pix.html

And finally from Trelleborg-Sassnitz between Sweden and Germany, used by the
nightly Berlin Night Express. Dont know much abut this one.

"Peter Masson" wrote in message
...

There was one night in, IIRC, 1967 or 1968 when there was heavy rain and
flooding in Kent, and each route the train took was blocked and it had to
turn back. Passengers expecting to wake up on the way in to Paris woke up
at
Gravesend.

It was in October 1968. I was in digs in Crawley and had a very dodgy
journey back on the Sunday night in question. Hever Castle was flooded IIRC.
--
Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society
75th Anniversary 2004, see http://www.omnibussoc.org/75th.htm
E-mail:
URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/