Mizter T wrote:

On 15 Feb, 11:23, wrote:
This is especially for Mizter T but I hope that it may be of benefit
to others.
You may recall my proposed journey Greenford - Camden Road via
Shepherd's Bush (London Overground), nor crossing into Z1 and the
availability of my z2-6 YPRC cap on Oyster. I was told that perhaps
breaking my journey at White City may force the cap. Well here is
what happened.
I had to go to Stratford to meet some friends first.

Greenford - White City (Central Line ) = £1.10

Shepherd's Bush - Stratford ( London Overground, changing at Willesden
Junction) = £2.20

Stratford - Camden Road ( London Overground) = £1.10

TOTAL = £4.40

[Z2-6 CAP = £3.00]

I had thought that going from ShepB to Stratford via LO would have
resulted in my fare being capped, obviously this did not happen. I was
also charged for the Stratford - Camden Road journey. I queried this
with Ticket Staff and they said that to get from Shepherd's Bush to
Stratford I must have gone through Z1 and that I was going to reach my
cap for the day when my Oyster usage reached £5.80 ( 1-6 cap). When I
said I used LO via Willesden Junction and did not travel through Z1
they were flummoxed and said I should ring Customer Service. So can
we conclude that Shepherds Bush (LO /WLL/NLL) - Stratford is a via
Zone 1 journey / fare even though the obvious route of choice is not
via the central line ( ie via z1) but via WLL/NLL ? Unfair ?
Incorrect ?


Yes, you can conclude that a Shepherd's Bush (LO/ WLL) to Stratford
journey is assumed to be via zone 1. I can tell you this because
that's what the TfL Fare finder tells me - specifically that the fare
from "Shepherd's Bush [London Overground]" to "Stratford" is either
£2.70 peak or £2.20 off-peak, and those are the zone 1-3 fares.

TfL Fare finder:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...09/farefinder/

(snip)

If you look at the TfL fare finder you'll see that "Shepherd's Bush
[London Overground]" to "Camden Road" is charged at £1.10 (both peak
and off-peak) - therefore if you had broken your journey at White City
and travelled on from Shepherd's Bush (LO/WLL) only as far as Camden
Road then I'm confident you'd be in line for the zone 2-6 cap of £4.60
(or £3.00 with a Railcard). Going to Stratford unfortunately pushes it
over the edge to a via z1 fare.

(snip)

I'm not quite up to speed today! There's nothing wrong in what I said
in the above post (apart perhaps from it being too verbose! - you'll
see I've snipped some of what I quoted), however I failed to think of
something really obvious!

If you wanted to break a Shepherd's Bush to Stratford journey to
ensure you only paid zone 2&3 fares and thus qualified for the z2-6
cap, at Willesden Jn station where you have to change from the WLL to
the NLL train you could simply exit and then re-enter the station,
i.e. go out of the gates and then back in them. This would mean you
would pay for a Shepherd's Bush [LO] to Willesden Jn fare (zone 2),
and then a separate Willesden Jn to Stratford fare (zone 2&3).

On the way from Shepherd's Bush to Stratford one has a 17 minute wait
for the next eastbound NLL train, so that's plenty of time for such
things. Going the other way, from Stratford to Shepherd's Bush, one
might have a tighter 6 minutes to do this in (or otherwise 21 minutes
- the NLL is every 15 mins, the WLL is half-hourly, so it depends
which NLL train you catch).

However in my book that's more than enough time as long as you don't
dilly dally when you get there (though this is all assuming that the
NLL and WLL is running to time, perhaps a bad assumption to make!).
Anyway, in the case of your example, you might only be coming back
west from Camden Road, unless you go with your friends to Stratford
and then come back on yourself. Note - all the times given are for
middle of the day journeys, things are different late evening (when
the NLL is ever 20 mins) and Sundays (when the NLL is half-hourly), so
don't rely on me and check them first [1].

If you don't want people to think you're mad by exiting and then
immediately re-entering the station, then Willesden Jn has two
entrances with two separate gatelines - if you've enough time (and 6
minutes is not enough unless you run!) you could leave from one exit
and re-enter the station through its other entrance.

I realise this journey is now sounding like a real palaver - exit the
Central line at White City, walk to Shepherd's Bush, exit and then re-
enter Willesden Jn station! Which led me on to another thought...

Forget about the WLL altogether! At White City you're not actually
that far from Willesden Junction, and there is a frequent bus route,
the 220, that goes from Wood Lane (the road directly outside White
City station) up to Willesden Jn - it runs every 6-10 mins and is
scheduled to take 11 minutes to get to the eastern side way entrance
to Willesden Jn station (off Harlesden High Street), or otherwise 14
minutes to get to the western (main) entrance.

You can see the 220 on this map of bus routes from White City - it
goes from bus stop WE opposite the station entrance:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaro...field-2447.pdf

This is the bus route map around Willesden Jn - the eastern side
entrance to the station is I think right next to bus stop H, the one
that's named "Harrow Road/ Scrubs Lane":
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaro...ation-2301.pdf

Alternatively stay on the bus to arrive at the main station entrance
on Station Approach.

By the by the side entrance is actually quite useful, as the buses can
get a but stuck in traffic going through Harlesden to get to the main
station entrance, though the side way in is possibly somewhere you
might want to avoid at night. This bird's eye view shows where it is
in relation to Harlesden High Street (which the map incorrectly labels
as Harrow Road) - the bus stop is just on the bridge, the entrance is
down those stairs off the bridge and then pan the map to the west/
left and you'll come to the station:
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?cp...&style=b&lvl=2

I think there could well be something in this route - the WLL service
is after all only half-hourly (this is set to improve in the future,
but not quite yet) so you might end up waiting around for a long time
at Shepherd's Bush, only to have to wait around for longer at
Willesden Jn. The 220 meanwhile is a decent and direct bus route -
there's also the 228 that links White City with Willesden Jn though it
does look as if it goes round the houses a bit. I'd say this route
would likely provide a better chance of catching an eastbound NLL
train from Willesden Jn earlier than if one was to go via Shepherd's
Bush, resulting in a quicker end-to-end journey. And of course it
would qualify for the z2-6 cap too!


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[1] If you haven't come across it before this is a good site for train
times - all the information comes directly from the National Rail
journey planner but is presented in a more basic less flashy way:
http://traintimes.org.uk/