On Apr 23, 6:08*pm, "David A Stocks" wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote:

A few follow on thoughts about Shoreditch High Street (SHS) being put
in zone 1. One thing I'd failed to include in my considerations above
is the rail-only season ticket. Therefore, were SHS to have been in
zone 2, then the calculation for price-conscious City commuters may
have been between a rail-only season from say Sydenham to London
Terminals (i.e. London Bridge/ Cannon Street) and either a season
Travelcard (covering whatever zones were needed but excluding
expensive z1) or Oyster PAYG single fares, whichever is the cheaper.

From further out it makes a huge difference. I have been commuting from
Hove/Brighton to Victoria for a number of years, and am contemplating the
possibility of travelling to Hanger Lane every day instead. The current
annual season ticket prices are roughly:

Hove to London Terminals £3,500 (current ticket)
Hove to Zones 1-6 * * * *£4,000
Hove to Zones 2-6 * * * *£3,000 (using Overground from CLJ to SPB)

The relative savings afforded by avoiding zone 1 for journeys within
London are perhaps comparable - again these are prices for annual
seasons:

Purley* to London Terminals £1,448
Zones 1-6 Travelcard £1,904
Zones 2-6 Travelcard £1,296

(*Purley price applies to any zone 6 Southern station to 'London
Terminals')

It certainly pays to avoid zone 1, as it does with 'London
Terminals'.

(Even just looking at off-peak Day Travelcards, the z2-6 at £5.10 is
almost a third less than the z1-6 at £7.50.)


The other thought I've just had is whether or not SHS would be
classified as a 'London Terminal' - which is particularly relevant for
journeys from south London, as it could mean that commuters could
choose between heading to London Bridge/Cannon Street or SHS to get to
the City.

On the basis of the above figures I would say this would make a lot of
sense - it would work a bit like City Thameslink does for journeys from the
south.

Hmm, I don't think that necessarily follows. It would undoubtedly be
very useful, no doubt. However as the letters that London Travelwatch
have published demonstrate, there was clear concern about revenue
being abstracted from the TOCs and heading to TfL/LO (via the ELLX) -
hence why SHS is going to be a zone 1 station rather than a zone 2
station - the fear of the TOCs being that pax would transfer to the
ELLX to benefit from the cheaper fares. DfT agreed with this concern,
and therefore stipulated that SHS would be in zone 1 (as part of the
funding deal for ELLX phase 2b).

*If* SHS was to be a 'London Terminal' for journeys from points south,
then TfL/LO would get a cut of the revenue from tickets issued to
'London Terminals' as per the ATOC/RSP revenue allocation scheme
(ORCATS). The TOCs and the DfT might well also regard this as revenue
abstraction too - it might not be quite such a clear cut case, as ELLX
would be adding to the total of trains heading from points south to
'London Terminals' - but I think it might well be regarded as just as
unwelcome.

The other possible point against it is that of concern about
overcrowded trains at SHS, which would perhaps be more likely if
'London Terminals' tickets were valid to and from it as well - in
other words if holders of 'London Terminals' season tickets were a
fickle bunch and switched their allegiance between SHS and London
Bridge/Cannon Street at the drop of a top-hat - or indeed a drop of
rain - then this could lead to surges and dips in the pattern of usage
at SHS and London Bridge/Cannon Street which could make things
difficult for planners, and could lead to ELLX trains carrying cross-
town traffic being overwhelmed at SHS. Then again, maybe not... I'm
just thinking aloud!


I think I used the ELL once, when I was working near Finsbury Square and my
train from the coast shuddered to a halt at New Cross without much prospect
of going further any time soon. I got to work .... eventually.

I believe the ELL it was used by a significant-ish number of people
for commuting to the City via the now defunct Shoreditch station off
Brick Lane - I know someone who used to do just that!

Canada Water and the interchange with the Jubilee line certainly
increased the relevance of the ELL - there was a good deal of
interchanging that went on there, and the ELL was a kind of feeder
line from points south (and once ELLX opens this will be a very busy
interchange point).

I made occasional use of the ELL - it was a bit of a strange
Underground line, but it certainly had its uses. The ELLX project will
however help the line to fulfil lots more of its potential - even if
SHS being in zone 1 does knock it back a bit.