On Apr 23, 12:44*pm, wrote:
OK, haven't been on UTL for years but this is the kind of discussion
that you like, and I cannot really work out what to do!!

The facts:

(1) I live in Zone 2 and work in Zone 1.
(2) I have a Zones 1 and 2 annual travelcard, expiring 30 December
2009, which cost me £968 *(Work loaned me the money for it, and I am
paying them back monthly out of my salary).
(3) From 8 May until 27 July I am going to be living 1 minute from
Bowes Park station, British Rail, Zone 3.
(4) There is a tube station about 5 minutes away (Bounds Green, Zone
3). However, since I work in Moorgate, if I happen to time it right, I
will be more likely to take the train from Bowes Park which goes
direct to Moorgate, and will only take tube when I miss the train or
there is a problem on the line. Coming back is a different matter, as
if I am out in Central London after work, I'll almost certainly get
the tube to Bounds Green.

Annoyingly, Bowes Park is one of "those" stations that don't have
barriers, and I cannot simply put £20 pre-pay on top of my Yearly
season ticket on the Oystercard, for those moments when I go out of
Zone.

Even if a station has barriers, it does not entail that Oyster PAYG is
accepted there. At present, Oyster PAYG is not accepted north of
Finsbury Park on the Great Northern lines.

See this page, and specifically the PDF map it links to which shows
where Oyster PAYG is valid on National Rail:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/5823.aspx

Maybe, just maybe, Oyster PAYG will be accepted across National Rail
in London by the end of the year, possibly even earlier - I recall
September being mentioned. Of course that doesn't help you one bit!


What do I do?

Option 1:
Cancel my Annual ticket, get two monthly and two weekly season tickets
for zones 123, then start a new Annual ticket on 28 July. Not what I
want to do as that annual ticket will then cost £1032 AND furthermore
work don't permit more than one season ticket loan per year, meaning
that I'd have to self-finance this one. It would be too much hassle.
Furthermore, for those 2 and a half months I'd have to give up my Gold
Annual card, which has given me tasty savings on some rail journeys
for both me and for my travelling companions around the South Coast.
And with sunny weather and Brighton beckoning, those journeys seem
more likely than ever.

No sunny Southend for you then?!


Option 2:
Buy an extension every day. Major hassle, especially as I don't always
know whether I'm going to go by tube or train, especially with the
evening service from Moorgate to Bowes Park being so infrequent (just
two an hour). On the one day I tried it (I was travelling Moorgate-
Bowes Park-Moorgate last week to view the place), I bought an off-peak
journey extension return for £1.80 from Moorgate, then when I got back
there were problems on the line and I walked to Bounds Green and I
guess money will have come out of my top-up on my Oystercard because I
didn't even bother arguing with the ticket people in Bounds Green to
ask them whether they'd allow me to use the return portion of the rail
ticket on the tube, because of the delays on the train, because I
imagine that the delays would have to be much more severe for TfL to
give the go-ahead for that, and there was no announcement (it was only
a delay of 15 minutes, PLUS the fact that it was 20 minutes for the
next train, so I preferred to walk to Bounds Green instead rather than
hang around for 35 minutes for a train... and in any case, I wanted to
end up that night in central London anyway, so made sense. I guess I
*could* have asked them, but just couldn't be bothered.

I very much doubt that LU would have been accepting National Rail
tickets for what would in all likelihood have been viewed as a
'routine delay' (or some such!) on the mainline railways.


Option 3:
Buy a separate Zones 3-4 monthly season ticket for two months, and two
weekly ones, at a combined cost of £160.80. Firstly, I never go into
zone 4, I don't even know what stations are out there any more. And
£160.80 is a terrible waste of money. That, plus the £969 I've already
paid for Z12 for the whole year, comes to £1128.80. I may as well have
got a Z123 yearly back in December last year!! *Why can TfL not issue
a Zone 3 monthly season ticket only, at a reduced price?

Single zone seasons were withdrawn three or four years back. There
would have been logical reasons for this... but I can't be bothered to
second-guess them now!


It is particularly expensive when you consider that, by this year's
prices, the difference between a Z12 monthly and a Z123 monthly is
just £16.90.

If I were to go down Option 3, I'd have the option of either buying
Z34 on a separate Oyster card, or having it as a separate option on my
same card (or so I'm led to believe). Both are frought with problems.
Option 3a:
Two separate Oyster cards? Which would also mean that I'd end up with
daily "unfinished" journeys originating in Zone 3, and daily
"unfinished" journeys originating in Zone 1, and I can just see the
barriers eventually going mental and not letting me though and I have
to clear it every time to the inspectors and explain this complicated
arrangement.
Furthermore, I'd need to remember which blue plastic card is the one I
use in the morning, and which one is one I use in the evening. And I
know that, after a few drinks especially, I'll end up touching out at
Bounds Green with my Z12 travelcard, and lose an unnecessary pound or
so from my emergency prepay top-up, whilst having a valid Z34
travelcard in the other pocket. And then trying to claim it back, oh
god....

Two separate cards would be unnecessary.

However, as things are currently set up with Oyster one could use two
separate cards - journeys would be marked as 'unresolved', but this
wouldn't entail a financial penalty so long as you used the correct
card at each end. Indeed, you can legitimately use one Travelcard
loaded on an Oyster along with another Travelcard on paper. If however
you did touch the wrong card on a reader at one end of the journey you
wouldn't really have any recourse to getting a refund - it would after
all be your own fault! Plus they'd suspect you were trying to fiddle
them out of money too!


Option 3b:
Have them both on the same card? Yes, I believe they can do this,
HOWEVER when you touch in at Moorgate and then touch out at Bounds
Green, will it really know that you are using Z12 for touching in and
Z34 for touching out, or will it use Z12 for touching in and my
emergency prepay topup for touching out? I wouldn't like to put it to
the test. I don't think the system is that clever.

It is that clever - I have done just this, I had a zone 1&2 monthly on
my Oyster card and I added a zone 3&4 weekly to it and everything
worked fine.

I admit that I am not entirely convinced about whether TOC RPIs would
comprehend it, and I didn't test it to destruction at National Rail
gatelines either.

Nevertheless it is totally legit - see this TfL FAQ answer:
https://custserv.tfl.gov.uk/icss_csi...entityNum=2210

---quote---
Q: Can I have more than one Travelcard and money to pay as I go on my
Oyster card at the same time?

A: Yes. You may have up to three Travelcards and/or Bus Passes and
money to pay as you go on your Oyster card at the same time.
---/quote---


Option 4. Is there one? Is it possible, for example, to pay £16.90
every month (which is the difference between a Z12 and Z123 monthly)
and somehow make the system accept my Oystercard, for 1 month at a
time, as working in Zone 3, both at tube stations and at non-barriered
rail stations?

If there is this magic Option 4, for which I have not had much luck in
finding information about on the various official websites, then that
would be wonderful. If not, then any advice would be very much
appreciated.

Thanks

Both Mr Thant and Mr Salter are the magicians in this case!


Tristán (formerly, very much a UTL regular!)

I've come across a good number of your posts when searching the
archives - I don't know if you'll think that's good or scary!