"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

On Jan 21, 11:40 pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:

"Paul Scott" wrote

The South London RUS also covers the subject in detail, needless to say.
AFAICS the idea that the ELL will cause a major reduction in services
into
LB seems something of an exaggeration.

Some passengers who currently use London Bridge will find it advantageous
to
use the ELL - particularly those who walk to work from London Bridge, but
who may have a shorter walk from Shoreditch High Street, and those who
change to the Jubilee Line at London Bridge who may choose to change at
Canada Water instead.

Indeed - re the second point, those heading east to Canary Wharf and
beyond will of course find Canada Water more convenient for changing
to the Jubilee - yes when the old ELL was open this was an option
then, but the benefit of one less change inevitably makes this more
attractive - but it'll also be very interesting to see how many people
do it for journeys to points west (e.g. the West End), thus avoiding
the somewhat laborious and busy interchange at London Bridge.

w.r.t. the first point about Shoreditch High Street, as I suggested
elsewhere on this thread if SHS had been in zone 2 as was originally
planned then price wise it may well have been advantageous for people
to choose it over London Bridge (i.e. Travelcard would not need z2
validity), however now that it's going to be in zone 1 then it may
well remain advantageous for them to stick with a rail-only season to
London Terminals (i.e. London Bridge).

An example - Crystal Palace to somewhere in the City - all prices are
monthlies...

z2&3 Travelcard - £73.00
z1-3 Travelcard - £116
Crystal Palace to London Terminals - £74.90

If SHS had been in z2, then if it was a more convenient location then
the clear choice for the commuter would have been the z2&3 Travelcard
(which would also have afforded them bus travel anywhere in London
too).

Now that SHS is in zone 1, they'd need to decide whether it was
worthwhile or not to splash out on a z1 Travelcard - or indeed a z1
PAYG fare - read on...

***BIG qualifier to the above!***
Importantly to all these calculations we don't yet know two things...

(1) What Oyster PAYG fare will be charged for said journey - though
it's likely that for a straightforward commute, PAYG will still be
cheaper than a season Travelcard (though poss. not an annual), but one
has to factor in any leisure travel too.

(2) Whether there might be some kind of rail-only season available for
travel to SHS. My suspicion is no there won't be.



And may I ask, for those who walked from LB, what would be the pricing and
access issues if they were to use Whitechapel instead?

DW downunder

On Jan 22, 4:33*am, "DW downunder" noname wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote in message

[big snip]

w.r.t. the first point about Shoreditch High Street, as I suggested
elsewhere on this thread if SHS had been in zone 2 as was originally
planned then price wise it may well have been advantageous for people
to choose it over London Bridge (i.e. Travelcard would not need z2
validity), however now that it's going to be in zone 1 then it may
well remain advantageous for them to stick with a rail-only season to
London Terminals (i.e. London Bridge).

An example - Crystal Palace to somewhere in the City - all prices are
monthlies...

z2&3 Travelcard - £73.00
z1-3 Travelcard - £116
Crystal Palace to London Terminals - £74.90

If SHS had been in z2, then if it was a more convenient location then
the clear choice for the commuter would have been the z2&3 Travelcard
(which would also have afforded them bus travel anywhere in London
too).

Now that SHS is in zone 1, they'd need to decide whether it was
worthwhile or not to splash out on a z1 Travelcard - or indeed a z1
PAYG fare - read on...

***BIG qualifier to the above!***
Importantly to all these calculations we don't yet know two things...

(1) What Oyster PAYG fare will be charged for said journey - though
it's likely that for a straightforward commute, PAYG will still be
cheaper than a season Travelcard (though poss. not an annual), but one
has to factor in any leisure travel too.

(2) Whether there might be some kind of rail-only season available for
travel to SHS. My suspicion is no there won't be.

--------------------

And may I ask, for those who walked from LB, what would be the pricing and
access issues if they were to use Whitechapel instead?

Whitechapel is and will remain in zone 2, but it's that bit further
away from the City - it will certainly be an option for anyone who
works on that edge of the City (say around Aldgate) and is willing to
walk a bit, but the lay of the land makes it that bit less attractive
to do so - SHS is closer to where it's going on (in City office terms
- Whitechapel market seems to be where it's at for dodgy DVD street
sales...).

So, from points south Whitechapel + walk is a possible option for
avoiding zone 1. The old Shoreditch ELL station (in zone 2) was also
used by a cadre of City commuters - indeed it only had a peak hours
service (though the service window was quite wide), but as we now know
the quasi-replacement SHS station will be in zone 1.

Coming from points north, then one could get off at Hoxton station
(zone 1/2 border, thus only paying for a z2 fare) and walk down into
the City, but again it's a bit of a distance, prob. more so for many
City destinations than it is from Whitechapel, and given that the
furthest away pax will have come from without a change is Highbury &
Islington I'm not sure that many would be willing to do this.

That said, for anyone working in the vicinity of the Old Street
roundabout, then a walk over from Hoxton is rather more doable. So
there's a possibility of the ELL taking a few pax away from FCC's
Great Northern Electrics / Northern City line service into Moorgate
via Old Street, dependent on where they're heading of course (and also
where they're starting from - if it's Highbury & Islington that's one
thing, but if people are coming from further out say on the Great
Northern Electrics service then faffing about changing at H&I becomes
less attractive, esp. if the walk is the same or longer at the other
end!).

That said, for anyone working in the vicinity of the Old Street
roundabout, then a walk over from Hoxton is rather more doable. So
there's a possibility of the ELL taking a few pax away from FCC's Great
Northern Electrics / Northern City line service into Moorgate via Old
Street, dependent on where they're heading of course (and also where
they're starting from - if it's Highbury & Islington that's one thing,
but if people are coming from further out say on the Great Northern
Electrics service then faffing about changing at H&I becomes less
attractive, esp. if the walk is the same or longer at the other end!).

If you live anywhere on the H&I-Dalston-Hoxton route, and you work in
Old St, you're going to get the bus, without any question, surely? It's
always going to be quicker/cheaper?

(and in fact, if it's not raining, surely 90% of people would walk from
any of those places, making a much larger saving!)

On Jan 22, 6:04*pm, Martin Petrov
wrote:

That said, for anyone working in the vicinity of the Old Street
roundabout, then a walk over from Hoxton is rather more doable. So
there's a possibility of the ELL taking a few pax away from FCC's Great
Northern Electrics / Northern City line service into Moorgate via Old
Street, dependent on where they're heading of course (and also where
they're starting from - if it's Highbury & Islington that's one thing,
but if people are coming from further out say on the Great Northern
Electrics service then faffing about changing at H&I becomes less
attractive, esp. if the walk is the same or longer at the other end!).

If you live anywhere on the H&I-Dalston-Hoxton route, and you work in
Old St, you're going to get the bus, without any question, surely? It's
always going to be quicker/cheaper?

(and in fact, if it's not raining, surely 90% of people would walk from
any of those places, making a much larger saving!)

Yes, quite possibly - to the bus bit at least. Don't think you'd find
90% of people walking though (unfortunately).

walkit.com has Highbury Corner (i.e. H&I) to Old Street roundabout as
being 1.7 miles, so a 25 mins fast pace/ 34 mins medium pace, whilst
Dalston Junction (well, Dalston Kingsland station actually) to Old
Street is 1.8 miles, so basically the same timings. (I think I'm at
their fast pace, except on a v hot day or perhaps when, er, rather
merry!)

From Highbury Corner/ H&I there's the 271 bus to Old Street the direct
way via Canonbury Road, or the more indirect (but poss almost as fast)
43 bus via the Angel then City Road. The Great Northern/ Northern City
line service also doesn't have a Tube-like frequency, and isn't that
fast - if it was like the Victoria line then it'd get more custom for
short hops like this.

There are four frequent bus routes down the Kingsland Road, though I
think it can perhaps be a bit slow going at peak times as both the
buses and the road are busy (though yes a lot of it does have a bus
lane(s)).

Perhaps if one was heading from Dalston more towards the Liverpool
Street side of the City instead of around Old Street then jumping on a
frequent train from Dalston Junction and being able to shoot down past
it all high up on a viaduct to SHS station might well have its
attractions - but of course it would also have it's zone 1 expense,
which is where we came in!

And then there's a bike as well, of course!

In article
,
Mizter T wrote:

Perhaps if one was heading from Dalston more towards the Liverpool
Street side of the City instead of around Old Street then jumping on a
frequent train from Dalston Junction and being able to shoot down past
it all high up on a viaduct to SHS station might well have its
attractions - but of course it would also have it's zone 1 expense,
which is where we came in!

We live on the 76 route, which goes through Dalston and gets you to Old
Street and Moorgate (and a short cut through to Liverpool Street) and
Bank. It's usually pretty fast and a short walk away are the 141 and 21,
likewise, and since the 21 started coming up this way then the bus
overcrowding has got better.

The Kingsland Road buses are also a short walk away - Kingsland Road is
surprisingly traffic free south of Dalston until you get to the
Shoreditch system.

E.

On Jan 22, 7:23*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 05:46:10 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

On Jan 22, 4:33*am, "DW downunder" noname wrote:
And may I ask, for those who walked from LB, what would be the pricing and
access issues if they were to use Whitechapel instead?

Whitechapel is and will remain in zone 2, but it's that bit further
away from the City - it will certainly be an option for anyone who
works on that edge of the City (say around Aldgate) and is willing to
walk a bit, but the lay of the land makes it that bit less attractive
to do so - SHS is closer to where it's going on (in City office terms
- Whitechapel market seems to be where it's at for dodgy DVD street
sales...).

So, from points south Whitechapel + walk is a possible option for
avoiding zone 1. The old Shoreditch ELL station (in zone 2) was also
used by a cadre of City commuters - indeed it only had a peak hours
service (though the service window was quite wide), but as we now know
the quasi-replacement SHS station will be in zone 1.

Or jump on a bus into the city - 25 and 205 from Whitechapel or the 100
from Shadwell. *A Z23 Travelcard is valid on all TfL buses across London
as there are no zones. Clearly it depends on how time sensitive people
are but it is possible to avoid the Zone 1 premium if you're prepared to
change.

Indeed - I omitted to mention the bus!

(Though doesn't the Zone 1 premium help to fund your meal ticket? )