On Jan 31, 9:50*pm, Jeremy Double wrote:
Theo Markettos wrote:
Cost of a basic smartcard is somewhere in the region of $1-$5. *That's not
going to be cost effective unless it becomes feasible to make them out of
organic or polycrystalline semiconductors (cheap, but the density and
performance is nowhere near yet). *Then they could be printed on paper
again, or plastic.

In Portugal (Porto and Lisbon), they use stiff paper smartcards for
ticketing, and the cost of the card is a few tens of Euro cents in
addition to the cost of the travel (I can't remember the exact cost, but
it was considerably less than $1).

The cards are two layers of stiff paper or thin card and the aerial is
made of foil in between the two layers. There is a small (about 1 mm
square) chip that you can see as a small lump in the card. (A few years
ago I disassembled a Lisbon one to see how it was constructed).

--
Jeremy Double {real address, include nospam}
Rail and transport photos athttp://www.flickr.com/photos/jmdouble/collections/72157603834894248/

The contrast here is between a stiff plastic card with high quality
printing and a protective overlay (life 10 years) and the laminated
paper and foil construction, simpler printing, less physically secure
and life about a year (longer life, more cost, if protective overlays
are used). But also the low cost product tends to use a cheaper chip
with lower security. There is a new generation of low cost chips with
AES encryption (current mainstream USA designed symmetric crypto), but
UK/EU infrastructure in general doesn't support it yet - building
access terminals will be the first to do that, maybe by the end of
this year for the first commercial system offerings.

ticketyboo wrote:
On Jan 31, 9:50 pm, Jeremy Double wrote:
Theo Markettos wrote:
Cost of a basic smartcard is somewhere in the region of $1-$5. That's not
going to be cost effective unless it becomes feasible to make them out of
organic or polycrystalline semiconductors (cheap, but the density and
performance is nowhere near yet). Then they could be printed on paper
again, or plastic.
In Portugal (Porto and Lisbon), they use stiff paper smartcards for
ticketing, and the cost of the card is a few tens of Euro cents in
addition to the cost of the travel (I can't remember the exact cost, but
it was considerably less than $1).

The cards are two layers of stiff paper or thin card and the aerial is
made of foil in between the two layers. There is a small (about 1 mm
square) chip that you can see as a small lump in the card. (A few years
ago I disassembled a Lisbon one to see how it was constructed).

--
Jeremy Double {real address, include nospam}
Rail and transport photos athttp://www.flickr.com/photos/jmdouble/collections/72157603834894248/

The contrast here is between a stiff plastic card with high quality
printing and a protective overlay (life 10 years) and the laminated
paper and foil construction, simpler printing, less physically secure
and life about a year (longer life, more cost, if protective overlays
are used).

But if you want to use smartcards for all tickets (as appeared to be the
case when I was in Porto in the Autumn), the low cost option is more
acceptable to visitors...

I wouldn't worry about having to pay 50 cents for a paper smartcard on
which to load tickets for a trip of a day or two, but once the cost gets
much above one Euro, and the smartcard is plastic and suitable for 10
years continuous use, I start to think I'm being ripped off.
--
Jeremy Double {real address, include nospam}
Rail and transport photos at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmdoubl...7603834894248/

On Feb 1, 9:14*am, Jeremy Double wrote:

I wouldn't worry about having to pay 50 cents for a paper smartcard on
which to load tickets for a trip of a day or two, but once the cost gets
much above one Euro, and the smartcard is plastic and suitable for 10
years continuous use, I start to think I'm being ripped off.

Or you re-jig your ticket machines such that they can refund
deposits? I'm not convinced there is an issue then.

Neil

On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 03:11:06 -0800, Neil Williams wrote:


Or you re-jig your ticket machines such that they can refund deposits?
I'm not convinced there is an issue then.

They did that in Singapore - stations likely to be frequented by
tourists have machines that take the cards back and issue refunds on the
card deposit.