I heard tonight at a meeting in Acton between local residents and
Network Rail/Tfl/LOROL representatives that Ian Brown (MD, London Rail,
TfL) had announced in his report to the Mayor at the TfL Board meeting
last week that the North London Line resignalling was to be postponed
until after the Olympics. This was reported by someone in the audience
tonight, and was clearly a complete bombshell to the people on the
platform. They had previously claimed that the resignalling was the
main reason for the continuing lack of Sunday services on the NLL.

I've now found the relevant part of the webcast of the TfL Board meeting
and have transcribed it (see below).

I don't think Ian Brown has been "very clear", despite what he claimed.
He makes it sound as if TfL are doing the "physical stuff", and then
Network Rail will do the new signalling later. But surely all the
4-tracking work, new crossovers etc. will be done by Network Rail or
their contractors? What about the signalling for the new or changed
track? Will that be cobbled together à la Jubilee Line and then
replaced post 2012 or what?

Network Rail's agreement to this change of plan would be crucial, yet he
makes no mention of that. Extraordinary.

And can the 8tph timetable for 2012 be supported reliably by the
existing signalling ?

Can anyone throw any light on this "decision"?

Transcript of Ian Brown's statement:
"Bit of a dilemma on the North London Line infrastructure. I just want
to be very clear on what we've done. This is a Network Rail 4-tracking
scheme for our Overground, also for freight trains and for all the other
stuff that runs on that line. Big scheme, £300+ million, and we've got
all sorts of problems with signalling design with Network Rail. It's a
general problem with Network Rail, as people know round the table, and
the dilemma for me is to have that service running, and to make sure
they guarantee to have the service well in time for the Olympics, of 8
trains an hour. What we're going ahead with [is] the blockade in
February - 3 months' blockade from Gospel Oak to Stratford. We're going
to do all the physical stuff, but we're going to keep the old signalling
going, so we've actually done the work, then Network Rail have got to
come back and do the signalling later. So we have actually secured our
frequency, we've secured the Olympic frequency, we've not secured the
corporate railway, and there's also some issues about freight trains, so
the scheme's got to be done, but we've secured our bit by that decision,
which was quite a difficult one."

Source: TfL Board meeting, 3 Feb 2010
Webcast at http://www.london.gov.uk/webcast/feb...ard_030210.asx
Excerpt above runs from 01:15:15 to 01:16:15

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On 9 Feb, 00:05, "Richard J." wrote:
I heard tonight at a meeting in Acton between local residents and
Network Rail/Tfl/LOROL representatives that Ian Brown (MD, London Rail,
TfL) had announced in his report to the Mayor at the TfL Board meeting
last week that the North London Line resignalling was to be postponed
until after the Olympics. *This was reported by someone in the audience
tonight, and was clearly a complete bombshell to the people on the
platform. *They had previously claimed that the resignalling was the
main reason for the continuing lack of Sunday services on the NLL.

I fear that, even before the start of the NLL 3 month blockade from
20th February, a future blockade is already being planned...

Dominic

On 9 Feb, 00:05, "Richard J." wrote:


I don't think Ian Brown has been "very clear", despite what he claimed.
* He makes it sound as if TfL are doing the "physical stuff", and then
Network Rail will do the new signalling later. *But surely all the
4-tracking work, new crossovers etc. will be done by Network Rail or
their contractors? *What about the signalling for the new or changed
track? *Will that be cobbled together à la Jubilee Line and then
replaced post 2012 or what?

Network Rail's agreement to this change of plan would be crucial, yet he
makes no mention of that. *Extraordinary.

And can the 8tph timetable for 2012 be supported reliably by the
existing signalling ?

Can anyone throw any light on this "decision"?


The original plan was for the resignalling of the whole line to happen
after the Olympics in 2013, at the same time as the four tracking /
freight loops were extended through Camden Road station. At some
point, NR decided to bring the resignalling forward to coincide with
the ELL works, but there would still have been further work to have
been undertaken later. What is unclear to me is whether the postponing
of the resignalling will lead to the loss of the freight loops to the
east of Camden Road as well. It is these, together with extra signals
to shorten the headway, that gave the necessary capacity increase to
allow the 8 tph.

On 09.02.10 0:05, Richard J. wrote:
I heard tonight at a meeting in Acton between local residents and
Network Rail/Tfl/LOROL representatives that Ian Brown (MD, London Rail,
TfL) had announced in his report to the Mayor at the TfL Board meeting
last week that the North London Line resignalling was to be postponed
until after the Olympics. This was reported by someone in the audience
tonight, and was clearly a complete bombshell to the people on the
platform. They had previously claimed that the resignalling was the main
reason for the continuing lack of Sunday services on the NLL.

I've now found the relevant part of the webcast of the TfL Board meeting
and have transcribed it (see below).

I don't think Ian Brown has been "very clear", despite what he claimed.
He makes it sound as if TfL are doing the "physical stuff", and then
Network Rail will do the new signalling later. But surely all the
4-tracking work, new crossovers etc. will be done by Network Rail or
their contractors? What about the signalling for the new or changed
track? Will that be cobbled together à la Jubilee Line and then replaced
post 2012 or what?

Network Rail's agreement to this change of plan would be crucial, yet he
makes no mention of that. Extraordinary.

And can the 8tph timetable for 2012 be supported reliably by the
existing signalling ?

Can anyone throw any light on this "decision"?

Transcript of Ian Brown's statement:
"Bit of a dilemma on the North London Line infrastructure. I just want
to be very clear on what we've done. This is a Network Rail 4-tracking
scheme for our Overground, also for freight trains and for all the other
stuff that runs on that line. Big scheme, £300+ million, and we've got
all sorts of problems with signalling design with Network Rail. It's a
general problem with Network Rail, as people know round the table, and
the dilemma for me is to have that service running, and to make sure
they guarantee to have the service well in time for the Olympics, of 8
trains an hour. What we're going ahead with [is] the blockade in
February - 3 months' blockade from Gospel Oak to Stratford. We're going
to do all the physical stuff, but we're going to keep the old signalling
going, so we've actually done the work, then Network Rail have got to
come back and do the signalling later. So we have actually secured our
frequency, we've secured the Olympic frequency, we've not secured the
corporate railway, and there's also some issues about freight trains, so
the scheme's got to be done, but we've secured our bit by that decision,
which was quite a difficult one."

Source: TfL Board meeting, 3 Feb 2010
Webcast at http://www.london.gov.uk/webcast/feb...ard_030210.asx
Excerpt above runs from 01:15:15 to 01:16:15


It is interesting that they are talking about resignalling the NLL, yet
the signals on the ELLX are regular national rail signals. Would that
line already have to be resignalled by 2012, considering that it would
still be relatively new?

wrote in message
...

It is interesting that they are talking about resignalling the NLL, yet
the signals on the ELLX are regular national rail signals. Would that line
already have to be resignalled by 2012, considering that it would still be
relatively new?

The stuff that you can see (ie LED signal heads) on the ELL is the same as
the stuff being installed every where else on NR, why would it be changed?
Resignalling doesn't necessarily mean a step change in technology, such as
we are seeing on the LU lines. Also, the ELL is a separate signalling area,
controlled from New Cross Gate SC. It is highly likely that the southern
pair of tracks from Dalston Jn to Highbury will be part of the ELL for
signalling purposes, with the transfer crossover being the signalled route
between the two separate 'systems'.

AIUI the NLL is only being resignalled for shorter headways, it will still
be conventional NR signalling, but will all be controlled from Upminster,
rather than a number of local signalboxes.

Thinking about it, the whole question about what's happening on the NLL may
be to do with the phased nature of the four tracking around Camden Town.
Perhaps the final transfer to Upminster will only be done when the second
phase of the work is complete, thinking back to discussions about the
reducton of the scope because of the bridge repairs needed at Camden Town
itself?

Paul S

On 10.02.10 11:30, Paul Scott wrote:
wrote in message
...

It is interesting that they are talking about resignalling the NLL, yet
the signals on the ELLX are regular national rail signals. Would that line
already have to be resignalled by 2012, considering that it would still be
relatively new?

The stuff that you can see (ie LED signal heads) on the ELL is the same as
the stuff being installed every where else on NR, why would it be changed?
Resignalling doesn't necessarily mean a step change in technology, such as
we are seeing on the LU lines. Also, the ELL is a separate signalling area,
controlled from New Cross Gate SC. It is highly likely that the southern
pair of tracks from Dalston Jn to Highbury will be part of the ELL for
signalling purposes, with the transfer crossover being the signalled route
between the two separate 'systems'.

AIUI the NLL is only being resignalled for shorter headways, it will still
be conventional NR signalling, but will all be controlled from Upminster,
rather than a number of local signalboxes.

Thinking about it, the whole question about what's happening on the NLL may
be to do with the phased nature of the four tracking around Camden Town.
Perhaps the final transfer to Upminster will only be done when the second
phase of the work is complete, thinking back to discussions about the
reducton of the scope because of the bridge repairs needed at Camden Town
itself?

Paul S


What's that about Upminster?

wrote in message
...
On 10.02.10 11:30, Paul Scott wrote:

Thinking about it, the whole question about what's happening on the NLL
may
be to do with the phased nature of the four tracking around Camden Town.
Perhaps the final transfer to Upminster will only be done when the second
phase of the work is complete, thinking back to discussions about the
reducton of the scope because of the bridge repairs needed at Camden Town
itself?

What's that about Upminster?

Upminster IECC (that's the NR signal centre there) eventually gets full
signalling control of the NLL...

Paul S

On 10 Feb, 21:24, "
wrote:
On 10.02.10 11:30, Paul Scott wrote:



*wrote in message
...

It is interesting that they are talking about resignalling the NLL, yet
the signals on the ELLX are regular national rail signals. Would that line
already have to be resignalled by 2012, considering that it would still be
relatively new?

The stuff that you can see (ie LED signal heads) on the ELL is the same as
the stuff being installed every where else on NR, why would it be changed?
Resignalling doesn't necessarily mean a step change in technology, such as
we are seeing on the LU lines. *Also, the ELL is a separate signalling area,
controlled from New Cross Gate SC. *It is highly likely that the southern
pair of tracks from Dalston Jn to Highbury will be part of the ELL for
signalling purposes, with the transfer crossover being the signalled route
between the two separate 'systems'.

AIUI the NLL is only being resignalled for shorter headways, it will still
be conventional NR signalling, but will all be controlled from Upminster,
rather than a number of local signalboxes.

Thinking about it, the whole question about what's happening on the NLL may
be to do with the phased nature of the four tracking around Camden Town..
Perhaps the final transfer to Upminster will only be done when the second
phase of the work is complete, thinking back to discussions about the
reducton of the scope because of the bridge repairs needed at Camden Town
itself?

Paul S

What's that about Upminster?

Upminster is where the new signaling will be controlled from.

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, Andy wrote:

On 10 Feb, 21:24, "
wrote:
On 10.02.10 11:30, Paul Scott wrote:

AIUI the NLL is only being resignalled for shorter headways, it will
still be conventional NR signalling, but will all be controlled from
Upminster, rather than a number of local signalboxes.

Thinking about it, the whole question about what's happening on the
NLL may be to do with the phased nature of the four tracking around
Camden Town. Perhaps the final transfer to Upminster will only be done
when the second phase of the work is complete, thinking back to
discussions about the reducton of the scope because of the bridge
repairs needed at Camden Town itself?

What's that about Upminster?

Upminster is where the new signaling will be controlled from.

On trains towards Dalston, anyway. Trains heading the other way will
obviously be controlled from Downminster.

tom

--
As Emiliano Zapata supposedly said, "Better to die on your feet than
live on your knees." And years after he died, Marlon Brando played him
in a movie. So just think, if you unionize, Marlon Brando might play
YOU in a movie. Even though he's dead. -- ChrisV82

On 11.02.10 20:11, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, Andy wrote:

On 10 Feb, 21:24, "
wrote:
On 10.02.10 11:30, Paul Scott wrote:

AIUI the NLL is only being resignalled for shorter headways, it will
still be conventional NR signalling, but will all be controlled from
Upminster, rather than a number of local signalboxes.

Thinking about it, the whole question about what's happening on the
NLL may be to do with the phased nature of the four tracking around
Camden Town. Perhaps the final transfer to Upminster will only be
done when the second phase of the work is complete, thinking back to
discussions about the reducton of the scope because of the bridge
repairs needed at Camden Town itself?

What's that about Upminster?

Upminster is where the new signaling will be controlled from.

On trains towards Dalston, anyway. Trains heading the other way will
obviously be controlled from Downminster.

tom

Cool.

BTW, anybody who owns an iPhone and has the National Rail app will find
that its latest update contains Dalston Junction, Haggerston, Hoxton and
Shoreditch High Street.

No schedule information is yet available from any of those stations,
unfortunately.