Peter Heather wrote:

I do think the current policy of only showing
the final destination is a retrograde step. Clarity and the avoidance
of clutter is important, but there are many routes where important
stops are missed off. Near me, the 466 shows the destination as
Addington Village and anyone who isn't local will not be aware that
the route serves Croydon, which is hugely more important.

But anyone reading a via point can't know if the bus is going there or
coming from it.

--
We are the Strasbourg. Referendum is futile.

On Feb 14, 2:34*pm, "Basil Jet"
wrote:

Peter Heather wrote:

I do think the current policy of only showing
the final destination is a retrograde step. Clarity and the avoidance
of clutter is important, but there are many routes where important
stops are missed off. Near me, the 466 shows the destination as
Addington Village and anyone who isn't local will not be aware that
the route serves Croydon, which is hugely more important.

But anyone reading a via point can't know if the bus is going there or
coming from it.

I have certainly come across people on-board buses who were going the
wrong way several times. No idea if 'via' points listed on the blinds
were the cause of any of these, nor indeed if there were actually any
'via' points on the blinds of the buses in question.

I can see arguments both ways. One factor to bear in mind is that the
information presented at bus stops in London is far better these days
than it ever was, so that could be seen to lessen the need for 'via'
points to be listed on the blinds.

The pro-LED argument is that 'via' points can be updated as the bus
progresses along the route, of course. Not a winner in my eyes though.

Mizter T wrote:

The pro-LED argument is that 'via' points can be updated as the bus
progresses along the route, of course. Not a winner in my eyes though.

Electronic ink is the answer.

--
We are the Strasbourg. Referendum is futile.

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:54:18 -0000, "Basil Jet"
wrote:

Electronic ink is the answer.

Not backlit by default. One of the reasons for the excellent
visibility of LED is that it's an active lit technology. Having a
separate backlight is just another point of failure.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 07:30:12 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

I can see arguments both ways. One factor to bear in mind is that the
information presented at bus stops in London is far better these days
than it ever was, so that could be seen to lessen the need for 'via'
points to be listed on the blinds.

True. But it's nice to be able to see a bus waiting there and know
it's the right one without having to read the posters.

To the thread in general - I don't go for the argument of blinds being
easier to read. I genuinely find LED clearer, especially from a
distance. And it doesn't take much maintenance to keep it going - the
number of stuck, folded or otherwise damaged blinds is far greater
than the number (elsewhere) of broken LEDs.

And LED will generally "fail safe" without getting stuck displaying
incorrect information.

As for high-resolution displays - they exist but are a bit more
expensive, hence why you don't see a lot of them. Lothian (since they
were mentioned upthread) have a bus with a white high-res LED display
on trial - saw it last time I was in Edinburgh. I don't know what
they think of it yet, though.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On 14 Feb, 17:40, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 07:30:12 -0800 (PST), Mizter T

wrote:
I can see arguments both ways. One factor to bear in mind is that the
information presented at bus stops in London is far better these days
than it ever was, so that could be seen to lessen the need for 'via'
points to be listed on the blinds.

True. *But it's nice to be able to see a bus waiting there and know
it's the right one without having to read the posters.


Trouble is that there are worrying precedents.

The punter should not be having to squint at a tiny, scrolling
display, in the time it takes to decide whether to get on, in order to
find out where the buses go in general.

They should already have had access to information about where the
buses go. The main purpose of the blind should be to identify the
right bus in a hurry at a crowded bus stop.

This can be done as long as the posters, timetables and buses all
prominently feature the route number.

The addition of calling points etc on trains led to the idiocy of
route numbers being dispensed with on the Southern Region of the
railways. I wouldn't want to see buses going the same way.


To the thread in general - I don't go for the argument of blinds being
easier to read. *I genuinely find LED clearer, especially from a
distance. *And it doesn't take much maintenance to keep it going - the
number of stuck, folded or otherwise damaged blinds is far greater
than the number (elsewhere) of broken LEDs.

And LED will generally "fail safe" without getting stuck displaying
incorrect information.

As for high-resolution displays - they exist but are a bit more
expensive, hence why you don't see a lot of them. *Lothian (since they
were mentioned upthread) have a bus with a white high-res LED display
on trial - saw it last time I was in Edinburgh. *I don't know what
they think of it yet, though.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:13:09 -0800 (PST), MIG
wrote:

The punter should not be having to squint at a tiny, scrolling
display, in the time it takes to decide whether to get on, in order to
find out where the buses go in general.

They should already have had access to information about where the
buses go. The main purpose of the blind should be to identify the
right bus in a hurry at a crowded bus stop.

Which is pretty handy if you're, say, running out of Euston looking
for a bus ASAP, and aren't familiar with the not exactly logically
arranged bus station. Why *not* provide the information? A scrolling
LED blind does so clearly and legibly.

The addition of calling points etc on trains led to the idiocy of
route numbers being dispensed with on the Southern Region of the
railways. I wouldn't want to see buses going the same way.

LED blinds are in use all over the country, and there is no sign of
numbers being dispensed with.

OeBB/Postbus/Bundesbus in Austria did dispense with them for a while,
though, which was rather stupid. They used, umm, roller blinds.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

MIG wrote

They should already have had access to information about where the
buses go. The main purpose of the blind should be to identify the
right bus in a hurry at a crowded bus stop.

This can be done as long as the posters, timetables and buses all
prominently feature the route number.

Not in fact sufficient, the direction can also be needed.

Since there are bus stops on tea cup sections where the same route
calls going in both directions.

216 at Tesco, Sunbury. K3 in Claygate.

--
Mike D

On 14 Feb, 23:31, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:
MIG wrote

They should already have had access to information about where the

buses go. *The main purpose of the blind should be to identify the
right bus in a hurry at a crowded bus stop.

This can be done as long as the posters, timetables and buses all

prominently feature the route number.

Not in fact sufficient, the direction can also be needed.

The number is not necessarily sufficient, but it's sufficiently
necessary that it should be the most prominent detail on the bus and
all information relating to the bus.

I didn't mean it should be the only detail, but there's a worrying
trend towards getting rid of clear, simple codes (like route numbers)
and replacing or burying them with complicated, tiny, scrolling
information which doesn't work half the time.

A large enough white number on black background should be visible even
without a backlight. A non-functioning LED will simply be blank. A
blind is only wrong if the driver makes a mistake. An LED is wrong if
the driver makes a mistake or if the LED isn't working.

On Feb 15, 11:42*am, MIG wrote:

A large enough white number on black background should be visible even
without a backlight. *A non-functioning LED will simply be blank. *A
blind is only wrong if the driver makes a mistake.

Or it's stuck. Or in the case of those automatic blinds on the
bendies (worst of both worlds?) when the mechanism is broken, which
seems to be a lot of the time.

*An LED is wrong if
the driver makes a mistake or if the LED isn't working.

Though in the latter case it at least will show nothing, not a wrong
destination. No information is better than wrong information.

Neil