In article
,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Feb 25, 9:20*am, Walter Briscoe
wrote:
In message of Wed, 24 Feb
All: I am afraid I failed to note the URL for reliability statistics,
which was recently given in utl. Aggregation of Circle and Hammersmith
& City may reflect operational reality, but provides a poor
measurement for customers. I recall the aggregation achieving about
90% before the service revision, where all other lines achieve 95%+.
93% would be good!


http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ing-Director-R
eport-RUP-LU-Feb-2010.pdf

Showing, FWIW, the only period shown for last year and this (9) as worse
for the Circle and Hammersmith.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Roland Perry wrote on 25 February 2010 11:04:10 ...
In message , at
02:17:12 on Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Richard J.
remarked:

All Roland has described is the standard platforming, as discussed here in
u.t.l many times previously, and EXACTLY as described in last October's TfL
leaflet...

I was under the impression that it would be possible to change
without climbing the stairs. But this is clearly not implemented
westbound.

Yes it is. There is cross-platform interchange to a District train to
Wimbledon via High Street Kensington. I realise that if you wanted to
go further round the Circle, you'd also have to alight at HSK and wait
on the same platform there.

What were the origin and destination of your journey? It is relevant
to this discussion.

I was travelling from Rurostar@StP to the Wimbledon branch. Given that
there was no District Line train waiting at Edgware Rd, but there was a
Circle train, I decided to try going via Gloucester Rd (yes, another up
and down the stairs change required).

So just because the District hadn't managed to have a train waiting for
you in the platform at Edgware Road, you volunteer for an extra two
up-and-down-stairs interchanges in order to save at best the odd couple
of minutes, but only if the first westbound at Gloucester Road is a
Wimbledon (which it's quite likely not to be).

That's your choice, but it's unfair to pretend that the advertised
interchanges at Edgware Road don't work, based on that scenario.

Given where I was starting from, I couldn't be bothered to trek all the
way to the Piccadilly Line.

No, you prefer routes with stairs, apparently. :-)

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

wrote on 25 February 2010 17:08:24 ...
In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

wrote on 25 February 2010 09:43:19
...
In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

Yes it is. There is cross-platform interchange to a District train
to Wimbledon via High Street Kensington. I realise that if you
wanted to go further round the Circle, you'd also have to alight at
HSK and wait on the same platform there.

Not very convincing if there is no District train in sight!

Nonsense! Cross-platform interchange doesn't mean there's always a
train there waiting for you!

Are there signs advertising that method of step-free interchange though?
Edgware Road seems rather information-light.

There are permanent signs on Platform 3 indicating that District trains
to Wimbledon run from there.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

In message , at
17:42:50 on Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Richard J.
remarked:

So just because the District hadn't managed to have a train waiting for
you in the platform at Edgware Road,

If there's no train in the platform, there won't be one departing in the
near future. It takes five minutes to turn one round, and it has to
cross the front of the train waiting (in platform 2) which will depart
southbound. Which it didn't do in the time I was aboard that train.

you volunteer for an extra two up-and-down-stairs interchanges in order
to save at best the odd couple of minutes, but only if the first
westbound at Gloucester Road is a Wimbledon (which it's quite likely
not to be).

The first train from Edgware Road isn't, either.

That's your choice, but it's unfair to pretend that the advertised
interchanges at Edgware Road don't work, based on that scenario.

What clearly doesn't work is a no-stairs interchange to the Circle
anticlockwise. Unless you use the unadvertised change at HSK.

Which also means I'd have to let "next" Circle Line train (the one
sitting in Platform 2) go, because the next District will be after that.
So I'm condemned to use the "Circle train after the one six feet away".

Which is going to typically add 10 minutes.

Given where I was starting from, I couldn't be bothered to trek all
the way to the Piccadilly Line.

No, you prefer routes with stairs, apparently. :-)

They aren't as far as the two interchanges with the deep level tube (at
KX and then again at maybe Earls Court or Gloucester Rd).
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote on 25 February 2010 21:45:10 ...
In message , at
17:42:50 on Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Richard J.
remarked:

So just because the District hadn't managed to have a train waiting for
you in the platform at Edgware Road,

If there's no train in the platform, there won't be one departing in the
near future. It takes five minutes to turn one round, and it has to
cross the front of the train waiting (in platform 2) which will depart
southbound. Which it didn't do in the time I was aboard that train.

you volunteer for an extra two up-and-down-stairs interchanges in order
to save at best the odd couple of minutes, but only if the first
westbound at Gloucester Road is a Wimbledon (which it's quite likely
not to be).

The first train from Edgware Road isn't, either.

Just do the arithmetic. Going via Gloucester Road adds on average 10
minutes to your journey time compared with the direct route on Wimbleware.

That's your choice, but it's unfair to pretend that the advertised
interchanges at Edgware Road don't work, based on that scenario.

What clearly doesn't work is a no-stairs interchange to the Circle
anticlockwise. Unless you use the unadvertised change at HSK.

That's a different argument. What journey are you considering now?
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

In message , at
22:40:02 on Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Richard J.
remarked:
Just do the arithmetic. Going via Gloucester Road adds on average 10
minutes to your journey time compared with the direct route on
Wimbleware.

I left Edgware Road on a train that had departed before a District had
even arrived (although looking at the timetable, the there's supposed to
be a 5 minute gap between each train).

And the time from HSK to GR is about the same as HSK to Earls Court - so
the "extra" time is only that required to change platforms at GR, wait
for the next train, and the trip to EC.

If the trains are running in the published 5-minute pattern from ER,
then I reckon that would be a draw (not a ten minute penalty). But as we
all know "a train in the hand is worth two in the timetable".

That's your choice, but it's unfair to pretend that the advertised
interchanges at Edgware Road don't work, based on that scenario.
What clearly doesn't work is a no-stairs interchange to the Circle
anticlockwise. Unless you use the unadvertised change at HSK.

That's a different argument. What journey are you considering now?

Same one - St Pancras to Wimbledon (via GR or otherwise).
--
Roland Perry

On Feb 26, 11:10*am, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at
22:40:02 on Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Richard J.
remarked:

Just do the arithmetic. *Going via Gloucester Road adds on average 10
minutes to your journey time compared with the direct route on
Wimbleware.

I left Edgware Road on a train that had departed before a District had
even arrived (although looking at the timetable, the there's supposed to
be a 5 minute gap between each train).

And the time from HSK to GR is about the same as HSK to Earls Court - so
the "extra" time is only that required to change platforms at GR, wait
for the next train, and the trip to EC.

If the trains are running in the published 5-minute pattern from ER,
then I reckon that would be a draw (not a ten minute penalty). But as we
all know "a train in the hand is worth two in the timetable".

The Wimbleware service is every 10 minutes, not every 5.

Or are you saying there's a 5 minute gap between trains to HSK, which
alternate between Wimbleware and Circle?

If I was taking that route, then unless I knew the Wimbleware service
was disrupted, I'd probably just stay put at Edgware Road until a
direct train turned up.

(Disregarding luggage considerations, Vic line to Vauxhall and then
SWT to Wimbledon is the choice route I'd think - plenty of steps at
Vauxhall for all the staircase fans out there!)

In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

wrote on 25 February 2010 17:08:24
...
In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

wrote on 25 February 2010 09:43:19 ...
In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

Yes it is. There is cross-platform interchange to a District train
to Wimbledon via High Street Kensington. I realise that if you
wanted to go further round the Circle, you'd also have to alight at
HSK and wait on the same platform there.

Not very convincing if there is no District train in sight!

Nonsense! Cross-platform interchange doesn't mean there's always a
train there waiting for you!

Are there signs advertising that method of step-free interchange
though? Edgware Road seems rather information-light.

There are permanent signs on Platform 3 indicating that District
trains to Wimbledon run from there.

And no other signage for when that breaks down, or indication for the best
way to get to stations from Paddington to High St?!

I feel a Boltar-like outburst coming on. I shall stop now before I injure
myself.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

If there's no train in the platform, there won't be one departing
in the near future. It takes five minutes to turn one round, and it
has to cross the front of the train waiting (in platform 2) which
will depart southbound. Which it didn't do in the time I was aboard
that train.

That's a stroke of genius, adding more conflicts in the vicinity of Praed
St junction!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
22:40:02 on Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Richard J.
remarked:
Just do the arithmetic. Going via Gloucester Road adds on average 10
minutes to your journey time compared with the direct route on
Wimbleware.

I left Edgware Road on a train that had departed before a District
had even arrived (although looking at the timetable, the there's
supposed to be a 5 minute gap between each train).

And the time from HSK to GR is about the same as HSK to Earls Court
- so the "extra" time is only that required to change platforms at
GR, wait for the next train, and the trip to EC.

If the trains are running in the published 5-minute pattern from
ER, then I reckon that would be a draw (not a ten minute penalty).
But as we all know "a train in the hand is worth two in the
timetable".

Priceless! I shall treasure that, Roland!

The other reason not yet mentioned for getting the first train to High St
is the possibility of picking up an Olympia there for direct access to
Earl's Court. You'd have the bridge at High St (with, IME, a good chance
of the Olympia train leaving while you're on it) but still possibly
quicker than going via Gloucester Road.

Also, won't Gloucester Road be cross-platform late evenings and Sundays?
Or have they stopped changing the District platform used then?

That's your choice, but it's unfair to pretend that the advertised
interchanges at Edgware Road don't work, based on that scenario.
What clearly doesn't work is a no-stairs interchange to the Circle
anticlockwise. Unless you use the unadvertised change at HSK.

That's a different argument. What journey are you considering now?

Same one - St Pancras to Wimbledon (via GR or otherwise).

As Mizter.T says, that might be quite a bit faster if you ticket allows
it, without luggage and other mobility considerations. Victoria & Bakerloo
to Waterloo might even be faster still. Depends or what time you allow
yourself for the interchanges and to find a train at Waterloo. That's
where the journey planner might have its limitations.

--
Colin Rosenstiel