OSI problem auto-corrected
 

On 24/02/10, I entered Moorgate at 16:30 and left Euston at 16:43.
I entered Euston Square at 16:49 and left Moorgate at 17:10.
I was charged 5.80 for Euston Square entry and 6.00 for Moorgate exit.
I had already capped travel in Z1-2 on my registered Oystercard.
On 28 February 2010 03:22:49, TfL sent me an email "... Due to an
operational issue, we calculate that you are due a refund of £11.80.
This is now ready for pick-up at Moorgate. ..."
I am a little impressed.
Weekend mornings are good times for Oyster help on 0845 330 9876.
I was unable to get an explanation for the systemic failure.
--
Walter Briscoe

OSI problem auto-corrected
 

On 28 Feb, 08:32, Walter Briscoe wrote:
On 24/02/10, I entered Moorgate at 16:30 and left Euston at 16:43.
I entered Euston Square at 16:49 and left Moorgate at 17:10.
I was charged 5.80 for Euston Square entry and 6.00 for Moorgate exit.
I had already capped travel in Z1-2 on my registered Oystercard.
On 28 February 2010 03:22:49, TfL sent me an email "... Due to an
operational issue, we calculate that you are due a refund of 11.80.
This is now ready for pick-up at Moorgate. ..."
I am a little impressed.
Weekend mornings are good times for Oyster help on 0845 330 9876.
I was unable to get an explanation for the systemic failure.

This isn't the typical OSI problem that people have talked about
though, is it?

It just looks like the system was charging completely the wrong fares
to everyone and they couldn't miss it.

So I don't infer that the inexcusable situation where people are
repeatedly getting overcharged, because the system strings separate
resolved journeys into one and then decides that the resulting journey
is too long and splits it into unresolved/unstarted journeys, is
likely to be addressed in such a helpful way.

OSI problem auto-corrected
 

In message
..com of Sun, 28 Feb 2010 01:44:00 in uk.transport.london, MIG
writes
On 28 Feb, 08:32, Walter Briscoe wrote:
On 24/02/10, I entered Moorgate at 16:30 and left Euston at 16:43.
I entered Euston Square at 16:49 and left Moorgate at 17:10.
I was charged 5.80 for Euston Square entry and 6.00 for Moorgate exit.
I had already capped travel in Z1-2 on my registered Oystercard.
On 28 February 2010 03:22:49, TfL sent me an email "... Due to an
operational issue, we calculate that you are due a refund of 11.80.
This is now ready for pick-up at Moorgate. ..."
I am a little impressed.
Weekend mornings are good times for Oyster help on 0845 330 9876.
I was unable to get an explanation for the systemic failure.

This isn't the typical OSI problem that people have talked about
though, is it?

It just looks like the system was charging completely the wrong fares
to everyone and they couldn't miss it.

So I don't infer that the inexcusable situation where people are
repeatedly getting overcharged, because the system strings separate
resolved journeys into one and then decides that the resulting journey
is too long and splits it into unresolved/unstarted journeys, is
likely to be addressed in such a helpful way.

I agree I showed a failure that has been addressed less frequently.
It is also inexcusable because there is no automatic mechanism for
charging the correct fare to an unregistered card.

It is harder to demonstrate the other sort of failure.
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/12421.aspx (obscurely)
documents those time limits. You can also get there by navigating
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/, "Tickets", "What is Oyster?", "Pay as you go"
and search for "Maximum journey times".

It is harder to construct a charging failure involving an OSI without
doing something "perverse" since the Within Zone 1 or 2 limit was upped
to 90 minutes.

I suppose I could do something like
Monument Mansion House ~5
Mansion House LU London Blackfriars NR 40 For duration of Blackfriars LU closure.
Blackfriars Elephant & Castle ~ 10
Elephant & Castle NR Elephant & Castle LU 20
Elephant & Castle London Bridge 10
London Bridge LU London Bridge NR 40 NR gateline not Pre Pay enabled.
London Bridge (NR) St Pancras International ~20
St Pancras International NR King's Cross St. Pancras Tube LU 20
Kings Cross St.Pancras Euston ~5
Euston LU Euston Square LU 20
Euston Square Paddington (H&C) Line ~10
I don't have a figure for the OSI between the Paddington LU stations.
Paddington Temple ~25

That is more than 3 hours within zone 1.
No station is visited more than once and the start & end are different.

(The OSI times come from FOIa information, I got on 14 October 2009.)
--
Walter Briscoe

OSI problem auto-corrected
 

On Feb 28, 8:32*am, Walter Briscoe
wrote:

On 24/02/10, I entered Moorgate at 16:30 and left Euston at 16:43.
I entered Euston Square at 16:49 and left Moorgate at 17:10.
I was charged 5.80 for Euston Square entry and 6.00 for Moorgate exit.
I had already capped travel in Z1-2 on my registered Oystercard.
On 28 February 2010 03:22:49, TfL sent me an email "... Due to an
operational issue, we calculate that you are due a refund of 11.80.
This is now ready for pick-up at Moorgate. ..."
I am a little impressed.
Weekend mornings are good times for Oyster help on 0845 330 9876.
I was unable to get an explanation for the systemic failure.

Erm... I'm a bit uncertain as to the 'logic behind that failure', for
want of a better way of describing it, but I dare say the root of it
is the system freaking out about a journey that starts and ends at the
same place, i.e. Moorgate, given that Euston to Euston Square is an
OSI hence the journey would have

The 'auto-correct' element is not new however - I experienced it in
April of last year, and others have also commented on it too - the
text of the email being suitably ambiguous from TfL's point-of-view
("... Due to an operational issue...").

I wouldn't automatically assume that non-registered cards would also
be excluded from this - someone who knew of which they spoke commented
on here a while back about how refunds for bus fares were doled out to
Oyster card holders whilst Shepherd's Bush Central line station was
closed (so pax used local buses to get to and from Holland Park) -
however that's an easy case as they refunds could be sent to Holland
Park tube station for pick-up.

That said it's notable that the publicity surrounding the partial
closure of the NLL suggests something similar will happen this time
around as well (with no mention of it being restricted to registered
card holders only) - i.e. there will be some kind of attempt to refund
fares when a passenger has to travel via zone 1 when previously they'd
travel via the NLL and avoid z1 - though again I suppose that
identifying a suitable station to send the refund to for pick-up
purposes might well be easier.

OSI problem auto-corrected
 

On Feb 28, 9:44 am, MIG wrote:

On 28 Feb, 08:32, Walter Briscoe wrote:

On 24/02/10, I entered Moorgate at 16:30 and left Euston at 16:43.
I entered Euston Square at 16:49 and left Moorgate at 17:10.
I was charged 5.80 for Euston Square entry and 6.00 for Moorgate exit.
I had already capped travel in Z1-2 on my registered Oystercard.
On 28 February 2010 03:22:49, TfL sent me an email "... Due to an
operational issue, we calculate that you are due a refund of 11.80.
This is now ready for pick-up at Moorgate. ..."
I am a little impressed.
Weekend mornings are good times for Oyster help on 0845 330 9876.
I was unable to get an explanation for the systemic failure.

This isn't the typical OSI problem that people have talked about
though, is it?

It just looks like the system was charging completely the wrong fares
to everyone and they couldn't miss it.

See my reply downthread - my suspicion is this is some sort of problem
with Moorgate being the starting and finishing station to the overall
journey. It's an odd one though. Do note that I'm not saying this to
excuse what's gone on, with these problems I'm just trying to seek to
understand what has actually happened. But I don't think it's a case
of the system being configured to charge the wrong fares per se.


So I don't infer that the inexcusable situation where people are
repeatedly getting overcharged, because the system strings separate
resolved journeys into one and then decides that the resulting journey
is too long and splits it into unresolved/unstarted journeys, is
likely to be addressed in such a helpful way.

I don't think the last paragraph is an accurate reflection of the
actual mechanism at play - the common issue is that separate journeys
are considered to be one continuing journey from the Oyster system
POV, and the problem occurs when that complete journey is not resolved
because it times out - in other words saying that several *resolved*
journeys are being strung together to make an unresolved/unstarted
journey is not accurate (IMO). That's not to say the passenger was
doing anything wrong as they were simply following the instructions
for touching-in and out.

I do hope that such problems can be addressed somehow - I dunno how
much flexibility there is to change things, and how much of the
underlying infrastructure w.r.t. the Oyster system is set in stone.

All I will say is that such problems seem rather more likely to occur
to people who are out for a 'joy ride' (or however you want to
describe it). Pretty much everyone I know uses the public transport
system to get from A-to-B - I'm the exception!

OSI problem auto-corrected
 

MIG wrote

It just looks like the system was charging completely the wrong fares
to everyone and they couldn't miss it.

So I don't infer that the inexcusable situation where people are
repeatedly getting overcharged, because the system strings separate
resolved journeys into one and then decides that the resulting
journey
is too long and splits it into unresolved/unstarted journeys, is
likely to be addressed in such a helpful way.

But we have already had a automatic refund reported on this NG (2 days
after the poster had called the helpline IIRC).

Thus post-processing may be a regular item, especially when the current
gate logic cannot detect an overcharge.

--
Mike D

OSI problem auto-corrected
 

On Feb 28, 7:36*pm, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:

MIG wrote

It just looks like the system was charging completely the wrong fares
to everyone and they couldn't miss it.

So I don't infer that the inexcusable situation where people are
repeatedly getting overcharged, because the system strings separate
resolved journeys into one and then decides that the resulting
journey
is too long and splits it into unresolved/unstarted journeys, is
likely to be addressed in such a helpful way.

But we have already had a automatic refund reported on this NG (2 days
after the poster had called the helpline IIRC).

Thus post-processing may be a regular item, especially when the current
gate logic cannot detect an overcharge.

See my comment downthread - I had it happen to me in April '09.

(FWIW, I travelled with someone from Southwark station to Stratford on
the Jubilee line, passed through the 'internal gateline' outside the
Jubilee platforms, went with them up to the Great Eastern platform and
saw them off on their train, then went back through the 'internal
gateline' back to Southwark station. I was uncertain as to whether
passing the 'internal gateline' would end my first journey and restart
my second - I thought it might well not, and indeed it didn't, as the
internal gateline basically appeared to be set up in 'interchange
mode' just like all the standalone validators at Stratford station
that are within the fare-paid area, i.e. the main gateline. But before
I got round to asking for my dosh back, the email came through. N.B.
the 'internal gateline' at Stratford appears to have been
decommissioned now.)

OSI problem auto-corrected
 

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

On Feb 28, 9:44 am, MIG wrote:

On 28 Feb, 08:32, Walter Briscoe wrote:

On 24/02/10, I entered Moorgate at 16:30 and left Euston at 16:43.
I entered Euston Square at 16:49 and left Moorgate at 17:10.
I was charged 5.80 for Euston Square entry and 6.00 for Moorgate
exit. I had already capped travel in Z1-2 on my registered
Oystercard. On 28 February 2010 03:22:49, TfL sent me an email
"... Due to an operational issue, we calculate that you are due a
refund of 11.80. This is now ready for pick-up at Moorgate. ..."
I am a little impressed.
Weekend mornings are good times for Oyster help on 0845 330 9876.
I was unable to get an explanation for the systemic failure.

This isn't the typical OSI problem that people have talked about
though, is it?

It just looks like the system was charging completely the wrong fares
to everyone and they couldn't miss it.

See my reply downthread - my suspicion is this is some sort of problem
with Moorgate being the starting and finishing station to the overall
journey. It's an odd one though. Do note that I'm not saying this to
excuse what's gone on, with these problems I'm just trying to seek to
understand what has actually happened. But I don't think it's a case
of the system being configured to charge the wrong fares per se.

So I don't infer that the inexcusable situation where people are
repeatedly getting overcharged, because the system strings separate
resolved journeys into one and then decides that the resulting journey
is too long and splits it into unresolved/unstarted journeys, is
likely to be addressed in such a helpful way.

I don't think the last paragraph is an accurate reflection of the
actual mechanism at play - the common issue is that separate journeys
are considered to be one continuing journey from the Oyster system
POV, and the problem occurs when that complete journey is not resolved
because it times out - in other words saying that several *resolved*
journeys are being strung together to make an unresolved/unstarted
journey is not accurate (IMO). That's not to say the passenger was
doing anything wrong as they were simply following the instructions
for touching-in and out.

I do hope that such problems can be addressed somehow - I dunno how
much flexibility there is to change things, and how much of the
underlying infrastructure w.r.t. the Oyster system is set in stone.

All I will say is that such problems seem rather more likely to
occur
to people who are out for a 'joy ride' (or however you want to
describe it). Pretty much everyone I know uses the public transport
system to get from A-to-B - I'm the exception!

Surely the first thing the system should do if a journey involving an OSI
times out is to check if undoing the OSI assumption makes the journey
appear logical? In the OP's example the clue is that what it thinks is one
journey starts and ends at the same station!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

OSI problem auto-corrected
 

On Feb 28, 9:43*pm, wrote:

(Mizter T) wrote:
On Feb 28, 9:44 am, MIG wrote:

On 28 Feb, 08:32, Walter Briscoe wrote:

On 24/02/10, I entered Moorgate at 16:30 and left Euston at 16:43.
I entered Euston Square at 16:49 and left Moorgate at 17:10.
I was charged 5.80 for Euston Square entry and 6.00 for Moorgate
exit. I had already capped travel in Z1-2 on my registered
Oystercard. On 28 February 2010 03:22:49, TfL sent me an email
"... Due to an operational issue, we calculate that you are due a
refund of 11.80. This is now ready for pick-up at Moorgate. ..."
I am a little impressed.
Weekend mornings are good times for Oyster help on
0845 330 9876.
I was unable to get an explanation for the systemic failure.

This isn't the typical OSI problem that people have talked about
though, is it?

It just looks like the system was charging completely the wrong fares
to everyone and they couldn't miss it.

See my reply downthread - my suspicion is this is some sort of problem
with Moorgate being the starting and finishing station to the overall
journey. It's an odd one though. Do note that I'm not saying this to
excuse what's gone on, with these problems I'm just trying to seek to
understand what has actually happened. But I don't think it's a case
of the system being configured to charge the wrong fares per se.

So I don't infer that the inexcusable situation where people are
repeatedly getting overcharged, because the system strings separate
resolved journeys into one and then decides that the resulting journey
is too long and splits it into unresolved/unstarted journeys, is
likely to be addressed in such a helpful way.

I don't think the last paragraph is an accurate reflection of the
actual mechanism at play - the common issue is that separate journeys
are considered to be one continuing journey from the Oyster system
POV, and the problem occurs when that complete journey is not resolved
because it times out - in other words saying that several *resolved*
journeys are being strung together to make an unresolved/unstarted
journey is not accurate (IMO). That's not to say the passenger was
doing anything wrong as they were simply following the instructions
for touching-in and out.

I do hope that such problems can be addressed somehow - I dunno
how much flexibility there is to change things, and how much of
the underlying infrastructure w.r.t. the Oyster system is set in stone.

All I will say is that such problems seem rather more likely to
occur to people who are out for a 'joy ride' (or however you want
to describe it). Pretty much everyone I know uses the public
transport system to get from A-to-B - I'm the exception!

Surely the first thing the system should do if a journey involving an OSI
times out is to check if undoing the OSI assumption makes the journey
appear logical? In the OP's example the clue is that what it thinks is one
journey starts and ends at the same station!

I'm not sure the system architecture has the capacity to untangle
things like that - ultimately though I dunno, I'm just an observer.

OSI problem auto-corrected
 

On 28 Feb, 22:47, Mizter T wrote:
On Feb 28, 9:43*pm, wrote:





(Mizter T) wrote:
On Feb 28, 9:44 am, MIG wrote:

On 28 Feb, 08:32, Walter Briscoe wrote:

On 24/02/10, I entered Moorgate at 16:30 and left Euston at 16:43..
I entered Euston Square at 16:49 and left Moorgate at 17:10.
I was charged 5.80 for Euston Square entry and 6.00 for Moorgate
exit. I had already capped travel in Z1-2 on my registered
Oystercard. On 28 February 2010 03:22:49, TfL sent me an email
"... Due to an operational issue, we calculate that you are due a
refund of 11.80. This is now ready for pick-up at Moorgate. ..."
I am a little impressed.
Weekend mornings are good times for Oyster help on
0845 330 9876.
I was unable to get an explanation for the systemic failure.

This isn't the typical OSI problem that people have talked about
though, is it?

It just looks like the system was charging completely the wrong fares
to everyone and they couldn't miss it.

See my reply downthread - my suspicion is this is some sort of problem
with Moorgate being the starting and finishing station to the overall
journey. It's an odd one though. Do note that I'm not saying this to
excuse what's gone on, with these problems I'm just trying to seek to
understand what has actually happened. But I don't think it's a case
of the system being configured to charge the wrong fares per se.

So I don't infer that the inexcusable situation where people are
repeatedly getting overcharged, because the system strings separate
resolved journeys into one and then decides that the resulting journey
is too long and splits it into unresolved/unstarted journeys, is
likely to be addressed in such a helpful way.

I don't think the last paragraph is an accurate reflection of the
actual mechanism at play - the common issue is that separate journeys
are considered to be one continuing journey from the Oyster system
POV, and the problem occurs when that complete journey is not resolved
because it times out - in other words saying that several *resolved*
journeys are being strung together to make an unresolved/unstarted
journey is not accurate (IMO). That's not to say the passenger was
doing anything wrong as they were simply following the instructions
for touching-in and out.

I do hope that such problems can be addressed somehow - I dunno
how much flexibility there is to change things, and how much of
the underlying infrastructure w.r.t. the Oyster system is set in stone.

All I will say is that such problems seem rather more likely to
occur to people who are out for a 'joy ride' (or however you want
to describe it). Pretty much everyone I know uses the public
transport system to get from A-to-B - I'm the exception!

Surely the first thing the system should do if a journey involving an OSI
times out is to check if undoing the OSI assumption makes the journey
appear logical? In the OP's example the clue is that what it thinks is one
journey starts and ends at the same station!

I'm not sure the system architecture has the capacity to untangle
things like that - ultimately though I dunno, I'm just an observer.

The more I think about it, the more the excuses don't wash. Think
about what actually happens.

A punter makes a number of journeys, always touching in and out
according to the rules, all journeys resolved. The system "knows"
exactly where the punter has been the whole time. All touches are
recorded.

Then the system actively intervenes and deems the whole series of
journeys to be one journey.

Then the system actively intervenes again and splits that one journey
into two unstarted/unresolved journeys.

So, armed with a full record of the punter's entirely legitimate
touchings in and out and there being nothing unresolved, the system
disregards this and actively resets the punter's status to one of
being liable for extra cash, which is automatically extracted.

That might excused as bad programming for a few days, but to continue
operating that way is fraud.

OSI problem auto-corrected
 

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

Surely the first thing the system should do if a journey involving an
OSI times out is to check if undoing the OSI assumption makes the
journey appear logical? In the OP's example the clue is that what it
thinks is one journey starts and ends at the same station!

I'm not sure the system architecture has the capacity to untangle
things like that - ultimately though I dunno, I'm just an observer.

Isn't it high time it did, at least to some extent, though?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

OSI problem auto-corrected
 

Mizter T wrote

journey is not accurate (IMO). That's not to say the passenger was
doing anything wrong as they were simply following the instructions
for touching-in and out.

I do hope that such problems can be addressed somehow - I dunno how
much flexibility there is to change things, and how much of the
underlying infrastructure w.r.t. the Oyster system is set in stone.

All I will say is that such problems seem rather more likely to occur
to people who are out for a 'joy ride' (or however you want to
describe it). Pretty much everyone I know uses the public transport
system to get from A-to-B - I'm the exception!

But the problem was first reported for a ordinary journey but a "quick
return" (Bow Church and return from Bow Road after picking up a shoe
repair IIRC).

So if there is a legitimate return journey that, on the return, uses a
different set of barriers at say Paddington NR or Liverpool Street NR
or King's Cross St. Pancras (LU) you could generate a fail every time
without being a joy rider provided the timeout occured well after
reentering the system.

Would Cannon Street to King's Cross St. Pancras Met (LU), return by
same route but King's Cross St. Pancras Northern line entrance do ? If
you had to return to Monument due to the closing time of Cannon Street
it would be still less clear that it was two journeys.

--
Mike D

OSI problem auto-corrected
 

MIG wrote:

On 28 Feb, 23:33, "solar penguin"
wrote:
MIG wrote:

The more I think about it, the more the excuses don't wash. Think
about what actually happens.

A punter makes a number of journeys, always touching in and out
according to the rules, all journeys resolved. The system "knows"
exactly where the punter has been the whole time. All touches are
recorded.

Then the system actively intervenes and deems the whole series of
journeys to be one journey.

Unfortunately, that's not what happens. It's not a case of the
system _actively_ intervening to make them one journey. Just the
opposite. The punter travels around, touching in and out, but the
system _passively_ thinks of all this as one journey by default,
unless something actively intervenes (e.g. a time out or touching
out at a non-OSI station) and splits it into a whole series of
journeys.

Well, not really. When one touches out, the first journey is resolved
and a fare is calculated. This doesn't wait for a timeout.

Only when you're touching out at a non-OSI station. If you touch out at
an OSI, the fare is calculated but the journey is _not_ fully resolved
until the OSI's interchange time limit is up.

This topsy-turvey machine logic goes against good old human common sense
which thinks of the journey as over as soon as we touch out. That's the
problem.


When one touches in again, the system records a touch in. It can
surely only be defined as a continuation after some calculation
involving time and place of last touch out, so this must logically be
after the touch in.

All touches are recorded, and prove the punter to have followed the
rules, but these records are disregarded in order to charge a false
fare.

I am not interested in the excuses for how it works. It's absolutely
clear to the system that no journey is unresolved, and yet that's what
is charged for. It's fraud, whatever the mechanism.


I agree. And I'm not making excuses for how it works. (I'm the last
person who'd make excuses for Oyster!) I'm just trying to describe the
problem as accurately as possible, and that means getting to grips with
the looking-glass logic the system uses.

--
_
___ ___ | | __ _ _ _
(_-/ _ \| |/ _` || '_|
/__/\___/|_|\__,_||_| _
_ __ ___ _ _ __ _ _ _ (_) _ _
| '_ \/ -_)| ' \ / _` || || || || ' \
| .__/\___||_||_|\__, | \_,_||_||_||_|
|_| |___/

OSI problem auto-corrected
 

In message of Sun, 28 Feb 2010
14:26:18 in uk.transport.london, Walter Briscoe
writes
In message
.com of Sun, 28 Feb 2010 01:44:00 in uk.transport.london, MIG
writes
On 28 Feb, 08:32, Walter Briscoe wrote:
On 24/02/10, I entered Moorgate at 16:30 and left Euston at 16:43.
I entered Euston Square at 16:49 and left Moorgate at 17:10.
I was charged 5.80 for Euston Square entry and 6.00 for Moorgate exit.
I had already capped travel in Z1-2 on my registered Oystercard.
On 28 February 2010 03:22:49, TfL sent me an email "... Due to an
operational issue, we calculate that you are due a refund of 11.80.
This is now ready for pick-up at Moorgate. ..."
I am a little impressed.
Weekend mornings are good times for Oyster help on 0845 330 9876.
I was unable to get an explanation for the systemic failure.

This isn't the typical OSI problem that people have talked about
though, is it?


Below, I show a second scenario where Oyster does as well as can be
expected. Can somebody else construct a third which Oyster does not
auto-correct, given the opportunity to do so?

It just looks like the system was charging completely the wrong fares
to everyone and they couldn't miss it.

So I don't infer that the inexcusable situation where people are
repeatedly getting overcharged, because the system strings separate
resolved journeys into one and then decides that the resulting journey
is too long and splits it into unresolved/unstarted journeys, is
likely to be addressed in such a helpful way.

I agree I showed a failure that has been addressed less frequently.
It is also inexcusable because there is no automatic mechanism for
charging the correct fare to an unregistered card.

It is harder to demonstrate the other sort of failure.
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/12421.aspx (obscurely)
documents those time limits. You can also get there by navigating
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/, "Tickets", "What is Oyster?", "Pay as you go"
and search for "Maximum journey times".

It is harder to construct a charging failure involving an OSI without
doing something "perverse" since the Within Zone 1 or 2 limit was upped
to 90 minutes.

I suppose I could do something like

[snipped fanciful journey]

I am afraid it happened again.

On 02/03/10, I entered at Moorgate at 09:05, exited Kings Cross (Nthn,
Vic, Picc Lines) at 10:06, entered Kings Cross (Met, Circle, H&C) at
10:19 and exited Barbican at 10:41. As expected, I was charged for one
normal entry and exit between Moorgate and Kings Cross (Nthn, Vic, Picc
Lines), an incomplete journey starting at Kings Cross (Met, Circle, H&C)
and an unstarted journey at Barbican.

A refund notification email was sent at 06 March 2010 03:21:57.
The effect of it is that I was charged for a Zone 1 journey starting at
09:05 and ending at 10:41 - a 96 minute journey where the maximum
journey time is 90 minutes. I am happy with that charge, but unhappy
with the details.

I intend to email to get an
explanation of the systemic problem. If the answer is unsatisfactory, I
will take it to London Travelwatch.
--
Walter Briscoe